4000 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) On 09/03/2015 at 18:38, spectoremg said: Point of order, Kate Bush is certainly NOT a genius! Maybe time for another thread, 'Kate Bush - Genius or Pretentious Luvvy' Joni Mitchell is a genius - La Bush ain't in the same league. I'd say they both are, except I love Bush and don't like Mitchell at all. KB apparently wrote The Man With The Child in His Eyes at 13. If that's not bloody genius I don't know what is. Edited March 21, 2019 by 4000 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Great songs ,its fair to say Kate was a Bass fan for a lot of stuff from there .Mick karn,Eberhard weber and her fella Del palmer playing some great Fretless stuff Del's facebook page has him doing some recent tribute band stuff on fretless and its excellent .Babooshka included .The Dreaming album has some great bass work on 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectoremg Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 hours ago, 4000 said: I'd say they both are, except I love Bush and don't like Mitchell at all. KB apparently wrote The Man With The Child in His Eyes at 13. If that's not bloody genius I don't know what is. Let's make a list of all Kate's genius songs - you might get enough for an old-style EP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 As a long time fan of both Joni Mitchell and Kate Bush, it's seems to me to be an utterly pointless argument to say that one of them is a (musical) genius, whilst the other is not. They are both extraordinarily talented songwriters, singers and musicians in their own right but they come from very different cultural and artistic backgrounds IMO, which makes comparing them more about personal preference and opinion than fact. Their back catalogues, record sales, worldwide fan bases and respect from amongst their own musical peer groups tells its own story though and they both have those things in abundance. I'm just grateful that they have made the fantastic music they have over the years; my life's been all the richer for it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 On 09/03/2015 at 18:38, spectoremg said: Point of order, Kate Bush is certainly NOT a genius! Maybe time for another thread, 'Kate Bush - Genius or Pretentious Luvvy' Joni Mitchell is a genius - La Bush ain't in the same league. Female geniuses include Joni, Kate and I'll add Bjork just to get your goat... Evidence: Kate - 'Hounds of Love' - Admittedly not JG on this - Delbert Palmer and Eberhard Weber not too shabby Joni - where do you start? I'll go 'Hejira' for the bass angle with Jaco's sublime contributions Bjork - 'Vespertine' for all her saucy songs about shagging but they are amazing... (sorry no bass guitar AFAIK) So point of order denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Ah, the old "I like X & don't like Y, therefore X is brilliant & Y is crap and that's a fact" chestnut. Comes round as regularly as a number 9 bus, this. Popcorn, anyone? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Just now, UglyDog said: Ah, the old "I like X & don't like Y, therefore X is brilliant & Y is crap and that's a fact" chestnut. Comes round as regularly as a number 9 bus, this. Popcorn, anyone? Very meta - it's called 'life' - get involved with an opinion, not an observation on process. UglyDog - get off the fence: KB - genius or not? PS no wrong answer... just boring ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyDog Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 I like this fence. It's a nice fence. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Good to see Bjork's name added into the debate.. Definitely another unique, genius level female artist of the last 25 years... 😊 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 19 hours ago, spectoremg said: Let's make a list of all Kate's genius songs - you might get enough for an old-style EP I Thought" she's better than here" type stuff was left behind when we left school .Don't see any comparison in their stuff at all .Both done great stuff ,Kate more to my taste and that's purely on diversity.Ballads to Screaming mad banshee ,Piano to Fairlights,Bulgarian folk backing singers to didgereedoos 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray5 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Ok, so we've established (quite rightly) that both KB and JM are both musical geniuses (genii?). To the less-enlightened out there - tough! But are there any other, specifically female, artists who have a similar long-term tie with a super bassist? For example, another favourite of mine for many, many years has been Bonnie Raitt who in her earlier period had Freebo on bass until he was ousted in the early 80's. Maybe not in the same mould as Jaco or even Giblin, but a very solid and complementary player, all the same. Any other female+bassist recommendations? [p.s. - I know we could also reverse this, such as Tal W. and Rhonda S. with Jeff Beck, but I'm currently more interested in the female plus (male or female) bassist pairings] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Stingray5 said: Ok, so we've established (quite rightly) that both KB and JM are both musical geniuses (genii?). To the less-enlightened out there - tough! But are there any other, specifically female, artists who have a similar long-term tie with a super bassist? For example, another favourite of mine for many, many years has been Bonnie Raitt who in her earlier period had Freebo on bass until he was ousted in the early 80's. Maybe not in the same mould as Jaco or even Giblin, but a very solid and complementary player, all the same. Any other female+bassist recommendations? [p.s. - I know we could also reverse this, such as Tal W. and Rhonda S. with Jeff Beck, but I'm currently more interested in the female plus (male or female) bassist pairings] Maybe Females don't feel threatened by a good Bass player ?No egos or upstaging , I Think they get Bass . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Siouxsie Sioux and Steven Severin? