Are some Basschat Topics & posts getting out of hand?

[silverfoxnik]

Hi Folks,

Like a lot of you, I've been reading some of the more contentious posts lately. Some of those that spring to mind are the 'I Hate Jazz', 'I Hate Jamiroquoi/JK' and the 'ERBs' too name just a few.

I've read them, contributed to them and enjoyed some of what's been written by members. But what's worrying me is that there seems to be a lot of unrest developing which IMHO isn't what should be happening here on Basschat, which after all is a brilliant Forum where we can indulge our love of ALL things bass and by extension, ALL things music. Plus, the opportunity to share thoughts, views, news etc with like minded people (i.e. musicians) is a real privilege.

So, for my part, I'm aware that I've gone overboard a bit on one or two of my posts, so I think I'm going to back off from contributing to the more contentious topics until things calm down a bit here.

And with that in mind I'm going to take this opportunity wish everyone here on Basschat a wonderful & peaceful Christmas & New Year and best wishes for 2008!

Nik

[Ou7shined]

Generally I stay away from hate threads (so I've not even checked out the ones mentioned) unless it's just a bit of a larf. I can't see the point of trying to change the mind of the hater (it's not like they're gonna say "oh yeah you're right - mods please remove this thread") and nothing is gained by adding my own hate into the thread. Karma baby!

[b]edit[/b] : rants are ok tho - they are cathartic.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Ou7shined

[GreeneKing]

Basschat is a community and just like any other gathering of people goes through the 'forming, norming and storming' and hopefully we enjoy the experience.

If someone comes along and throws a deliberately contentious issue into the 'maw' and stands back to see the impact it doesn't show much respect to the other members imo. I'm all for opinions being expressed, as opinions but there's a lot of 'I hate this....' this is crap etc that says more to me about the poster than the subject matter.

Basschat has grown and is undoubtably very successful but it has long since ceased to be a place of good willed respect/pisstaking and banter for me. I visit, glean info, catch up with friends and contribute but for me the 'soul' has gone.

Maybe it's me and not the forum? Who knows.

Peter

[Happy Jack]

Note that you have to vote in the second poll, even if you said 'No' to the first poll, or you get an error message.

===============

I'm strictly at the non-confrontational end of the spectrum on this sort of thing. A thread with a title like [i]I hate jazz[/i] is one I steer clear of.

That said, I've been involved with plenty of forums over the years, as have most of us here I imagine, and IMO the ones where everyone agrees with each other all the time are a bit pointless.

If the subject matters to you, and bass playing matters to me a lot, then there will be things on which you hold strong views, and sometimes those views will surface. Given what I said above, obviously I don't like trolling, but you can express strong, controversial views without being a troll.

Sometimes there needs to be a bit of an edge to a topic. I don't mind that, and I've seen nothing yet on BC which I found offensive. Plenty I didn't agree with, but so what? I'm free to express my opinion too.

Have a good one,

J.

[Guest TheBigBeefChief]

I think that there is room for some healthy debate, especially if light hearted. However, I think some people do take it a bit far. Hate is a very strong word and is bandied about slightly too casually on this forum sometimes.

Merry Christmas.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='108131' date='Dec 22 2007, 01:48 PM']Basschat is a community and just like any other gathering of people goes through the 'forming, norming and storming' and hopefully we enjoy the experience.

If someone comes along and throws a deliberately contentious issue into the 'maw' and stands back to see the impact it doesn't show much respect to the other members imo. I'm all for opinions being expressed, as opinions but there's a lot of 'I hate this....' this is crap etc that says more to me about the poster than the subject matter.

Basschat has grown and is undoubtably very successful but it has long since ceased to be a place of good willed respect/pisstaking and banter for me. I visit, glean info, catch up with friends and contribute [b]but for me the 'soul' has gone[/b].

Maybe it's me and not the forum? Who knows.

Peter[/quote]

I don't think we've lost anything on here, maybe some people have backed off or have less time to contribute but on the whole I still find time for banter and general all round bassiness. There is a good spread of opinions which is healthy but sometimes I do worry about the manner in which some people express themselves.

[thumbo]

I personally don't find this forum half as friendly as it was back in the bassworld days.

[Stewart]

I still think it's a nice place to visit regularly - a good mix of opinions and interests, and generally very well behaved (especially for an Internet entity).

There are some cranky/intolerant types, but that's life... (and it's particularly understandable at this time of year).

Moderation should always be a last resort IMO - only after 'peer moderation' by members has completely failed, and generally this seems to be the case here.

Long may it continue!

[Alpha-Dave]

I'm loving the Ignore function.

[Guest TheBigBeefChief]

What's the ignore function? How does it work?

Sorry - that's really off topic!

