'That' fretless tone - Jaco etc

[essexbasscat]

Ok. Always been curious about this one, but usually get distracted into other things, until now. The Kate Bush thread featured some of 'those' bass sounds, which I've posted again here as examples, along with a few others.

It doesn't sound too boomy in the bottom end, perhaps a bit more in the low mids on the bass itself ? (for an active that is. On a passive bass, perhaps more on the bridge pickup ?)

THe bass just peeks through on the Annie Lennox one, but the tone is Sooo nice












Anyone have any ideas about reproducing these 'classic' sounds please ? is there some double tracking / chorus going on around here ? Reverb ?

Ta

T

Edited September 19, 2010 by essexbasscat

[Kiwi]

A hard fingerboard. Ebony or (even better) epoxy/poly coated and a single coil bridge pickup.

[BassBod]

Listen to the hypnogoat...and roundwound strings. The harder the fingerboard the more growl/edge you get. Double tracking gives a nice chorus type sound, but more human than an effect.

[RhysP]

Recording your bass parts at Abbey Road with a great producer & a f***ing huge budget helps a lot too.

[Spoombung]

Don't forget to wear a tea cosy Jazz hat and talk about "cats".

[ezbass]

Mid range is your friend more than usual here. When I first started using my fretless Ray live next to my freted Ray you couldn't tell the difference really as my sound back then was quite scooped due to the cab voicing (Ashdown). A nice kick up the mids will help you get that tone if any of the previous suggestions aren't an option.

[ikay]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='961016' date='Sep 19 2010, 11:13 AM']Ok. Always been curious about this one, but usually get distracted into other things, until now. The Kate Bush thread featured some of 'those' bass sounds, which I've posted again here as examples, along with a few others.

It doesn't sound too boomy in the bottom end, perhaps a bit more in the low mids on the bass itself ? (for an active that is. On a passive bass, perhaps more on the bridge pickup ?)

THe bass just peeks through on the Annie Lennox one, but the tone is Sooo nice

Anyone have any ideas about reproducing these 'classic' sounds please ? is there some double tracking / chorus going on around here ? Reverb ?

Ta

T[/quote]

John Giblin played bass on Babooshka and the Annie Lennox one. Some more info about the basses and techniques he uses can be found here [url="http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm"]http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm[/url] (about half way down).

Jaco's fretless tone is obtained with roundwound strings, using the bridge pickup exclusively and plucking the strings right above it. I'm sure a huge amount of the tone comes from his fingers as well.

I'm a zillion light years (perhaps further) from being a Jaco but find I can get something close on my jazz by using the bridge pup and backing off the tone a bit to soften the top end a tad and thicken up the fundamental. I find it difficult to get a solid tone when plucking down near the bridge so I guess this helps to compensate for weak fingers and lousy technique!

[urb]

[quote name='ikay' post='961070' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:03 PM']John Giblin played bass on Babooshka and the Annie Lennox one. Some more info about the basses and techniques he uses can be found here [url="http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm"]http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm[/url] (about half way down).

Jaco's fretless tone is obtained with roundwound strings, using the bridge pickup exclusively and plucking the strings right above it. I'm sure a huge amount of the tone comes from his fingers as well.

I'm a zillion light years (perhaps further) from being a Jaco but find I can get something close on my jazz by using the bridge pup and backing off the tone a bit to soften the top end a tad and thicken up the fundamental. I find it difficult to get a solid tone when plucking down near the bridge so I guess this helps to compensate for weak fingers and lousy technique![/quote]

+1 to all of that - my fretless has a thick slab of ebony for the fingerboard - and that plus round wounds and soloed bridge pup and you get this sort of tone:



M

[ikay]

[quote name='urb' post='961092' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:26 PM']+1 to all of that - my fretless has a thick slab of ebony for the fingerboard - and that plus round wounds and soloed bridge pup and you get this sort of tone:



M[/quote]

Urb, that playing is just beautiful, what's the bass?