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 19 hours ago, silverfoxnik said: As a long time fan of both Joni Mitchell and Kate Bush, it's seems to me to be an utterly pointless argument to say that one of them is a (musical) genius, whilst the other is not. They are both extraordinarily talented songwriters, singers and musicians in their own right but they come from very different cultural and artistic backgrounds IMO, which makes comparing them more about personal preference and opinion than fact. Their back catalogues, record sales, worldwide fan bases and respect from amongst their own musical peer groups tells its own story though and they both have those things in abundance. I'm just grateful that they have made the fantastic music they have over the years; my life's been all the richer for it. Agree 100% Nik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Cheers Chris, Just trying to keep the discussion moving along.. 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 2 hours ago, silverfoxnik said: Siouxsie Sioux and Steven Severin? Sioixie - agreed although I think her most notable musical collaborators were Budgie and John McGeoch... 3 hours ago, Stingray5 said: Any other female+bassist recommendations? Annie Haslam and Jon Camp In Renaissance? Chaka Khan and Anthony Jackson? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 19 March 2019 at 11:18, Stingray5 said: I will say that Joni is and always has been my absolute 'number one' female artist/singer/songwriter... ever. But I've also said that (imho), in terms of originality, production and character, Kate runs an extremely close second and, for me, is one of the very best female singer-songwriters to emerge from the UK. But that's just me. One of the best ever regardless of gender 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 22 March 2019 at 06:31, spectoremg said: Let's make a list of all Kate's genius songs - you might get enough for an old-style EP She only needs 1 to be above you bro. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagman Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 On 23 March 2019 at 05:52, visog said: Sioixie - agreed although I think her most notable musical collaborators were Budgie and John McGeoch... Annie Haslam and Jon Camp In Renaissance? Chaka Khan and Anthony Jackson? Aretha and Chuck? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 3 hours ago, Bagman said: She only needs 1 to be above you bro. She has so many 'genius songs' it's difficult to know where to start. But if I had to start anywhere it would be with all of the Hounds of Love album and the Aerial double album ... And there are so many others too; Wuthering Heights, Man With The Child in His Eyes, Roll in the Ball, Them Heavy People, Wow, Babooshka, Army Dreamers, The Sensual World, A Woman's Work, etc, etc, etc. What's that phrase - an embarrassment of riches! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stingray5 Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 2 hours ago, silverfoxnik said: She has so many 'genius songs' it's difficult to know where to start. But if I had to start anywhere it would be with all of the Hounds of Love album and the Aerial double album ... And there are so many others too; Wuthering Heights, Man With The Child in His Eyes, Roll in the Ball, Them Heavy People, Wow, Babooshka, Army Dreamers, The Sensual World, A Woman's Work, etc, etc, etc. What's that phrase - an embarrassment of riches! +1 to all of those, Nik, and I'll just throw in a couple more faves that I never tire of hearing: "Running Up That Hill" and "Cloudbusting" (accompanied by the amazing video/mini-movie featuring Donald Sutherland). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 51 minutes ago, Stingray5 said: +1 to all of those, Nik, and I'll just throw in a couple more faves that I never tire of hearing: "Running Up That Hill" and "Cloudbusting" (accompanied by the amazing video/mini-movie featuring Donald Sutherland). Absolutely Steve! I love the whole Hounds of Love album, it's almost impossible to single out any of the songs on it because it makes for such a perfect whole IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 On 24/03/2019 at 11:50, silverfoxnik said: Absolutely Steve! I love the whole Hounds of Love album, it's almost impossible to single out any of the songs on it because it makes for such a perfect whole IMO. The Ninth wave side of that Album is genius ,for me Kate really took off from there .She'd ran into P Gabriel and it showed in stuff like The Dreaming .Much more diverse and more about sounds than compositions .No boundaries,no pandering .That Dreaming album for me hasn't a duff moment and style wise its all over 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 It was always about the first 3 albums for me. A much more organic sound and better songs (in general) imho, though there's no denying the quality of some later songwriting (e.g. This Woman's work, Dream Of Sheep, Cloudbusting, Hounds Of Love etc etc). Tbh, I have found all the albums (from The Dreaming onwards) to be a lot more patchy and over reliant on technology/sampling etc at the expense of songwriting. I particularly love the fantastic bass work of David Paton on the early albums and the wonderful bass contributions have continued since with Del Palmer, Eberhard Weber, John Giblin etc! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, cetera said: It was always about the first 3 albums for me. A much more organic sound and better songs (in general) imho, though there's no denying the quality of some later songwriting (e.g. This Woman's work, Dream Of Sheep, Cloudbusting, Hounds Of Love etc etc). Tbh, I have found all the albums (from The Dreaming onwards) to be a lot more patchy and over reliant on technology/sampling etc at the expense of songwriting. I particularly love the fantastic bass work of David Paton on the early albums and the wonderful bass contributions have continued since with Del Palmer, Eberhard Weber, John Giblin etc! Its almost like two different artists really .I agree it gets a bit patchy later but I like the random madness of the later stuff more than a traditional song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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