[Alun]

[quote name='thumbo' post='108139' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:07 PM']I personally don't find this forum half as friendly as it was back in the bassworld days.[/quote]

I must admit I agree. There seem to be a lot more opinionated blinkered posts here these days. I guess it's the nature of growth though - look at the sheer number of idiots who comment on Youtube and post on more established forums.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='thumbo' post='108139' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:07 PM']I personally don't find this forum half as friendly as it was back in the bassworld days.[/quote]


I remember BW (I was only there for a short while before the move to BC), and it *was* friendly, but smaller...

Maybe the two are connected? Anyway, I think the thing is to be tolerant of peoples sometimes provocative views.

The freedom to express oneself, within *some* limits, is what it's all about. If it gets too cosy I think it becomes dull.

There's the real value of BC, getting advice, information, etc. then there's the entertainment, two very different things.

If they can coexist then so much the better, but over moderation can stifle the life out of a community.

These things have a way of sorting themselves out, the best thing to do with over provocative posters is just ignore

[stewblack]

It's something you notice a lot on line. The idiots are the grit in the oyster. They irritate but they do encourage people to post.
Also one of the cardinal rules of the internet is that any given forum won't seem as good in a year's time.
The majority of people here are still fine.

[s_u_y_*]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='108158' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:31 PM']I remember BW (I was only there for a short while before the move to BC), and it *was* friendly, but smaller...

Maybe the two are connected? Anyway, I think the thing is to be tolerant of peoples sometimes provocative views.[/quote]

I think that too. I think that BC is much more easier to use and navigate than BW, so that encourages more people to post here. More people means more chance for conflict. Personally, I think this forum is still a pretty nice place to be. The moderators almost never use their powers to edit/close/etc, and it still feels like a community, which I prefer this forum to say TB.

[nig]

[quote name='stewblack' post='108167' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:52 PM']It's something you notice a lot on line. The idiots are the grit in the oyster. They irritate but they do encourage people to post.
Also one of the cardinal rules of the internet is that any given forum won't seem as good in a year's time.
The majority of people here are still fine.[/quote]
Well put +1. I dont get involved in politics, football and religion and the more purile threads i read and move on...remember you dont have to answer and I like to enjoy the comradery rather than the flaming, also bass forums are a great rescource as we all need help sometime or another.

Edited December 22, 2007 by nig

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='nig' post='108179' date='Dec 22 2007, 03:22 PM']...also bass forums are a great rescource as we all need help sometime or another.[/quote]


Right!

For me this forum is the best place to get really good advice on anything to do with bass...

Try that at your local branch of Sound Control

[Tinman]

I agree with Greeneking, this place has lost some of it's soul.
As for heavy moderation, I feel it would be a shame if it became necessary but there have been times recently, when I have felt it to be warranted.
Healthy discussion yes, vitriol for the sake of getting a reaction no.

Just my opinion.

Pete

[Sean]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='108131' date='Dec 22 2007, 01:48 PM']but for me the 'soul' has gone.[/quote]

I whole heartedly agree.

[quote name='thumbo' post='108139' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:07 PM']I personally don't find this forum half as friendly as it was back in the bassworld days.[/quote]

+1

[quote name='Tinman' post='108186' date='Dec 22 2007, 03:45 PM']I agree with Greeneking, this place has lost some of it's soul.
As for heavy moderation, I feel it would be a shame if it became necessary but there have been times recently, when I have felt it to be warranted.
Healthy discussion yes, vitriol for the sake of getting a reaction no.[/quote]

I think that sometimes the moderation is uneven. If you compare the "I Hate Jazz" thread with the "I Hate Jamiroquai" thread a very different tack was taken by the mods. In the first one the obvious trolling was tolerated and I felt that the negative and incendiary tone taken was [i]almost[/i] supported by the mods whereas with the latter Machines took a different approach and rightfully, I think, alerted everyone to the fact that this was in fact trolling. I think that this approach works in knocking the wind out of the sails of the antagonists.

One answer, I suppose is, ignore it and move on but we never used to have it; it's something that seems to have crept in over the last couple of months.

I don't post as much as I used to but as I've met some great people and even made some good friends and one really special one through here, I'll be sticking around for quite a while to come.

This is a horribly stressful time of the year for some of us and we should be getting away from all the crap when we log in here not spreading it around.


Happy Hannukah or Merry Christmas to all.

[Hamster]

[quote name='silverfoxnik']But what's worrying me is that there seems to be a lot of unrest developing which IMHO isn't what should be happening here on Basschat, which after all is a brilliant Forum where we can indulge our love of ALL things bass and by extension, ALL things music. Plus, the opportunity to share thoughts, views, news etc with like minded people (i.e. musicians) is a real privilege.

And with that in mind I'm going to take this opportunity wish everyone here on Basschat a wonderful & peaceful Christmas & New Year and best wishes for 2008!

Nik[/quote]

+1 on both of those.


