This might sound a bit silly...

[Bottle]

[quote name='Meenie' post='978541' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:36 PM']Hi Bottle,

It sounds like you and me are in the same boat, maybe at different ends but definately the same vessel![/quote]
Cool!! Glad I'm not the only one trying this stuff out - there's a few peeps on here just on the right side of insanity

[quote name='Meenie' post='978541' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:36 PM']I am playing A,D,A,D,G for Beat the red light (they dont let us in churches!)[/quote]
Hehehe, but that's some serious down-tuning (lemme guess: a BEADG set with the B and the E strings both de-tuned a tone? So it's a perfect fourth A>D, then a fifth D>A', then perfect fourths for the rest - hmmm, power chords anyone? )

[quote name='Meenie' post='978541' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:36 PM']I was struggling with getting enough power for the lows and also lugging a ton of cabs about with me, my solution is on order as we speak...

1XBarefaced Big One cab
1x1k power amp
1xSansamp bass driver pre amp

I will let you know how it works when ive got it all delivered and tested out.


Cheers,

G.[/quote]
Yep, that's some serious hardware as well. I've been looking at different cab combinations, and I've been finding that 4x10/1x15 is not great running full-range, but doable with a crossover - but then I [i]am[/i] tri-amping the entire rig

HTH, Ian

PS Good luck with the Big One! I myself am waiting for a Compact on the Tour - watch this space

[Bottle]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='978553' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:45 PM']Wouldn't it be a [i]tenor[/i] bass if it was A-D-G-C (not the octave-down version, obviously)? I thought a [i]piccolo[/i] bass was a whole octave higher than standard.[/quote]
Well, I've just been looking at Wikipedia, and the consensus is that a [i]tenor[/i] bass is a five string bass tuned EADGC (so, standard range plus a high C string), whereas a [i]piccolo[/i] bass is a four string bass tuned EADG a whole octave above standard tuning (i.e. the same as the bottom four strings on a guitar)


HTH, Ian

Edited October 5, 2010 by Bottle

[EdwardHimself]

Nice rig. I have both my basses tuned a step lower then the "standard" so for the 5, that means ADGCF. It's great because it means you can play a load of different songs on it and go all the way down to A if needs be.

Edited October 5, 2010 by EdwardHimself

[endorka]

[quote name='Bottle' post='976845' date='Oct 4 2010, 11:12 AM']Secondly, needs some serious power in the rig to articulate the low A - just sounds a bit muddy through the 4x10 alone, in fact everything below the E (7th fret, Low A string) doesn't really have the definition I was perhaps looking for at the start of the exercise. Just wondering if it's the hardware or not (passive P/J bass, maybe could benefit from active electronics?) - pups could be the weak link in the chain. [/quote]

You could replace the pickups & strings, and debate about passive vs. active electronics, but none of this will affect the potential weak link in the end of your chain: your speakers.

I'm guessing, but I would suspect that none of them will get anywhere near handling the fundamental frequency of your low A. Many of them probably won't even accurately reproduce the fundamental of a normal E string. They may do this for the normal A string, however. Or maybe not.

Check the specifications of your speaker cabs to determine the lowest frequency they can accurately reproduce. I believe the usual cut off point for this measurement is when they pass over -6 db of normal output. Take manufacturers claims with a pinch of salt!

For reference, here are the fundamental frequencies of interest;

A0 = 28Hz
B0 = 31Hz
E1 = 41Hz (normal E string)
A1 = 55Hz

I've used my ears to measure this effect on some of my own speakers; many of them start to lose the fundamenal at Bb1, i.e. 58Hz, including a 1x15" speaker!

I don't think I've ever heard a low B properly reproduced on a bass amp/speaker combination. From some PA systems, yes. From some studio montors, yes. But never from a bassamp.

But I am prepared to be corrected!

Jennifer

[Bottle]

[quote name='endorka' post='978948' date='Oct 5 2010, 10:43 PM']You could replace the pickups & strings, and debate about passive vs. active electronics, but none of this will affect the potential weak link in the end of your chain: your speakers.

