Why would you add overdrive or distortion to an alembic bass?

[jazzyvee]

Maybe you can enlighten me here. I can't understand why someone would pay the amount they do for an Alembic Bass which is renown for it's clean tones, then put some overdrive on it. Once you put the overdrive on it, to me, you lose a lot of the sonic reason for buying the bass in the first place because I'm sure it's gonna sound pretty much like any other bass with distortion.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZ__yGE7y0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZ__yGE7y0[/url]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter as I don't play rock music at all but enjoy listening to it. That maybe the norm in rock bands as far as I know. What does an expensive bass like an alembic, etc give you when you add overdrive to the signal?

I've seen clips of Metallica and John Entwhistle on you tube with distortion on their alembic basses and sound does noting for me at all and makes me wonder why you would do that to such a great natural sounding instrument.

In contrast I've heard a track with Stanley Clarke using overdrive on his bass, but then this was a piccolo bass for a solo so much higher up the frequency spectrum and more guitar like tones. But at the bottom end..... Please educate me!

Don't get me wrong I'm not criticising these musicians ability at all, just trying tounderstand the reason for adding distortion to these great basses.

Jazzyvee

[ahpook]

[quote name='jazzyvee' post='960142' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:33 AM']I've seen clips of Metallica and John Entwhistle on you tube with distortion on their alembic basses and sound does noting for me at all and makes me wonder why you would do that to such a great natural sounding instrument.[/quote]

because you like the sound ?

[Andy]

Sorry to say, but I thought the whole 'solo' was really poor it just didn't hold my interest at all

I know what you mean though - it does seem a bit of a waste to destroy that kind of tone - could you say the same about a midi wal though? - using one of the best sounding basses around just to trigger a completely different tone?

maybe, tasteful and sparing use of effects is the answer?

[Clarky]

I can't speak for the Who, but distortion is used by Metallica's bassists (Burton, Newsted, Trujillo) pretty sparingly. In over 20 years of output, i can think of only a couple of recorded songs with distortion (for whom the bells toll, Orion; and only in discrete sections of the song) ... other than when they did some Motorhead covers. Jason Newsted used pedals to show off in his solo piece as per the clip you showed (and I agree it sounds rubbish!) But the vast majority of their bass is straight from the instrument to the amp. When they use distortion ( that live solo apart) it's because it adds a different texture.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Clarky

[Kiwi]

[quote name='ahpook' post='960192' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:50 AM']because you like the sound ?[/quote]
+1

So figure out whether you like the sound of distortion on an alembic to begin with and then figure out what you like best.

[Musky]

[quote name='ahpook' post='960192' date='Sep 18 2010, 09:50 AM']because you like the sound ?[/quote]

And of course people buy basses for reasons other than just the tone. Loving the feel/playability, looks or just GAS are all pretty valid reasons for owning a bass.

[pantherairsoft]

Agreed. Sound is 50% of it for me. Feel is the other 50%. I agree, I wouldn't swamp any bass with OD unless the music required it. Thats the most important thing… You don't always do 'What You Want'… often its about what the music needs, and if it feels right fattening it up with overdrive then go for it.

Karnivool are a great example. Jon Stockman has a stunning Bass Tone, but his distorted tone just sounds amazing, and suits the music perfectly…
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjvtx3HMUks&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjvtx3HMUks...feature=related[/url]

[chris_b]

It's a bit like driving your Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop, but I guess there are people who like to do that!

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='960211' date='Sep 18 2010, 10:12 AM']+1

So figure out whether you like the sound of distortion on an alembic to begin with and then figure out what you like best.[/quote]

+1

[EdwardHimself]

Why would you put a thread of this nature in the Gear Porn forum? It just doesn't make any sense...

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='chris_b' post='960257' date='Sep 18 2010, 11:18 AM']It's a bit like driving your Ferrari to Tesco for the weekly shop, but I guess there are people who like to do that![/quote]

Saves time and money cooking the food when you get home?

[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11071047"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11071047[/url]

Edited September 18, 2010 by Fat Rich

[Kev]

Why would you spend £5k on a bass in the first place?

Each to our own.

[Marvin]

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='960238' date='Sep 18 2010, 10:51 AM']Agreed. Sound is 50% of it for me. Feel is the other 50%. I agree, I wouldn't swamp any bass with OD unless the music required it. Thats the most important thing… You don't always do 'What You Want'… often its about what the music needs, and if it feels right fattening it up with overdrive then go for it.

Karnivool are a great example. Jon Stockman has a stunning Bass Tone, but his distorted tone just sounds amazing, and suits the music perfectly…
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjvtx3HMUks&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjvtx3HMUks...feature=related[/url][/quote]

Stockman makes his bass sound like a grizzly bear that's woken up with a raging headache. Brilliant.

[JTUK]

Well, I wouldn't get it, but then I don't use any effects anyway.

Never liked Alembic in rock circles either as the guys often use a totally inappropriate sound, IMV anyway.
The Alembic can have a harsh pre-amp in my veiw and the mids often destroy a sound..and can do so on other basses.
It is the case, IMO, that a lot of pre amps have a range and sweep that is totally unusable anyway... who needs + 15db..FCS..???
The guy from Fleetwood Mac and Entwhistle often came across with very poor tones, IMO, with their Alembics.

