Upgrading machine heads on CIJ fenders

[cocco]

Help! I want new tuners (and hopefully de-tuners) on my 2 CIJ fenders. They are a pb-70 and a jb-66us (I think they're the model numbers) the jazz has bigger holes in the headstock than the p and the hipshot site doesn't help too much. I'm not gonna be too snobby about them being hipshot but I definatly want de-tuners and I thought hipshot were the only people who made them.. Help!

[Cat Burrito]

I'm no expert but I have 1978 USA Fender tuners in my MIJ neck, no problem. I'm surprised at the difference in size that you describe. I assumed they were all pretty much of a standard. The reissue ones presumably would be ok. I have some USA 62RI ones about to go into a 1979 & again I am not anticipating any difficulties

[cameltoe]

I just bought some hipshot ultralites from the states, the larger post, 1/2" peg size, and they are noticably smaller than the tuners that have come out. The hipshot collars won't fit tight in the holes at all. I did a bit of research, but TBH the information is so vague it's hard to tell. I think I got a vague whiff of someone on talkbass saying that vintage reverse tuners, the ones I was replacing, are a wee bit bigger than standard, modern sizes. I haven't been able to confirm this, as my other bass, a CV Squier, is currently being set up. I'll either use them on that, or they'll be up for grabs.

The Hipshots must be a direct fit for Fenders as Fender now use them on the P and J deluxe.

I didn't think there was any difference in size between P and J though.

Gotoh do an exact vintage reverse lightweight replacement, which I've just ordered to go in instead. If they're too small I'll do my nut. Thankfully Gotoh actually bother to suppply measured diagrams with their tuners, and they looked correct as far as my measurements went.

Why oh why these hardware companies can't just be upfront about whether their products are a direct Fender replacement baffles me.

[Stewart]

All but a few 'specials' Japanese Fenders seem to have relatively tiny tuners, and I can't recall seeing anyone advertising replacements.

Might be worth investigating reaming them out and fitting US standard/vintage, as I believe the spacing between centres is the same (but will check for sure tonight - I've got two Japanese precision necks with the smaller tuners).

[cocco]

The P and J defiantly have different machines with the Js appearing just to be a larger version. The Js stand a lot higher than the p, their back plates are a lot larger and the posts look roughly a 3rd larger than the p to the eye. I've just put both serial numbers into guitar dater project. It gave the p as 1997-2000 and the jazz as 04-05 both made at fugi-gen. The J is 60s spaced with 60s headstock logos, CAR with matching headstock and 3 ply White plate and a dots and bound neck. The original bridge had threaded saddles. It weighs very noticeably more than the p. The P has television logos and is Olympic white with a black 3ply plate, non threaded saddles. Both are strung over. does this help at all?

[Stewart]

Ah just re-read...

I'm guessing your J (larger tuners) will be standard - there are pics and some dimensions on this site that might help:

[url="http://www.bestbassgear.com/hipshot-tuners.htm"]BestBassGear[/url]

I don't think you'll have much joy with the smaller tuners though.

[cocco]

Actually they look more like they'd go on the P. The jazz ones have really really long stems. It's odd. Annoying too. I might take them to a tech and see what they think. Unless bassassin or any of the other jap afficionados have any ideas.

[Dood]

Hi guys, to add to the discussion, I have a CIJ PB70US-BLK (Which I believe like your xxUS Jazz will have the same larger keys than the PB-70). I upgraded from the standard chrome keys to gold and bought a really nice set of Wilkinsons off ebay.

Now, personally I prefer these over the likes of the Schaller fender replacements because the Wilkinson tuner 'key' is longer and makes the key stand higher away from the headstock - I like. Oh, interestingly the Wilkinsons look exactly the same as the stock key that came off my bass - I mean - exactly the same, Wilkinson could have done OEM's for Fender!

Anyway - quick ebay search found them for you - here's a few links: (The first has the dimensions on)

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Line-Gold-Wilkinson-Open-Frame-Bass-Tuners-/150490895005?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item2309f4d29d"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-Line-Gold-Wilkinso...=item2309f4d29d[/url]
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wilkinson-black-bass-guitar-tuners-No-12-13-/140325330591?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item20ac0a9e9f"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wilkinson-black-bass...=item20ac0a9e9f[/url]
[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wilkinson-BLACK-Open-Frame-Fender-Style-Bass-Tuners-/370413982335?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item563e64d27f"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wilkinson-BLACK-Open...=item563e64d27f[/url]

Finally, if you would like to compare the shape of your keys, I have a thread about my upgrades that shows both new and old keys in situ:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87360"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=87360[/url]

[Stewart]

Here's a couple of pics, the first shows 4 heads - the left hand is a 'special' Fender Japan, with the same size tuner pins as the second head (USA), the two on the right are 'standard Fender Japan' as far as I'm aware.

[attachment=58771:P9140013.JPG]

The distance between E and G centres is identical on all four (~143mm), but the pins are ~ 13mm diameter on the LH pair, and around 11mm on the right.

The rear of one of the RH Japanese is in the following pic - the plate is smaller than any other type I have to compare with (no Mexicans so far...)

[attachment=58772:P9140014.JPG]

[cocco]

Yes! That's it exactly the j is like the one on the left and the p like the right hand. Have you ever looked for replacement tuners Stewart? I'd really like to have the same long stemmed ones on the p as the j. Hopefully with a detuner too. If I can find one to fit. If not what would people think of having the holes bored out? I have a very good local luthier in the shape of Dave Dearnley.

[cocco]

Also yes dood that's exactly what i want for the J! Only in chrome. Do they feel good? What's the quality like?

[jezzaboy]

If you are looking for a set of Gotoh tuners to fit the small diamater holes on a Jap Fender, here is a link.

[url="http://www.highlystrung.co.uk/acatalog/Gotoh_Machine_Heads_for_Bass_Guitar.html"]http://www.highlystrung.co.uk/acatalog/Got...ass_Guitar.html[/url]

If you get the GB1N-4, they will fit the small size of holes if you know what I mean. I had a set that I bought for a VMJ but they were too small. I eventually moved them onto chrisd24 who put them on his Jazz. Might be worth sending him a pm regarding size as the website is pretty vauge regarding size.

Regarding the larger diamater, as said earlier you cant go wrong with a set of Wilkinson tuners. Vintage style, long keys, £24 and they stay in tune! Got a set on a P and the VMJ. Great value. It`s the one`s available r/h and l/h at the top of the page, £6 each.


[url="http://www.axesrus.com/AxeBassMachine.html"]http://www.axesrus.com/AxeBassMachine.html[/url]

Jez

[cameltoe]

Gotoh, I'm pretty sure, have a set to suit all the Fender sizes.

They have all the measurements of their tuners available on their website, if you can accurately measure yours you can identify the correct ones.

Plus Gotoh's are awesome.