ingenious way of triggering effects needed

[Scotticus]

I've got an unusual situation here that has me totally stumped, hoping there's a gadget guru on here who might be able to nudge me in the right direction..

I play bass for a London-based female-fronted alt metal band called The Mariana Hollow. Here's a link if you're curious about what it sounds like:
[url="http://www.themarianahollow.com"]www.themarianahollow.com[/url]

Essentially, what I'm looking for is a way to trigger effects on stage (mainly dirty drives, a choice of 2 would do) without needing to carry shed loads of gear around and without needing to stomp on pedals. Here's the background as to why I'm trying to perform this puzzler...

Basically, I'm totally blind. Over time, I've realised that when I'm on stage surrounded by music blaring from amps and wedges, with a plug in one ear and an in-ear monitor in the other, my usual senses of spacial awareness become about as affective as a chocolate teapot. So while I like to have a bit of a jiggle and throw some hair about (that's a rock jiggle, not a Mum at a wedding jiggle), the overwhelming urge is to keep my feet very firmly planted in one safe spot as a center of gravity/reference point.

Hopefully, all that background explains why I'm sh*t at stomping on pedals accurately. I'm sure it's a practice thing to an extent, but I'm also sure that there's always going to be a bit more room for error when you're trying to step on a tiny button mid-headbang if you can't see what you're aiming at, and with the band starting to get some proper attention, I'm trying to find a solution that goes some way toward iliminating the possibility of me making an arse up of epic proportions.

Any and all questions, thoughts, suggestions, and offensive blind gags welcome

Scott

Edited September 5, 2010 by Scotticus

[Matty]

what if you used a relay controlled loop, but rather than a stomp switch, used a toggle that you could have mounted on your bass?

You'd have control over your sound, but the compromise would mean moving your hand away from strings to turn on the distortion.
It wouldn't be too difficult to setup, and im sure most pedal builders could do it for you.

[Dood]

hey Scott! I'm typing on my PDA at the mo' so will reply properly later today. Just saw the band name. I added you guys on Myspace a while back. I like the band! Anyway, I'm sure there's a solution. Do you guys use sequencing / midi click tracks? My band are planning to sequence effect / amp / scene changes by midi.. it's easy to switch pedals to wth the right gear, leaving you free to rock out!

how about having another band member switch for you? i've even seen John Petrucci's guitar tech come on stage & work his Wah pedal whilst he played a solo! All staged mind, but still looked cool!

Dan.

[joegarcia]

[quote name='Matty' post='945808' date='Sep 5 2010, 01:36 AM']what if you used a relay controlled loop, but rather than a stomp switch, used a toggle that you could have mounted on your bass?

You'd have control over your sound, but the compromise would mean moving your hand away from strings to turn on the distortion.
It wouldn't be too difficult to setup, and im sure most pedal builders could do it for you.[/quote]

Yea, I saw a bassist in a wheelchair do this and it seemed to work really well.

[bobbass4k]

I'd give max (silentfly on here) an email. His website's [url="http://sfxsound.co.uk"]here[/url], I'd imagine he'll have some ideas for a custom system he could build you, I remember he built an audio tuner for a blind bassist a while back (which may have been you thinking about it)

[Dood]

[quote name='bobbass4k' post='945821' date='Sep 5 2010, 03:10 AM']I'd give max (silentfly on here) an email. His website's [url="http://sfxsound.co.uk"]here[/url], I'd imagine he'll have some ideas for a custom system he could build you, I remember he built an audio tuner for a blind bassist a while back (which may have been you thinking about it)[/quote]


Good call! Max may have some additional thoughts - and certainly the ability to turn an idea in to a great piece of gear! - I keep trying to think of things I need, in order to get one from Max as his stuff looks great!

[Dad3353]

Train your dog to do it..?

[ironside1966]

May be a Wii or bluetooth controler in your pocket or switch stuck on your bass.

[Scotticus]

Dad3353 - I send the dog off to gather supplies of heroin and hoes while I'm on stage... nil points!

Dood - aha, small world on here isn't it, glad you're diggin' the band! We started off life playing everything to a click, and still tend to for the first few public airings of new tunes until the nerves have worn off, but we don't use it consistently enough nowadays for me to develop a system that's reliant on it.

Bobbass4k - yup, that tuner build was indeed for me. The thing is built like a tank, Max is the man.

Having read the replies so far, I'm agreeing that sending relays direct from the bass might be the way to go. I started off running with the idea of switches to flick with the thumb of my right hand (mounted above each pickup perhaps). After a bit of practice though, I reckon latching buttons of some sort would be easier, whacking down on something feels more definite, and I seem to be able to hit consistently with my thumb no matter which finger I lead with, probably a good sign.

