8" speakers

[fryer]

I'm thinking of building a bass cabinet. Normally cabs have 10" or 12" speakers. 8" speakers aren't listed as bass speakers on Blue Aran. Those that are listed only go down to say 50 Hz, so how do say Markbass get a bass sound from 4 of them in a cabinet ?

[chris_b]

[quote name='fryer' post='955744' date='Sep 14 2010, 09:37 AM']....so how do say Markbass get a bass sound from 4 of them in a cabinet?....[/quote]
By properly designing the box and porting.

The spec for an Ampeg SVT810 cab is "Frequency Response (-3dB): 58Hz-5kHz". You wouldn't say that box lacks bass.

[bumnote]

You could probably pick up a second hand ashdown 4x8 for less than the speakers would cost new

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='fryer' post='955744' date='Sep 14 2010, 09:37 AM']I'm thinking of building a bass cabinet. Normally cabs have 10" or 12" speakers. 8" speakers aren't listed as bass speakers on Blue Aran. Those that are listed only go down to say 50 Hz, so how do say Markbass get a bass sound from 4 of them in a cabinet ?[/quote]

Probably use 8s designed for bass.

[Adrenochrome]

I think that most sound below 50hz is barely audible anyway. Most of what you hear from a bass is well above that. An old cab that I sometimes use for practising has a 12" guitar speak in it, it sounds fine with a bass through it (it is a proper ported bass cab...)

[zero9]

Smaller speakers give you a quicker ('tighter') response. You'll need to be careful to select speakers appropriate to bass and using these into a properly designed 'tuned' cabinet can often improve bass frequency response.

I use a couple of PJB 4B cabinets which have four 5.5" speakers. These are rated at a frequency reposne of 35Hz to 15kHz and are quite phenominal in the 'bass' department.

[zero9]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='955935' date='Sep 14 2010, 12:58 PM']I think that most sound below 50hz is barely audible anyway. Most of what you hear from a bass is well above that. An old cab that I sometimes use for practising has a 12" guitar speak in it, it sounds fine with a bass through it (it is a proper ported bass cab...)[/quote]

The frequency of a low B on bass guitar is about 31Hz, thus it's important to have the correct speaker / cabinet to be able to reproduce this with any kind of 'volume'.

[Colledge]

[quote name='zero9' post='955939' date='Sep 14 2010, 01:05 PM']The frequency of a low B on bass guitar is about 31Hz, thus it's important to have the correct speaker / cabinet to be able to reproduce this with any kind of 'volume'.[/quote]
the fundamental is, and to get your trousers flapping, yeah you do need the extra low response, but most of what you hear is not the fundamentals.

[Bassist on the Run]

the swr henry 8x8 use a celestion bg8-60. i did own one which was blown!! another ebay purchase!
i checked em out on the web for reviews and could not find a bad word about them....maybe you could get hold of the speakers?
hope you find what your looking for

[chris_b]

I know someone using the SWR 8x8 cab. He's very loud which is probably why he's blown every speaker over the last 5 years. I wouldn't use 8's.

Edited September 14, 2010 by chris_b

[fatback]

[quote name='zero9' post='955937' date='Sep 14 2010, 01:01 PM']Smaller speakers give you a quicker ('tighter') response. You'll need to be careful to select speakers appropriate to bass and using these into a properly designed 'tuned' cabinet can often improve bass frequency response.

I use a couple of PJB 4B cabinets which have four 5.5" speakers. These are rated at a frequency reposne of 35Hz to 15kHz and are quite phenominal in the 'bass' department.[/quote]


Heard a lad using a couple of these cabs at a gig recently and the bass sound was first class. Tight and deep.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='fryer' post='955744' date='Sep 14 2010, 04:37 AM']I'm thinking of building a bass cabinet. Normally cabs have 10" or 12" speakers. 8" speakers aren't listed as bass speakers on Blue Aran. Those that are listed only go down to say 50 Hz, so how do say Markbass get a bass sound from 4 of them in a cabinet ?[/quote]
Getting eights to run to even 30Hz is no major accomplishment, they're common in hi-fi. The problem with eights is displacement, and that's what limits low frequency output. A good eight has about 70cc of displacement, so that's 280cc with four of them. Even a middle of the road fifteen has 400cc displacement, while a high end fifteen can have over 800cc.
[quote]Smaller speakers give you a quicker ('tighter') response.[/quote]No, they don't. All drivers respond to signal at the exact same speed. Where smaller drivers have the advantage is in high frequency extension and dispersion. Eights can have midrange extension and dispersion twice that of a fifteen, so using a fifteen for the lows and an eight for the mids is a logical arrangement. Using eights for the lows, not so much.

