Bassassin Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 [quote name='jammie17' post='108666' date='Dec 23 2007, 06:57 PM']Would do you well to read your own reply.... [/quote] What - like you did? I think that to suggest further discourse with you is pointless, because you have not managed to understand anything I've said, or my reasons for saying it - even when another forum member has taken the trouble to try to explain it to you - is a singularly well-reasoned response. What's the point of my attempting to respond to a lot of made-up rubbish that's nothing to do with anything I've actually said? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammie17 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 [quote name='Bassassin' post='108680' date='Dec 23 2007, 07:38 PM']What - like you did? I think that to suggest further discourse with you is pointless, because you have not managed to understand anything I've said, or my reasons for saying it - even when another forum member has taken the trouble to try to explain it to you - is a singularly well-reasoned response. What's the point of my attempting to respond to a lot of made-up rubbish that's nothing to do with anything I've actually said? J.[/quote] Bassassin... How about we just move on mate....you and I have different views on this and I respect YOU but disagree with your views.... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammie17 Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 [quote name='Waldo' post='108672' date='Dec 23 2007, 07:09 PM']Hehe, that's better [/quote] I'm the first, to correct a response done in error....most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 [quote name='jammie17' post='108685' date='Dec 23 2007, 07:48 PM']Bassassin... How about we just move on mate....you and I have different views on this and I respect YOU but disagree with your views.... Jim[/quote] One last try... You see - I don't think we do have particularly different views - I didn't think it necessary to say that I absolutely DO NOT support the manufacture or sale of counterfeit anything, basses, watches, bogroll, anything! I don't support illegal downloading, either - but that's a very different debate that doesn't bear much comparison to this. I collect vintage Japanese basses & guitars - many of the 70s instruments were copies of US designs. This era of guitar manufacturing history actually shaped much of the industry today, worldwide - Fender, for example, started manufacturing in Japan, because the copies were manifestly superior to the CBS-era originals - and they used the same Japanese factories that built the copies. This had the effect of both helping kill off the "copy" industry, & making a desirable brand very much more attainable to people. I make this point, not because I think JH should outsource production to other territories (I don't think this - in fact I respect his principles in [b]not[/b] doing so massively - he would make a lot more money, a lot more easily if he did) but because the original 1970s Japanese copy boom was driven by a demand for certain instruments, from a market sector that could not afford the real thing. And history has a tendency to repeat itself. Right at the moment, we are in an era in which guitar-driven music is massively popular, there are more people playing & starting playing than ever before - and our culture is more brand-obsessed than it has ever been. And because of the fashion for retro-styled bands, Rickenbackers are more desirable than ever. Surely you must understand my point here! I don't support the market in cheap copies - and actual counterfeits - any more than you do, but it is happening, will continue to happen, and RIC price increases can only make for conditions more favourable to it continuing, and getting worse. Just to make it clear again - I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD THING! As far as the vintage Rick copies are concerned, some were good, some were poor, none of them would pass scrutiny & be taken for a real one. Mine is a beautiful instrument in its own right - it's exceptionally well-made, plays like a dream, sounds great - but doesn't play or sound like a real Rick, any more than it looks like one. And the people who tend to own/buy these are fellow sad geeks like myself, with a fetish for old Jap driftwood - they are collectors' pieces these days. So you see, I'm not really expressing a particular opinion about any of this - apart from not thinking a large price increase on an already expensive product is a great idea. My perspective mostly derives from a historical view of a market in which similar conditions prevailed in the past - and what those conditions led to. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Jammie This is not meant to be personal but it must be more than just a coincidence that your views, in different forums over the years, cause such controversy? I actually go with your views pretty much on Ric's, against the general run of opinion here. But as they say in NLP 'The map is not the territory' and trying to be the one who proves his opinion is the right one just isn't going to work and can cause much angst. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinger Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 So what exactly was the list price in 2007? I find it hard to believe that the price really went up 40% (that would mean that the "before" price for the 4003 was USD 1.542,-)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 [quote]I'm aware that RIC are entirely within their rights to up their prices dramatically, and given the demand this is entirely rational.[/quote] +1 I'm not an economist, nor do I have any decent appreciation of business. But from what little I do know, the above is all that really matters from their stand point. I'm [i]sure[/i] they realised that there would be a number of customers and potential customers that wouldn't like the price increase, and that a fraction of them would decide not to buy, or at the least put it off til a later date... Correct me if I'm wrong (I could very well be, I'm going out on a limb here) does that not fit with the concept of supply and demand? Raise the price, orders drop (for the reason above, amongst others), your supply can meet demand. It makes sense that the amount they increase the price should be somewhat related to how much they hope to drive down the number of orders in order to meet demand. That's my tentative thoughts on it, I'm sure that's somewhat oversimplified, and probably erroneous in some way, but it seems to make sense from a simpleton's viewpoint. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Rickenbacker shouldn't 'have to' outsource or get bigger in order to remove their waiting list if they choose not to. The company apparently functions well at it's present size and format and it can be folly to change what works, especially if growth makes a company vulnerable. They have streamlined their range in order to get on top of their order book. I suspect that there are negatives too with forever making instruments that have been ordered for over a year. Having time and manpower to spend on development being one of them. I suspect that the price hike is mainly in place to cover the increasing cost of raw materials. As developing countries are consuming ever more sometimes dwindling resources prices have shot up. According to Ric, the last price rise was in 2001 and because of the backlog this price rise won't take effect until 2008/9. Maybe the biggest mistake that Ric have made is in the way they have done this from a marketing point of view rather more than what they have actually done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 erm is now the right time to ask Mr Hall to start making a few more 4080's? Im sure he's never been asked that before... heheeh :-) Seriously - its a matter of consumerism. If you want one, and dont agree with the price, dont buy it. Simple really. I think its a hefty rise.... but we all know if you realllly want something you tend to find the money for it (Ask the Shuker posse! Hehe!). I personally wouldnt pay for any bass out of my price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass-dude Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 If I was Rickenbacker, I'd do the same. How many people here would sell a bass for £1,000 if they could sell it for £1,400? If you don't like the price, buy something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='108799' date='Dec 24 2007, 09:02 AM']According to Ric, the last price rise was in 2001 and because of the backlog this price rise won't take effect until 2008/9.[/quote] Although Mr. Hall gives the impression that prices haven't increased since 2001, the last one was in January this year - overall just under 10%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreeneKing Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Ah but was that a price rise driven by Ric or their importer adjusting their prices inline with UK inflation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted December 29, 2007 Author Share Posted December 29, 2007 [quote name='GreeneKing' post='110729' date='Dec 29 2007, 10:27 PM']Ah but was that a price rise driven by Ric or their importer adjusting their prices inline with UK inflation?[/quote] That was a price rise from RIC. I've no idea whether Rosetti raised their UK prices though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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