I'm guessing, but I would suspect that none of them will get anywhere near handling the fundamental frequency of your low A. Many of them probably won't even accurately reproduce the fundamental of a normal E string. They may do this for the normal A string, however. Or maybe not.

Check the specifications of your speaker cabs to determine the lowest frequency they can accurately reproduce. I believe the usual cut off point for this measurement is when they pass over -6 db of normal output. Take manufacturers claims with a pinch of salt!

For reference, here are the fundamental frequencies of interest;

A0 = 28Hz
B0 = 31Hz
E1 = 41Hz (normal E string)
A1 = 55Hz

I've used my ears to measure this effect on some of my own speakers; many of them start to lose the fundamenal at Bb1, i.e. 58Hz, including a 1x15" speaker!

I don't think I've ever heard a low B properly reproduced on a bass amp/speaker combination. From some PA systems, yes. From some studio montors, yes. But never from a bassamp.

But I am prepared to be corrected!

Jennifer[/quote]
Thanks for the post, Jennifer!

Just been onto the EBS website - [url="http://www.bass.se/"]EBS[/url]

Specs for the 4x10 (this is running through the crossover, mid/high filter HPF at ~180Hz) - 70Hz to 18kHz
Specs for the 1x15 (this is low-passed through the crossover - around 150-200Hz, tweeter rolled off) - 50Hz to 18kHz
Dunno about the 1x12s - pair of fairly mediocre PA cabs - Maplin specials

Unlcear whether these figures are the -6dB points - safe to assume they are.

So to answer your question, yep, I'd struggle to reproduce the fundamental of the A1 i.e. an octave above my open A0, which is no surprise . All I'm hearing then are the overtones.

HTH, Ian

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='endorka' post='978948' date='Oct 5 2010, 10:43 PM']Many of them probably won't even accurately reproduce the fundamental of a normal E string.[/quote]

This bit tells you how important the fundamental is to the sound: not at all. You might notice a high pass set to 100hz (maybe not if you are used to sealed 8x10s), but at 30hz, I doubt anyone would notice.

[Bottle]

Pretty sure Alex C wrote a post (maybe in the Wiki) about fundamental frequency vs harmonic series that determined the note we heard (psycho-acoustics). Or it might have been on TalkBass - can't remember, but I'm sure someone will be along to point me at it

IIRC the conclusion was that reproducing the fundamental wasn't as important as reproducing the harmonic series accurately.

Anyway, just remembered this, so feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

HTH, Ian

[Adrenochrome]

You're bang on with the fundamentals v overtones.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Adrenochrome

[endorka]

[quote name='Bottle' post='979148' date='Oct 6 2010, 09:56 AM']Pretty sure Alex C wrote a post (maybe in the Wiki) about fundamental frequency vs harmonic series that determined the note we heard (psycho-acoustics). Or it might have been on TalkBass - can't remember, but I'm sure someone will be along to point me at it

IIRC the conclusion was that reproducing the fundamental wasn't as important as reproducing the harmonic series accurately.[/quote]

Sure - even if the fundamental is missing, if the rest of the harmonic series is in place, the brain "fills in" the missing fundamental for you, and you perceive the note correctly. It's a psychoacoustic trick, in effect.

Lots of bassists back in the 60's / 70's, even 80's played in the midrange of the instrument, I suspect because they either explicitly or implicitly released this, especially on the poorer gear they had, and played the register of the instrument that sounded fullest to them.

However, I would dispute the assertion that the fundamental isn't important. It may or may not be; what I can guarantee is that a low B reproduced with the fundamental sounds different to the low reproduced without it, despite the above psychoacoustic trick.

I remember the first time I heard the low B on my bass reproduced accurately on powerful studio monitors. Amazing - like the low notes on a church organ. I realised at that point that these low notes are to be used with caution, as on most equipment their true depth will not be reproduced, but on a few systems they will, and the effect to the listener in each case will be very different.

If you want your basslines to come across consistently, you must take this into account.

Jennifer