Time to email Silentfly methinks, but if you happen to read this and have ideas we haven't covered yet, keep 'em coming.

Cheers all
Scott

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Dad3353' post='946462' date='Sep 5 2010, 06:10 PM']Train your dog to do it..?[/quote]


Should have seen that coming.


Sorry, good luck on your search.

[Dood]

Just reminded me! Audio Technika used to do a wireless system that had a button you could mount on your bass connected to the transmitter. You'd then be able to switch channels on say an amp by connecting to a socket on the receiver. I have no idea if they still have a similar system these days - but wireless switching, it's something to think about for sure.

[Scotticus]

[quote name='dood' post='946629' date='Sep 5 2010, 08:27 PM']Just reminded me! Audio Technika used to do a wireless system that had a button you could mount on your bass connected to the transmitter. You'd then be able to switch channels on say an amp by connecting to a socket on the receiver. I have no idea if they still have a similar system these days - but wireless switching, it's something to think about for sure.[/quote]
Beauty, I've not come across these yet but they sound like another avenue worthy of investigation.
Let the Googling commence...

[cheddatom]

could you not just get your drummer to switch pedals for you with his left foot? I have a pedal board next to me when I drum (but it's for drums).

[Silent Fly]

[quote name='Scotticus' post='945801' date='Sep 5 2010, 01:10 AM']Essentially, what I'm looking for is a way to trigger effects on stage (mainly dirty drives, a choice of 2 would do) without needing to carry shed loads of gear around and without needing to stomp on pedals. (...)[/quote]
My first instinct would be a pocket size (e.g. attached to your belt) MIDI controller.

If you don't use wireless between your bass and the amp, the MIDI signal could be carried through a cable that runs parallel to the bass signal cable.

On the other end of the connection, you could put a MIDI-controlled effect switcher like the [url="http://glab.com.pl/midi_4xloop_en"]G-LAB M4L[/url] or the [url="http://glab.com.pl/midi_2xloop_en"]G-LAB M2L[/url].

If you use wireless, the connection between belt unit and MIDI-switcher can be done with bluetooth via a custom receiver and transmitter. Not exacly a walk in the park but it can be done.

To summarise:
- Wires: [i]Belt-unit, MIDI cable, MIDI-switcher, pedals[/i]
- Wireless: [i]Belt-unit with bluetooth [bluetooth connection] bluetooth-receiver with MIDI-out, MIDI-switcher, pedals[/i]

If you use wires, and the number is pedals is limited, it is possible build a remote controller that is not MIDI-based. In other words, the remote controller "talks" to the remote switcher using a non-standard system.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Silent Fly

[throwoff]

Is there anyway the effects could be be built into a bass?

The just turned on and off with microswitches mounted to the front?

[cheddatom]

you could use a couple of door bells to control a looper - can't be too hard.

[Scotticus]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='946864' date='Sep 6 2010, 08:20 AM']could you not just get your drummer to switch pedals for you with his left foot? I have a pedal board next to me when I drum (but it's for drums).[/quote]

It's a thought Cheddatom. My reservations are that he's already singing backup vocals, playing very involved parts (often on unfamiliar kits due to promoters down here insisting on kit shares), and I wouldn't want to add another pressure to his performance.
Plus, to be honest, there's probably a daft streak of wanting to be totally self-sufficient creeping in somewhere.

Cheers for the thought though...
Scott

[Scotticus]

[quote name='throwoff' post='947011' date='Sep 6 2010, 11:05 AM']Is there anyway the effects could be be built into a bass?

The just turned on and off with microswitches mounted to the front?[/quote]
Yah, that would probably be the most convenient solution. Trouble is, while I'm not a huge gearhead, I am a horrible sound snob. Anything small enough to build directly into a bass would either cost an arm and a leg, or be cutting corners sound-wise and that'd annoy the hell out of me after a few hours.

Btw, I'm currently plonking a Corvette $$ 5 string and am happy to be doing so. Fingers crossed that you click with yours when she arrives man.

