Overly loud drummers

[deathpanda]

this is [i]why[/i]

Travis Barker

needs to [b]die[/b]

Edited September 18, 2010 by deathpanda

[ironside1966]

[quote name='JTUK' post='959849' date='Sep 17 2010, 07:49 PM']bad...?? do you mean a bad player..?

Do you mean he will pee off the punters or landlord/proprietor?

A bad mix is a bad mix

A too loud mix is a too loud mix..
We don't have bad mixes where all you can hear is one instrument, can't hear the vocals or anything remotely like that.
I don't think we have had a bad recording mix of the band at all..and all we do is throw a zoom dev up in the corner of the room.
Of all the rough zoom recordings we have done, they have all ( or tracks from them ) ended up on the band website as examples of our live sound.[/quote]

As stated earlier often the reasons drummers can’t play quite is because they lack the ability and like to stay in their comfort zone other reasons are more selfish and this goes for other musicians also, they think that the instrument will not sound as good unless its loud so they are prepared to sacrifice the sound of the bad for their instruments.
Inappropriate and excessive volume will upset venue owners and promoters and the result is loss of gigs. If a venue as constant complaints from neighbors then they may lose their license so you spoil it for every one you may be the final straw.
It doesn’t take long to take the audiences hearing out so all the subtle chord changers and dynamics soon becomes blurred. Volume can cover a multitude of sins.
Every time a punter walks out because it’s too loud you lose potential fans.
Microphones are not like ears they can handle higher SPL does not deteriorate at prolonged exposure to high SPL.
A loud drum kit in a confined space and cause permanent damage to ears as it can reach SPLs of 110db.
I am not having a go loud bands just loud bands in inappropriate places and situations.

[JTUK]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='960402' date='Sep 18 2010, 02:17 PM']As stated earlier often the reasons drummers can’t play quite is because they lack the ability and like to stay in their comfort zone other reasons are more selfish and this goes for other musicians also, they think that the instrument will not sound as good unless its loud so they are prepared to sacrifice the sound of the bad for their instruments.
Inappropriate and excessive volume will upset venue owners and promoters and the result is loss of gigs. If a venue as constant complaints from neighbors then they may lose their license so you spoil it for every one you may be the final straw.
It doesn’t take long to take the audiences hearing out so all the subtle chord changers and dynamics soon becomes blurred. Volume can cover a multitude of sins.
Every time a punter walks out because it’s too loud you lose potential fans.
Microphones are not like ears they can handle higher SPL does not deteriorate at prolonged exposure to high SPL.
A loud drum kit in a confined space and cause permanent damage to ears as it can reach SPLs of 110db.
I am not having a go loud bands just loud bands in inappropriate places and situations.[/quote]


Nope, no, no, and thrice no etc etc .

None of that applies.
This guy does not lack any ability and I have said so repeatedly, so I don't know why people keep going back to a none existant issue in that regard.
I don't know the standard of guys you know and use but this guy is right up there, IMV.
And, even if I do say so myself, I DO know about drummers.

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' post='960714' date='Sep 18 2010, 07:57 PM']I don't know why people keep going back to a none existant issue in that regard.[/quote]

Because you said you have a loud drummer on a thread where people are discussing situations where a loud drummer who can't play quietly is a problem. If your loud drummer can play quietly then its not a problem for you. What is your point?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='JTUK' post='960714' date='Sep 18 2010, 07:57 PM']This guy does not lack any ability[/quote]
...apart from the ability to play quietly.

[TimR]

I've just got back from watching your average pub band. Maybe not so average...

The bass player was a bit busy - all over the neck like a rash, could have done with laying down a few solid riffs, but then he was playing and I wasn't....

BUT the drummer had really good feel, control and dynamics. I spoke to him after the gig. He also plays guitar.

Maybe it should be law that drummers learn a musical instrument.

Maybe it should be law that musicians spend some time behind a drum kit.

Bit like the car drivers v motorcyclists argument.

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='960745' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:27 PM']...apart from the ability to play quietly.[/quote]

He can play at low levels, of course.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' post='960743' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:24 PM']Because you said you have a loud drummer on a thread where people are discussing situations where a loud drummer who can't play quietly is a problem. If your loud drummer can play quietly then its not a problem for you. What is your point?[/quote]


My point is that people seem to imply that because he is loud, he lacks ability and the ability to play quiet...and keep on going round and round on that subject when it is just isn't the case.
I could have left this threads ages ago but for people jumping to a wrong conclusion.

He can play quiet but the bands sounds so much better when it is blazing.

[Marvin]

[quote name='JTUK' post='960926' date='Sep 19 2010, 08:56 AM']My point is that people seem to imply that because he is loud, he lacks ability and the ability to play quiet...and keep on going round and round on that subject when it is just isn't the case.
I could have left this threads ages ago but for people jumping to a wrong conclusion.

He can play quiet but the bands sounds so much better when it is blazing.[/quote]

From your original contribution I think many of us assumed that your drummer could [u]only[/u] play loud. I'm afraid it wasn't very clear that he could reign it in, but that as you say in your last post it "sounds so much better when it is blazing".

That's all really, your first post made him sound a little limited.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Marvin' post='960931' date='Sep 19 2010, 09:04 AM']From your original contribution I think many of us assumed that your drummer could [u]only[/u] play loud. I'm afraid it wasn't very clear that he could reign it in, but that as you say in your last post it "sounds so much better when it is blazing".