[ShergoldSnickers]

The speaker dimension is only one of dozens of factors that can affect the bass extension a speaker is capable of, and of itself doesn't tell you much about the end result once put in a cabinet. Others are:

Cone suspension compliance - how hard it is to move the cone
The enclosure type and dimensions
Port tuning if a ported enclosure
The free air resonance of the driver and how it resonates - over a shallow hump of frequencies or over a very tight and pronounced peak.
Cone mass

This is before other factors such as response smoothness, efficiency considerations, crossover design (if a crossover is present) are taken into consideration. Given a credible designer, and enough time and money, it would be quite possible to design several enclosures, each using one or more speakers of differing dimension to that used in the other enclosures, but all giving similar results. There is nothing inherently good or bad about big or small speakers for bass reproduction. Other than needing lots of small ones if that's the way you go.

Practical considerations usually dictate the most sensible way through a problem for a given situation though. Speaker enclosure design is all compromise. The trick is getting the cleverest compromise with what you have to hand and that still meets your main goals. Your main goal may be cost. Or it may be efficiency. Or something else - pure sound quality for example. The prime examples of this art are the designs of Bill Fitzmaurice and Alex Claber. Both ingenious in their own way, and both providing something that most major manufacturers seem unable or unwilling to do.

Edited for a modicum of clarity.

Edited September 14, 2010 by ShergoldSnickers

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='zero9' post='955939' date='Sep 14 2010, 01:05 PM']The frequency of a low B on bass guitar is about 31Hz, thus it's important to have the correct speaker / cabinet to be able to reproduce this with any kind of 'volume'.[/quote]

Understood but my point was that I don't think reproducing those fundamentals of lower notes at volume is that important. Just my opinion. Different desks I've used will cut all frequencies on a channel below a set point eg 50 or 80hz. It makes hardly any difference to the [i]audible[/i] bass when you do cut there.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='956085' date='Sep 14 2010, 10:14 AM']Understood but my point was that I don't think reproducing those fundamentals of lower notes at volume is that important.[/quote]Quite right. The Fridge has a 58 Hz F3. Electric bass is defined by the harmonics.

[steve-soar]

8" speakers for bass guitar are about as useful as Michael Barrymore being a swimming attendant.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='956384' date='Sep 14 2010, 07:01 PM']8" speakers for bass guitar are about as useful as Michael Barrymore being a swimming attendant.[/quote]

Agreed, I would never use 10's either unless in conjunction with 1 or preferably 2 15's!

Don't even talk to me about 12" speakers for bass....

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='956517' date='Sep 14 2010, 08:47 PM']Agreed, I would never use 10's either unless in conjunction with 1 or preferably 2 15's!

Don't even talk to me about 12" speakers for bass....[/quote]

There are pretty awesome bass cabs with 12" speakers. The diameter of the speaker isn't the important bit.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='956726' date='Sep 14 2010, 06:07 PM']There are pretty awesome bass cabs with 12" speakers. The diameter of the speaker isn't the important bit.[/quote]Also quite right. For all the hoopla made about how different size drivers sound most of it is uninformed conjecture. The only factor influenced by driver size alone is dispersion. Everything else is determined by a dozen odd T/S specs, with driver cone area (Sd) being only one of them, and a rather insignificant one at that.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[casapete]

[quote name='chris_b' post='955991' date='Sep 14 2010, 01:40 PM']I know someone using the SWR 8x8 cab. He's very loud which is probably why he's blown every speaker over the last 5 years. I wouldn't use 8's.[/quote]


I had an SWR Henry 8x8 cab. Used it with GK700 head which suited it fine.
Absolutely superb thing, more bass than you'd ever need!
Dont forget the reluctance of the bass world to accept 10 inch speakers not that long ago, and now look.......

If it had n't been so heavy would still be using it now.( Easier than an 8x10 though ).

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='956745' date='Sep 14 2010, 11:34 PM']Also quite right. For all the hoopla made about how different size drivers sound most of it is uninformed conjecture. The only factor influenced by driver size alone is dispersion. Everything else is determined by a dozen odd T/S specs, with driver cone area (Sd) being only one of them, and a rather insignificant one at that.[/quote]

Fair point, but I was just really only stating my own personal preference.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='956726' date='Sep 14 2010, 11:07 PM']There are pretty awesome bass cabs with 12" speakers. The diameter of the speaker isn't the important bit.[/quote]

+1

Unless it's a 15". I just don't think I could get away with a single 15" cab, they need to be paired with something to give them some zing and top end!

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='957706' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:17 PM']+1

Unless it's a 15". I just don't think I could get away with a single 15" cab, they need to be paired with something to give them some zing and top end![/quote]

I don't want any zing or top end though....

[Merton]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='957706' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:17 PM']+1

Unless it's a 15". I just don't think I could get away with a single 15" cab, they need to be paired with something to give them some zing and top end![/quote]
You should try a Compact or my Vintage. More than enough zing for almost anything

[Chris2112]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='957714' date='Sep 15 2010, 09:20 PM']I don't want any zing or top end though....[/quote]

Well, I guess some players like to be heard (I do) and some are content to sit in the mix, like wallflowers swaying in the breeze!