2x10's on their ends

[Marky L]

I'm interested in all this talk about sticking 2x10 cabs on their ends. Nearly everyone on here seems to recommend doing this, I just want to know why? How does this improve the sound? Especially if you had a couple of cabs, surely putting them one on top the other is the same as them both on end side by side?

Tell me why!! I need to know!!!!

[neilb]

[quote name='Marky L' post='108812' date='Dec 24 2007, 09:51 AM']I'm interested in all this talk about sticking 2x10 cabs on their ends. Nearly everyone on here seems to recommend doing this, I just want to know why? How does this improve the sound? Especially if you had a couple of cabs, surely putting them one on top the other is the same as them both on end side by side?

Tell me why!! I need to know!!!! [/quote]


theres a techy explanation to do with the dispersal axis of the cones, they tend not to clash if on their ends.

Sounds better on their ends IME.

[Marky L]

[quote name='neilb' post='108813' date='Dec 24 2007, 09:54 AM']dispersal axis of the cones[/quote]

Ah, right.. *ducks head and runs!

Thanks tho!

[warwickhunt]

TBH you aren't talking HUGE difference when you do this. There are loads posts about this and there are scientific reasons why it is so but the greatest benefit to the pub gigging bassist is that the speakers will be closer to your lugs when you are standing 4 foot away from your cabs down at the Dog & Duck. Seriously don't get hung up on it just try it and if it works all good and well, if you can't hear a blind bit of difference (remember to try listening from all parts of a room/venue, it may well make more difference in one venue than another) then just do what suits!

[ped]

I used to have a 410 and 210 rig and often had the 210 pointing up a little. To be honest i noticed no improvement when it was on its end other than the fact it was pointing up when I tilted it.

[dr.funk]

I stack mine on end purely for space reasons, it gives a really compact footprint for a large amount of speaker area. Having a driver up near your head really helps you to hear yourself too. I personally think it looks good

[Machines]

When I had my EB180-12 I'd stack it on top of my vertical MAG210. I tried it with the cab vertical and horizontal and couldn't tell much difference.

Now i've got the ABM300 I can't do that as it's as wide as the cab and would over spill by about 10cm each side.

[steve]

i recently tried this (see avatar), and while I couldn't hear much difference, the argument for having the speakers nearer your ears is good enough for me

[Hamster]

IIRC, the argument is that it's always best to stack speakers vertically. It improves the vertical dispersion - which I can get my head around, and for some reason it improves the wider dispersion - which I don't understand I'm trusting the opinion of someone like Bill Fitzmaurice or Alex Claber on this.

Hamster

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Hamster' post='108895' date='Dec 24 2007, 07:51 AM']IIRC, the argument is that it's always best to stack speakers vertically. It improves the vertical dispersion - which I can get my head around, and for some reason it improves the wider dispersion - which I don't understand I'm trusting the opinion of someone like Bill Fitzmaurice or Alex Claber on this.

Hamster[/quote]Two reasons for vertical stacking. One, you can hear them better. Two, the audience can hear them better. That has to do with two other facts. First, the all important midrange frequencies travel in relatively straight lines. The further the speakers are below your ear level the more difficult it is to hear them. Second, the angles of dispersion are inversely proportional to the width and height of the source. A low wide source has narrow dispersion on the horizontal plane, wide dispersion on the vertical plane, and that's the precise opposite of what's desired. Wide horizontal dispersion, for the benefit of the audience, and narrow vertical dispersion, so as not to waste power scerenading spiders on the ceiling and mites on the floor, is what you want, and you get that from a source that is narrow and high.
[quote]TBH you aren't talking HUGE difference when you do this.[/quote] Not necessary with one 2x10, but two stacked on end one over the other is significantly different than two side by side on the floor. That's why side by side cluster PA systems are landfill bound, being replaced by tall line arrays. Bass cabs should be tall and narrow too, but technologically the electric bass cab industry lags the PA industry by at least a decade, if not two.

[Marky L]

Fascinating stuff Thanks guys.

And dare I say it..

urmm..

Happy Christmas

Mark.

[bass_ferret]

I wonder how this baby will sound?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='108993' date='Dec 24 2007, 12:13 PM']I wonder how this baby will sound?