That's all really, your first post made him sound a little limited. [/quote]


Maybe that first post wasn't as clear.. but he is not limited, for sure.
He was recommended very highly by a guy that we wanted as 1st choice.
I have since been on gigs with both in other bands, and I think this guy is better.
My initial reservation was that I had not come across him in the gigs that I have
done over the years, and normally everyone ( that I tend to know..or maybe that is why I know them, ha ha ) gravitates towards deps and jazzers.
So this guy was an unknown in that respect as he tends to graviate towards heavier acts whereas we were more funk/soul etc etc.
I knew of him but in things like this I need to see for myself. What some rate and why, is down to them and it may not be my thinking.

As it turned out, the first guy said he couldn't take our gig for 5-6 months as he had too many shows to do
so we tried our current guy. Now, the '1st choice' is available, we wouldn't swap in any shape or form for the one we have.

Regards to volume, like most bands we need or tend to start at a low volume and go from there.
The rest of the band can think that 1st set is very good ( and sounds fine recorded ) whereas I tend to like and enjoy the second sets when things are flying and people are going for it. The drummer and me seem to like that more as that is in our make-up as players.

[Prime_BASS]

Our drummer is th typical "look at meat the back!" then does a loud and long drum roll.

If he gets annoying I ask him to play quietly, his response is usually "it sounds crap quiet", and I say that if he is so good he can make it sound good quiet then he does it.

[RockfordStone]

get a decent set of ear plugs, and dont stand near the drummer
alternatively, replace him with a drum machine

[ironside1966]

No one’s having a go at loud drummer’s just drummers who can’t or won’t play quiet when needed.

[mep]

[quote name='TimR' post='960847' date='Sep 18 2010, 11:59 PM']BUT the drummer had really good feel, control and dynamics. I spoke to him after the gig. He also plays guitar.

Maybe it should be law that drummers learn a musical instrument.

Maybe it should be law that musicians spend some time behind a drum kit.

Bit like the car drivers v motorcyclists argument.[/quote]

Good point. Our drummer has started to learn guitar, and is also getting into orchestral parts.

Unfortunately even though I like drums I'm quite bad on them, but again good point.

As a biker I think it would be great if every car driver had to take the motorbike CBT.

[Phil Starr]

Just did a first gig with a new drummer who uses an electronic kit. It doesn't sound as dynamic as skins but the band sounded a whole lot better overall. In fact modify that statement about sounding dynamic, the kicks really came through and we really locked in (me bassist) when things picked up later in the set. In addition our singer just took off. With a lower on stage volume and no bleed through on the vocal mics. she could really hear her own voice and there was so much more nuance to her singing.

A drummer with a volume control... bliss.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='961129' date='Sep 19 2010, 01:00 PM']Just did a first gig with a new drummer who uses an electronic kit. It doesn't sound as dynamic as skins but the band sounded a whole lot better overall. In fact modify that statement about sounding dynamic, the kicks really came through and we really locked in (me bassist) when things picked up later in the set. In addition our singer just took off. With a lower on stage volume and no bleed through on the vocal mics. she could really hear her own voice and there was so much more nuance to her singing.

A drummer with a volume control... bliss.[/quote]

I hate electro kits unless it's for electro music.. like using a CD on record deck or using a pocket amp with a vintage bass

[ironside1966]

In the past I have done quite a bit of work where the band leader wanted to keep the volume as low as possible and its great, you can really hear what’s going off. Sometimes it’s nice to listen how the harmony works, hear the subtle arrangements and tasteful little runs or riffs , it’s nice to work with great vocals where the singers not to screaming to get over the band.
I know that groove and feel are important and you don’t have to lose it because you are quiet.
Any musician in a group or ensemble is only as good as their contribution to the said group or ensemble if the musician brings the music down by playing too loud or over playing then I question the ability or musicality of the said musician.

[wateroftyne]

I like playing fairly quiet for a lot of reasons, not least that it's nice to have some ooomph in the tank left for when the tune needs it.

There's nowt worse than having nowhere to go, dynamically speaking.

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='961310' date='Sep 19 2010, 04:57 PM']In the past I have done quite a bit of work where the band leader wanted to keep the volume as low as possible and its great, you can really hear what’s going off. Sometimes it’s nice to listen how the harmony works, hear the subtle arrangements and tasteful little runs or riffs , it’s nice to work with great vocals where the singers not to screaming to get over the band.
I know that groove and feel are important and you don’t have to lose it because you are quiet.
Any musician in a group or ensemble is only as good as their contribution to the said group or ensemble if the musician brings the music down by playing too loud or over playing then I question the ability or musicality of the said musician.[/quote]
I'm pretty much in sympathy with what you say and I love the sound of drums but not all drummers are good enough to control the volume and keep the same level of attack, just as I'm not a particularly good bass player. Should we just not play and let down our singer who is rather good? I'm just saying that it is the overall sound of the band that matters and not just that of one musician,

The devil in me wants to ask what you think of the sound of an upright rather than an electric bass or even an electric guitar rather than an acoustic?

[ironside1966]

[quote name='Phil Starr' post='961410' date='Sep 19 2010, 06:47 PM'],

The devil in me wants to ask what you think of the sound of an upright rather than an electric bass or even an electric guitar rather than an acoustic?[/quote]

I love sound of the double bass and it can work well never been fond of the electro acoustic, but I like the 60s semi acoustic bass, its how the sound in the band that counts.

[darkandrew]

BISCUITS! I've always found that drummers can't resist a packet of biscuits and of course it's quite difficult for them to bash seven shades of brown stuff out of a drum kit while they're munching on a hobnob.