Why do they choose these basses..?
Why do they do it..??? because they can..???

The other things that makes me laugh is the guy from Muse swapping basses out eleventy-eight zillion times during a gig and using so many effects you couldn't tell which bass it was anyway.

I do admit to not liking any Alembics I've had my hands on. Nice woods at times, but it stops there for me.

[Wolverinebass]

As someone who uses an Alembic Stanley Clarke, there are various points for and against. I used to use overdrive on everything then I went through a phase of thinking it sounded pants. I've come to the conclusion that in general, the Alembics don't suit it too well. Mainly because you have to be so careful how you apply it with their preamp controls being so fiddly.

However, and for comparison, on my own myspace (www.myspace.com/graphitewolf) there is a song I did about 5 years ago called "How High." That is with the Alembic totally wide open, full blast treble and tons of overdrive. It doesn't sound like it though as the song is quite dense. I'll quite happily send you the isolated bass track if you don't believe me.

The one thing I've found about them is that they really don't sound good with chorus. I have no idea why, but mine sounds really wirey, weedy and frankly, rubbish.

JTUK's point about the preamp in them is perfectly valid and accurate in my opinion. The whole filter thing took me ages to get to grips with (as JTUK suggests the mids are killer sometimes) and I'm still (after owning my bass for 8 years now) not entirely convinced about it. When it works, it's great, when it doesn't, it generally sounds awful.

That's my experience, but I'm sure plenty will disagree with me.

As for comments regarding Entwistle's Alembic tone, I've never been that much of a fan of it with the exception of the live 1982 tone (see Live in Toronto) which is frankly impossible to emulate and I have no idea why. I've always preferred his buzzard tone circa 1999 (see The Vegas Job).

Edited September 21, 2010 by Wolverinebass

[thisnameistaken]

If you can afford an Alembic you can probably afford a distortion pedal. I think that explains that.

[umph]

not all overdrives completely destroy the original tone of the bass.

[Chris2112]

I think this is much the same case as Justin Chancellor playing Wal basses. With that pick in his hand and all those effects on the floor he could pretty much be playing any bass! (but a Musicman Bongo is a dead ringer for his tone!)

[Adrenochrome]

Yes!

[bassbloke]

[quote name='jazzyvee' post='960142' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:33 AM']Maybe you can enlighten me here. I can't understand why someone would pay the amount they do for an Alembic Bass which is renown for it's clean tones, then put some [b]envelope filter[/b] on it. Once you put the [b]envelope filter[/b] on it, to me, you lose a lot of the sonic reason for buying the bass in the first place because I'm sure it's gonna sound pretty much like any other bass with [b]envelope filter[/b].[/quote]

[bassbloke]

[quote name='jazzyvee' post='960142' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:33 AM']Maybe you can enlighten me here. I can't understand why someone would pay the amount they do for an Alembic Bass which is renown for it's clean tones, then put some [b]flanger[/b] on it. Once you put the [b]flanger[/b] on it, to me, you lose a lot of the sonic reason for buying the bass in the first place because I'm sure it's gonna sound pretty much like any other bass with [b]flanger[/b].[/quote]

Edited September 21, 2010 by bassbloke

[cheddatom]

I just don't understand this thread. When you buy a dirt pedal, you don't (usually) buy it to leave on for the whole of a set. You're going to want to create some contrast. You need to like your clean sound as well, plus a distortion pedal distorts what goes into it. It will sound different with different basses.

I use loads of pedals, does that mean I have to play a sh*t sounding bass? Weird.

[lanark]

Geez, why doesn't he just play a bloody guitar?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='jazzyvee' post='960142' date='Sep 18 2010, 08:33 AM']Maybe you can enlighten me here. I can't understand why someone would pay the amount they do for an Alembic Bass which is renown for it's clean tones, then put some overdrive on it. Once you put the overdrive on it, to me, you lose a lot of the sonic reason for buying the bass in the first place because I'm sure it's gonna sound pretty much like any other bass with distortion.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZ__yGE7y0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SZ__yGE7y0[/url]

Forgive my ignorance in this matter as I don't play rock music at all but enjoy listening to it. That maybe the norm in rock bands as far as I know. What does an expensive bass like an alembic, etc give you when you add overdrive to the signal?

I've seen clips of Metallica and John Entwhistle on you tube with distortion on their alembic basses and sound does noting for me at all and makes me wonder why you would do that to such a great natural sounding instrument.[/quote]

IMHO, Entwistle's 'distorted Alembic' tone is not only one of the finest bass tones ever achieved by man or beast, it also retains the unmistakable Alembic sound. I know in those days he ran the bass in stereo, the overdrive was added to the output from the bridge pickup and the neck piclup was kept clean.
If you listen to the Led Zeppelin song 'Ozone Baby' you can hear JPJ's Alembic bass in stereo, only without the distortion.

As for Newsted, I think the sounds he got from his Alembic were wonderful in their own way (not so much the solo bits), but sounded more like an 'off the shelf' instrument.