Rubbish David Eden values

[angelboy]

As an owner of a WT800 and D410XLT that cost well over £2000 (RRP much higher) I'm always staggered to see prices as low as £400 for the head and £325 for the cabs.

Why does it seem that Eden gear doesn't hold its value?

Does anyone else agree or have similar issues with other brands?

[JTUK]

Not flavour of the month anymore or the 'hippest, must-have gear', IMO.

That doesn't make your stuff not 'top-end' gear though, just that the second hand markets reflect what people will pay, not a statement on the redundancy of your rig.

I am not so sure your exact models go for that second hand, but if you say you have seen them for that, then fair enough.
I would have thought that that rig would be as good sounding as anything else is capable of, IMV.

IMV, Once you get to top-end Eden, SWR, Aguilar, Thunderfunk.. which are the heads I would chase after, it is all down to taste.
Having said that, SWR don't make them like they used to...IMHO, and maybe neither do Eden..??

[Mr. Foxen]

Does William Murderface still use Eden in the newer episodes?

[throwoff]

Funny thing the second hand market!

Some brands just are not worth the value of the parts second hand it seems (Eden, Warwick and G&L spring to mind) other things hold their value incredibly well despite the low initial output (Squier VM basses are a good one!)

It's all peaks and troughs, same as how a couple of years back you could get a HW Strat for about 400 quid while the tele was closer to 600! Now the strat is going back up again and the tele is a bit less in vogue.

[wotnwhy]

I don't know why the prices second hand Eden equipment is low. They're right near the top and trounce some of the so-called 'competitors' that sell for a lot more.

Take advantage of it and build up your collection before people remember how good the stuff is!

[Merton]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='948331' date='Sep 7 2010, 02:33 PM']Take advantage of it and build up your collection before people remember how good the stuff is![/quote]
Shhhh, that was my plan!

[wotnwhy]

It would be my plan too if i wasn't going through a dry patch funds wise...

[flyfisher]

I've often wondered why so-called 'top-end' gear is so highly priced.

Do they really use more and/or highly priced components or is the high price just a reflection of the low production volumes?

Or, more controversially perhaps, are they just adding sky-high margins because they can get away with it?

[wotnwhy]

From my own experience i would probably say all of the above.

[stevie]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='948615' date='Sep 7 2010, 06:34 PM']I've often wondered why so-called 'top-end' gear is so highly priced.

Do they really use more and/or highly priced components or is the high price just a reflection of the low production volumes?

Or, more controversially perhaps, are they just adding sky-high margins because they can get away with it?[/quote]
It has to be highly priced because otherwise it wouldn't be top-end. In the higher echelons, perceived value is more important than actual value. So, your third suggestion is more accurate than you might imagine.

[JTUK]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='948615' date='Sep 7 2010, 06:34 PM']I've often wondered why so-called 'top-end' gear is so highly priced.

Do they really use more and/or highly priced components or is the high price just a reflection of the low production volumes?

Or, more controversially perhaps, are they just adding sky-high margins because they can get away with it?[/quote]


In some cases, it is true the parts are more expensive, IMV.

For example.. look in an early SWR amp .when they were as good as it got..and compare to say a Mesa Boogie now.
These are examples my amp guy talks about ( as he sees so many Boogies ) and he says the difference between the two internally is chalk and cheese.

I doubt SWR maintain that standard of components and it would be down to builders like Dave Funk to carry that on, possibly, but
yes, it is probably hard to get that premium for parts when you can't see them..and tbh, nobody really worries about it until things go wrong.
But is does seem, from this little story, than some builders maintain a premium on popularity alone and not parts.

I have always had a problem paying x money for a western made product and then they ship ops to the far east and STILL charge the same monies.
It has little to do with build quality just the fact that the far east do not have our labours costs..!! pet rant..!!

[flyfisher]

I understand why a hand-wired or even hand-soldered amp will be expensive but that extra money is obviously going towards the production cost - it will have little or nothing to do with the actual functional 'quality' of the amp. That's a function of the actual circuit design, not the production method.

I've always though it odd that "handmade" is generally regarded as "the best" when, in practice, it's a very bad way of ensuring repeatable quality and high tolerances in assembly.

Edited September 8, 2010 by flyfisher

[chris_b]

Eden went through a bad patch and haven't bounced back yet. They fired their founder, produced some amps that kept breaking, moved production to the Far East and in the UK lost their distributer. To some this says "trouble; don't touch with a barge pole." They were and still are expensive, also they were very slow to market with lightweight amps and neo cabs and still haven't really moved away from their very heavy gear. Despite all of this Eden still seems to be the choice of touring hip hop bands and "modern" US acts.

Eden's used value might never recover which is not good if you are selling, but their gear is definitely some of the best that has ever been made.

Edited September 8, 2010 by chris_b

[chris_b]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='948615' date='Sep 7 2010, 06:34 PM']....I've often wondered why so-called 'top-end' gear is so highly priced. Do they really use more and/or highly priced components or is the high price just a reflection of the low production volumes? Or, more controversially perhaps, are they just adding sky-high margins because they can get away with it?....[/quote]
"Top end" gear is a pretty general term and unfortunately quality is not guaranteed by price. Cheap is not good value either!

The Thunderfunk TFB550's were not too expensive, about £750, but the quality of the components was high and they were hand made to a very high spec. Play one and you can hear where every penny has been spent. Mesa Boogie are hand made and only use US parts. Epifani is "top end" as is PJB and they are made in China, presumably to a "different" spec, certainly to a different labour cost, but that doesn't seem to be reflected in the price!

If you're smart you can get value for money out of "top end" gear.