[urb]

[quote name='ikay' post='961114' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:43 PM']Urb, that playing is just beautiful, what's the bass?[/quote]

Thanks mate - it's my custom fretless five string made by this guy in Brighton called Jeff Chapman - he's a great luthier - he also makes classical and electric guitars - this one is based on a Tobias classic owned by Franc O'Shea (he's the head of bass at BIM in Brighton but I met him when I moved there 10 years ago) - it's a really awesome bass, the tone is just delicious... it needs a little T:C as I think the circuit is either dusty or wearing out - it's an EMG pre with EMG pups. And the most unique thing of all is African mahogany that makes up the body and neck of the bass is from a single piece Jeff found when the school he worked out were chucking out a load of old shelves during a renovation - he spotted this piece, shave a bit off the top to see what it was and he thought 'that's a prime chunk of mahogany' - it's very lightweight and plays like a dream...

M

[Conan]

[quote name='ikay' post='961070' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:03 PM']John Giblin played bass on Babooshka and the Annie Lennox one. Some more info about the basses and techniques he uses can be found here [url="http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm"]http://bashkov2.narod.ru/giblin.htm[/url] (about half way down).[/quote]

Thanks for that Giblin link! I love his playing, but for some reason it's really difficult finding information about him....

[Chris2112]

It's right up the street of my Alembic, which has the classic ingredient of an ebony fingerboard to help get those mids singing through. I just go and solo the bridge pickup and pluck hard with short, stacatto movements of the right hand. Backing off some of the bass and treble from the EQ can also help. Roundwounds are also a good way forward.

[RhysP]

I was surprised to see Giblin say he uses flats on fretless in that article.

I've never used flats but I thought they basically stopped you obtaining the singing "Mwah" sound that you get with roundwounds.
I'm I wrong about this, or is there there a degree of "Mwah" that can still be obtained with flats?

Thanks for posting the Giblin article BTW - it's almost impossible to find out anything about him.

(If you're out there Mr. Giblin come & say "hello" to your doting fanboys! )

[urb]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='961253' date='Sep 19 2010, 03:30 PM']It's right up the street of my Alembic, which has the classic ingredient of an ebony fingerboard to help get those mids singing through. I just go and solo the bridge pickup and pluck hard with short, stacatto movements of the right hand. Backing off some of the bass and treble from the EQ can also help. Roundwounds are also a good way forward.[/quote]

Sounds cool Chris, but you can get beautiful long notes by plucking at the end of the fingerboard as well, Gary Willis is an absolute master at this, his melodic playing really sings, same fir Jaco and Mr Giblin too.

M

[JTUK]

You also need to get the articulation from your hands to register so that does mean thinning out the Eq and letting the bass speak.
Too much bass or treble etc will just get in the way.

[2pods]

A really low cut nut also helps, with strings nearly resting on the fingerboard.

Edited September 19, 2010 by 2pods

[Bilbo]

I was led to believe that Jaco used two Acoustic amps that were out of phase, causing a 'natural' chorus effect (as opposed to an electronic one). No idea of the veracity of that 'legend' but there you are. I find playing the strings lightly and turn the amp up gives you a better chance than playing hard. And, yes, nearer the fingerboard is best.

Here's my take on it (di'd Wal Custom Fretless bass, ebony finger board, groundwound rotosounds)

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=42836&st=0&start=0"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t=0&start=0[/url]

[Wil]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='969602' date='Sep 27 2010, 03:58 PM']groundwound rotosounds[/quote]

I had to stop asking for ground down roundwounds in my local music shop after getting chased by the dog warden one too many times.



Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all night.

[BassBod]

The Jaco thing two amp thing - my understanding is that he used a delay (echo) on one but not the other - and the two speakers interacting acoustically produced a "natural" chorus type effect, much like you get by doubletracking the same part in a recording situation. I think I saw Bill Frisell doing a similar thing years ago - but he was manually bending the guitar neck as well - sounded great. A chorus effect, but more human than a pedal.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='urb' post='961267' date='Sep 19 2010, 03:48 PM']Sounds cool Chris, but you can get beautiful long notes by plucking at the end of the fingerboard as well, Gary Willis is an absolute master at this, his melodic playing really sings, same fir Jaco and Mr Giblin too.

M[/quote]

This is also true Urb, but I find the sound and feeling of giving 16th note finger funk at the bride too much to resist most of the time

[Sonic_Groove]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='969679' date='Sep 27 2010, 05:00 PM']finger funk {at} the bride too much to resist[/quote]

Fnar, Fnar