[quote name='Ou7shined']edit : rants are ok tho - they are cathartic.[/quote]

-1 Maybe cathartic for the individual - but not as a starting point for meaningless and insulting posts which is not good for the website.


[quote name='TheBigBeefChief']I think that there is room for some healthy debate, especially if light hearted. However, I think some people do take it a bit far. Hate is a very strong word and is bandied about slightly too casually on this forum sometimes.

Merry Christmas.[/quote]

+1 on that

[quote name='Alun']I must admit I agree. There seem to be a lot more opinionated blinkered posts here these days. I guess it's the nature of growth though - look at the sheer number of idiots who comment on Youtube and post on more established forums.[/quote]

+1 on that too

[quote name='Tinman']Healthy discussion yes, vitriol for the sake of getting a reaction no.[/quote]

+1 also


So yes, some topics are pretty pointless from post #1 and go downhill from there. Some, as we've seen are libelous and defamatory and the posters should have more intelligence before ranting and perhaps show some respect for the website owners.

Hamster

[ShergoldSnickers]

This isn't a simple issue.

First point: Is this trend an attempt at Chris Morris humour or genuine opinion? Hard to tell sometimes. Undoubtedly there is some shock value either way.

Oh sod it, let's cut to the chase, the subject of this discussion is basically the two or three controversial posts and/or contributions BBC has made. There's a tendency to button push for humorous effect, but after seeing a couple of really intelligent posts BBC has mixed in, I go for the Chris Morris angle. He may play the fool but he isn't one underneath. Can't help feeling there's an agenda somewhere though.

Now let's suppose it's genuine opinion. If Hitler himself started contributing, I wouldn't mind, because how do we counter without first hearing the argument? Extreme views often condemn themselves when held up to public glare.

Second point: I'm uneasy with censorship and personally would find it impossible to moderate effectively and fairly - a superhuman task to do it with consistency. I self-censor in that regard, ignoring posts I don't like, and contributing to those I do, and experimenting with those I'm not sure of.

Third Point: I'm getting to know those who provoke controversy, and act accordingly. Some controversy helps to stop things getting stale in my opinion. I find what others think is fascinating, if more than a little bizarre at times.

Fourth Point: There isn't a person on this board I wouldn't help out if I could*. I can't say that of any other board. That's the strength. If there was a danger of losing that then I really would be worried. It's a judgement the moderators would have to make. I don't envy them.






*Within reason folks...

[jakenewmanbass]

this is only the second forum I've read and contributed to (the other being the Alembic owners club) the discussion here may sometimes be polemic, but what pleases me no end is that I'm encountering intelligent considered opinion on almost a daily basis. Whether I agree with posts or not that is still a great thing in my view, and best of all it is right alongside a fantastic wealth of knowledge about my favourite thing in the world (after my family) bass and bass playing/ers.
seasons greetings to all of you and hope this place exists for many more seasons
Jake

[Lfalex v1.1]

In all honesty, I generally avoid "off topic" threads. I look in on it from time to time, but seldom read anything that is less than factual or news related.
I saw the Jazz and Jamiroquai threads and duly ignored them.

This place is still fine, and will remain so as long as people take the name of the site literally.

[jammie17]

[quote name='Alun' post='108156' date='Dec 22 2007, 02:28 PM']I must admit I agree. There seem to be a lot more opinionated blinkered posts here these days. I guess it's the nature of growth though - [i][b]look at the sheer number of idiots[/b][/i] who comment on Youtube and post on more established forums.[/quote]


Interesting reply.

[wateroftyne]

While I freely admit that I rant a bit if the topic hits a nerve of mine (the recent smoking debate, for example), I can't help thinking there's a few people around that are blatantly trolling, and another handful that that can't get their point across without being insulting, abusive, arrogant and/or nasty.

But... that's the nature of these places. BC is better than most, thankfully.

Hopefully, in time, the idiots will grow up, or get bored and bugger off.

[clauster]

I'm a member of far worse fora for this sort of thing (my favourite motorcycle one has some serious flaming issues).

Personally I think the more views there are in this world, the more interesting the place becomes. I've only ever had passive four stringers (and have never owned more than two at once) and minimal FX in 26 and a bit years of being a bassist - I can see why others want and have actives, five strings, ERBs, uprights huge pedal boards and large collections of instruments. I like a wide range of music (but not all) so can understand why some feel the need to sound off at certain styles or artists (for myself I recognise that I know very little about genres I don't like so I keep my mouth shut - a lot of people say they don't like country - I always ask which style(s) they don't like, it's a hell of a journey from bluegrass to neil young and round to gram persons). I think that most people round here are the same - its a friendly and helpful place for st of the time and members.

Whereever y0u go in life you come across people that can't cope with the fact that some others view things differently and feel the need to make it an emotive issue, others maybe just enjoy a good barney. Whichever I'll listen once then move away to someone more reasonable.