[JTUK]

Yes..also agree about such a generic term such as 'top end'...I recently did a stage gig and the backline was 'hired' in. I asked what it was as my backline load is not long at all..and I was told it was top end and I should go with it for the sake of ease. I went with it and found out the amp was a GK 700 thingey. It was ok, but top-end it isn't, IMO. Way too complicated on the front panel and core sounds are lacking.
I got an ok stage sound out of it and the DI bypassed it anyway, thankfully. And I might add that all the other acts struggled with it as well.
I prefer good core sounds which require the minimum of chasing to find.. that defines the amp pretty much for me.

So set the controls flat or centred, although not assuming this is FLAT flat and go from there...if it doesn't work with your bass, then you are going to forever chasing your tail a lot of the time. IME/IMO...!!
It didn't help that the cab was a slow 15" with a top horn which I tend to hate, anyway. Punchy it was not..!!

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' post='949310' date='Sep 8 2010, 12:05 PM']So set the controls flat or centred, although not assuming this is FLAT flat and go from there...if it doesn't work with your bass, then you are going to forever chasing your tail a lot of the time. IME/IMO...!![/quote]

100% agree. That's why I've been so impressed with the Eden stuff, out of the box it sounds great (to my ears) straightaway with very minimal tweaking, if at all.

[BassBod]

I've used (older) SWR for years and still rate it - apart from the heavy cabs and the heat/noisy fans - but they were normal issues for gear of the time. Similar with Eden, although I had more overheating problems with Eden stuff. When I took things for service the build quality of both SWR and Eden was mentioned as very good, and they went for routine service, not breakdown repair. Thunderfunk...well, it hummed like a bee (a big,big,bee) and two service engineers thought the build quality was distinctly average, if not a bit lacking in design quality.

A lot of the perceived value of used bass gear is driven by market fashion - like most other things.

the big thing in favour of the older stuff is it is serviceable by people, because it was put together by people. Current designs are generally not fixable once the manufacturer has stopped that model/version and hasn't got stocks of circuit cards. I really like my current EA500 amp, but I know it has a more limited working life than my old SWR220.

[Al Heeley]

[quote name='JTUK' post='949310' date='Sep 8 2010, 12:05 PM']Yes..also agree about such a generic term such as 'top end'...I recently did a stage gig and the backline was 'hired' in. I asked what it was as my backline load is not long at all..and I was told it was top end and I should go with it for the sake of ease. I went with it and found out the amp was a GK 700 thingey. It was ok, but top-end it isn't, IMO. Way too complicated on the front panel and core sounds are lacking.
I got an ok stage sound out of it and the DI bypassed it anyway, thankfully. And I might add that all the other acts struggled with it as well.
I prefer good core sounds which require the minimum of chasing to find.. that defines the amp pretty much for me.

So set the controls flat or centred, although not assuming this is FLAT flat and go from there...if it doesn't work with your bass, then you are going to forever chasing your tail a lot of the time. IME/IMO...!!
It didn't help that the cab was a slow 15" with a top horn which I tend to hate, anyway. Punchy it was not..!![/quote]
Your posts are entirely distracting, I can see all those words there but all I can focus on is the picture.

[JTUK]

Al Heeley... I know..quite a showstopper, I think


The point about SWR is that the old stuff ran REALLY hot... so ventilation is crucial, but they were designed for that. On my SM400 you can fry eggs almost but that is the design feature. I don't rack it anymore so let it self venitilate.

I honestly believe those SM series were their finest hour and the amps are classics.
I have had my SM400 for nigh on 20 years and the only problem I had was when it was dropped under power.
A decent tech fixed it for £35 and commended it on its build quality and components. He said he would not design the input stage the same way, himself...but he rated them overall. He then went to 'un-rate' quite a few big names..ha ha..

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Merton' post='949370' date='Sep 8 2010, 12:58 PM']100% agree. That's why I've been so impressed with the Eden stuff, out of the box it sounds great (to my ears) straightaway with very minimal tweaking, if at all.[/quote]
+1

Though my amp chappie wasn't so impressed with the build quality when he serviced my Eden Metro, and it is 10 years old now. I still love the sound of it regardless..

[waynepunkdude]

I thought this thread was going to be about Dave Eden being against gays marrying or something.

[Merton]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='951205' date='Sep 9 2010, 10:21 PM']+1

Though my amp chappie wasn't so impressed with the build quality when he serviced my Eden Metro, and it is 10 years old now. I still love the sound of it regardless..[/quote]
Really? Oh sh1t

I hope the 6yr old WT550 isn't shoddy - I *think* it was built around the time of the US Music takeover so hopefully the megacorp sh1tness hadn't stuck yet.. Ah well, it sounds good, and to be honest some the Traces I used to own weren't exactly well built inside (bloody Gibson era tosh)

[Merton]

[quote name='Merton' post='951235' date='Sep 9 2010, 10:48 PM']I *think* it was built around the time of the US Music takeover so hopefully the megacorp sh1tness hadn't stuck yet..[/quote]
This is, in fact, bollocks. US Music took over in Dec 2002 and my amp was made in 2004. Hehe.

[chris_b]

[quote]....Rubbish David Eden values....[/quote]
Who's David Eden?

Just pointing out it's either David Nordschow, the Eden founder or David speakers, so named because he thought they were better than SWR's Goliath speaker range.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='chris_b' post='951344' date='Sep 10 2010, 12:26 AM']Who's David Eden?

Just pointing out it's either David Nordschow, the Eden founder or David speakers, so named because he thought they were better than SWR's Goliath speaker range.[/quote]Back of the net.