Scott

[Scotticus]

[quote name='Silent Fly' post='946988' date='Sep 6 2010, 10:44 AM']To summarise:
- Wires: [i]Belt-unit, MIDI cable, MIDI-switcher, pedals[/i]
- Wireless: [i]Belt-unit with bluetooth [bluetooth connection] bluetooth-receiver with MIDI-out, MIDI-switcher, pedals[/i]

If you use wires, and the number is pedals is limited, it is possible build a remote controller that is not MIDI-based. In other words, the remote controller "talks" to the remote switcher using a non-standard system.[/quote]
Hey Silent Fly, glad you've replied
Having read your ideas, a few potential flaws spring to mind:
- I play a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0, so can't switch straight to a dirty channel via MIDI or relay as it's a 1 single channel head.
- The above is why I had some sort of modification to stomp boxes in mind instead.
- Money is reasonably tight. I can justify splashing out on customised stuff if it needs to be built, because labour and the skill to do so come at a price, but my Missus would have a fit if I needed to buy much more standard gear

So, thinking along a totally different line for a moment, how good are you at actual hardware design?
I just had a brief vision of a chunky metal box-shaped housing that's big enough to accomodate a single pedal on a base plate. The top half of the enclosure could be slightly raised, perhaps with a spring at each corner, so it can be depressed by being stomped on.
Here's the genius stroke. On the underside of the lid of this gadget, there'd be some sort of adjustable clamp or grip, so I could place whatever pedal was currently rocking my world inside the housing, and align the clamp mechanism to grip the stomp button of that pedal.
This way, when I stomp with my giant clumsy boot of doom, I'd have the whole surface area of the top of the unit to aim for, rather than a tiny button. There'd be no chance of knocking the settings of the pedal if I stomped slightly off the mark, because it would be safely under the lid of the housing. And, I'd be able to adapt the unit to be used with whatever gear necessary so it'd have a longer life.

It's very different from the vague techno ideas I had floating around when I started this topic, but do you reckon it could be done? More importantly, do you reckon it could be done and leave you with less of a headache than all the bluetooth stuff? I already owe you a box of painkillers for the tuner

Cheers
Scott

[tayste_2000]

A company a while back did a midi trigger that stuck to the back of the neck of your bass, hook that up to an M9 or M13 and you have all your switching done there.

[cheddatom]

If you want a purely mechanical solution to turn one pedal off and on using a huge footplate instead of a small footswitch - i'd imagine that would be very easy to do. I got the impression you had more than one pedal to turn on and off?

If it was just varying levels of dirt you wanted, perhaps an LS-2 always on with one loop going through your dirt pedal, and a volume pedal after than. The volume pedal is all the way off for a clean tone, and the more you rock it forward, the more dirt you hear. Attach a huge peice of wood to the volume pedal and it should be easy enough.

[Silent Fly]

Sorry Scott - I probably wasn't very clear in my description.

By “MIDI switcher” I meant a unit that includes/excludes one or more pedals from the signal path depending on the MIDI message it receives.

The remote control would be a micro MIDI pedalboard in belt-clip format.

Essentially, your pedals can be fixed to a shelf mounted in a rack case. In the same rack case you can put the “MIDI-switcher”. A series of patch cables connect the pedals to the “MIDI-switcher”.

The bass signal would go in the “MIDI-switcher” that manages to effects. The output of the switcher goes to the amp input. The “MIDI-switcher” does no control or intereact with the amp.

If you don't use wireless for the bass signal, Bluetooth is not necessary. Moreover, if you don’t have any other MIDI device, the remote control and the pedals switcher can be built to use a non-MIDI system.

Regarding the mechanical solution it sounds a little bit heavy. I also doubt it would cost less than an electronic solution.

[Bloodaxe]

Going back to your Big Metal Box with a special bracket idea... Why not have a big metal box with a hinged lid, one switch and two jack sockets? Just an overgrown bypass switch. With two patch leads you could connect any effect you wanted. You'd need a couple of springs or some stiff foam to hold it slightly open, and the switch could be either a conventional stomp type or a microswitch.

Pete.

[EdwardHimself]

I agree with the idea of getting another band member to change fx for you. My friend who was the guitar player in this band we were in had a small form of Cerebal Palsy so he wasn't so good with hitting the pedals. I didn't really need to change fx on my bass so i just did it for him. Nowdays the singer in his band does the FX changing on his guitar stompbox deely. I think it's a good idea, i mean what else are they doing

[D2TS]

you could have the pedals you trigger less (that are either on or off for an entire song so only need triggering at the start) mounted on something like a particularly sturdy music stand so you could operate them with your hands, then have the ones you have to trigger mid-song on the floor beside it, so there's less pedals to hit by accident. You could then increase the surface area of those pedals with a simple modification. Some sort of spring-loaded bar running horizontally across the stomp box perhaps.

Or you could have pads with a certain number or size of studs on the floor in front of each pedal, which (if you played barefoot perhaps) would help you to quickly identify which one is which. Sort of like a very basic form of foot braille. Or simply pads of different material in front of each one (carpet, wood, metal, rubber etc.) that again if you played barefoot would be a quick way of identifying each pedal.