[/quote]
On the technical side, it's a bass reflex cab, like 90% of the cabs on the maket, loaded with Eminence dirvers, like 90% of the cabs on the market. But it does have the drivers vertically aligned the way they should be, not horizontal like 90% of the cabs on the market, so it's a step in the right direction. If it only had a midrange driver instead of a tweeter, so there would not be a midrange 'hole' in the response, and if the box were actually large enough to allow the woofers to work as well as they could, I'd call it a proper design.

[dr.funk]

Another really useful point about stacking them vertically is it puts the amp, and anything you put on top such as a laptop or synth, at the perfect height for tweaking.

[umph]

if its ported you'd probly want the port on the floor so you get more low end. you can always put it in a corner to make it louder to.

[MacDaddy]

Not sure if this will throw a spanner in the works, but I'd be grateful for some advice.

This is my rig, it's a 2x10 combo on top, and a 2x12 cab underneath. Thing is in both, the speakers are wrapped, so one is at the front, and the other is angled behind it.

Would the same advice still hold for this arrangement?

[ShergoldSnickers]

There has been a tendency for some time now for hi-fi cabinets and multi-channel sound systems to follow this path. You don't see many cabs that don't try to keep a fairly narrow front face, making up internal volume with back to front depth as well as height. A narrow front face apparently helps to give a better stereo image when using two cabinets and helps the perceived location of sound in a room if using more than two in a multi-channel set-up. Even lateral dispersion is one of the factors affecting how well a pair of speakers create a believable stereo image.

Some say that rounding off the edges of cabinets helps as well, but whether this would have any useful purpose on a bass cab is debatable.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='umph' post='110319' date='Dec 28 2007, 03:00 PM']if its ported you'd probly want the port on the floor so you get more low end. you can always put it in a corner to make it louder to.[/quote]
No difference. A port's output is roughly from 40 to 80 Hz, and is omnidirectional. If it's within less than a quarter wavelength of a boundary it gets boundary reinforcement. A quarter wavelength at 80 Hz is 3.5 feet.
[quote]There has been a tendency for some time now for hi-fi cabinets and multi-channel sound systems to follow this path. You don't see many cabs that don't try to keep a fairly narrow front face, making up internal volume with back to front depth as well as height. A narrow front face apparently helps to give a better stereo image when using two cabinets and helps the perceived location of sound in a room if using more than two in a multi-channel set-up. Even lateral dispersion is one of the factors affecting how well a pair of speakers create a believable stereo image.[/quote] That all has to do with diffraction, which is a different matter entirely.

[quote]Some say that rounding off the edges of cabinets helps as well, but whether this would have any useful purpose on a bass cab is debatable.[/quote]Also a diffraction issue, and less than about a 2 inch radius has little to no effect.

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='110395' date='Dec 28 2007, 11:14 PM']That all has to do with diffraction, which is a different matter entirely.

Also a diffraction issue, and less than about a 2 inch radius has little to no effect.[/quote]

I just learned something Bill. Primarily not to start swimming in the deep end before ready.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1198873632' post='110333']


Not sure if this will throw a spanner in the works, but I'd be grateful for some advice.

This is my rig, it's a 2x10 combo on top, and a 2x12 cab underneath. Thing is in both, the speakers are wrapped, so one is at the front, and the other is angled behind it.

Would the same advice still hold for this arrangement?
[/quote]

The sideways speakers don't count for the midrange, because they are acoustically bandpassed, so they just add lows. So for midrange purposes, its a 1x12 and a 1x12, but there's a tweeter there, you want to stack in such a way that the tweeter alone is high, and it there is two, they are close together and in a vertical line. I think that puts your knobs sideways.

Also I notice BFM gives much more detailed and informative answers when everyone is discussing sensibly, and that's better for learning.

[Mr. Foxen]

It definitely matters, the variable part is whether or not people actually like being able to hear their playing.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1337508729' post='1660985']
....It definitely matters, the variable part is whether or not people actually like being able to hear their playing....
[/quote]

See....

[funky8884]

It doesn't matter how I stack my cabs ! My rig is always loud enough for me and the band to hear

[chrismuzz]

To be fair, if I got a good sound having two horizontal 2x10s side by side on the floor of the stage I would do it

[Mr. Foxen]

Point is where it sounds good, the issue with the whole thing is that the sound varies according to where you are in relation to the cabs, and where everyone else that has to hear it is in relation to them and you.