First gig on DB

[Beedster]

40 minute set, mostly originals in a kinda bluesy/jazzy style. Monitoring - or the lack of - was a nightmare, and as had I to rely on the bass itself as monitor, I had to play hard. The pain kicked in about mid way, the muscles in my left hand started to fade to the point that I was swapping between fingers on the same note. Then I started getting blisters on my picking fingers. Then, as if I wasn't in enough trouble, the muscles in my right handed started to fade as well. I just made the last note of the last song, and only just

What a great gig though. Musically speaking, I've never felt such a sense of achievement

C

Edited September 19, 2010 by Beedster

[slap_it_hard]

Well done, but it sounds like maybe you could do with some technique lessons for the cramping & how to avoid it, as there are plenty of tricks you can do!

[Clarky]

Congratulations Chris. Out of interest could you tell us a few of the non-original songs you played, just so we can place the style better? Oh and - referring to you r babe magnet thread yesterday - did you get mobbed by the laydeez afterwards?

Edited September 19, 2010 by Clarky

[endorka]

[quote name='Beedster' post='961066' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:01 PM']Monitoring - or the lack of - was a nightmare, and as had I to rely on the bass itself as monitor, I had to play hard. The pain kicked in about mid way, the muscles in my left hand started to fade to the point that I was swapping between fingers on the same note. Then I started getting blisters on my picking fingers. Then, as if I wasn't in enough trouble, the muscles in my right handed started to fade as well. I just made the last note of the last song, and only just [/quote]

Nice one! Welcome to the profession, as my old double bass tutor says :-)

I would come to the same conlusion that you no doubt have, that playing hard due to not being able to hear yourself tired your muscles more quickly than would have happened if you could hear yourself.

So happens one of the first lessons of playing DB live: never rely on a monitor engineer you don't know, and always bring an amp to use as your personal monitor just in case.

Jennifer

[Beedster]

[quote name='slap_it_hard' post='961072' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:05 PM']Well done, but it sounds like maybe you could do with some technique lessons for the cramping & how to avoid it, as there are plenty of tricks you can do![/quote]

Thanks SiH. LOL, I've no doubt my technique is far from great, and I am using technique DVDs to work on it. In my defense though, I think the real problem (as Jennifer points out), was that I was forced to nail the volume, which meant that both sets of fingers were working way harder than they've ever done in practice or rehearsal.


[quote name='Clarky' post='961076' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:09 PM']Congratulations Chris. Out of interest could you tell us a few of the non-original songs you played, just so we can place the style better? Oh and - referring to you r babe magnet thread yesterday - did you get mobbed by the laydeez afterwards? [/quote]

Cheers mate, the set is basically the story of one of my nights out, the covers are 'Heartattack & Vine' by Tom Waits, 'You can bring me flowers' by Ray Lamontagne, and 'Helpless' by Neil Young. Read into that what you will regarding the musical style and the night out in question! The line up is DB, slide guitar, percussion, and rhythm guitar/vocals. It's a really quite nice sound.

Did i get mobbed? No, but interestingly I picked up a Jazz gig? i think some of the punters mistook my poor timing and errant tuning as mastery of that genre


[quote name='endorka' post='961103' date='Sep 19 2010, 12:34 PM']Nice one! Welcome to the profession, as my old double bass tutor says :-)

I would come to the same conlusion that you no doubt have, that playing hard due to not being able to hear yourself tired your muscles more quickly than would have happened if you could hear yourself.

So happens one of the first lessons of playing DB live: never rely on a monitor engineer you don't know, and always bring an amp to use as your personal monitor just in case.

Jennifer[/quote]

Thanks Jennifer, although I'm not sure the words 'profession' and 'DB' should ever be used in the same sentence in my case!

The poor soundguy was having something of a nightmare, although using mic only, I think a backline would only have made things worse feedback-wise. Next time it'll be PUPinto backline and mic to house

C

Edited September 19, 2010 by Beedster

[TPJ]

[quote name='endorka' post='961103' date='Sep 19 2010, 11:34 AM']Nice one! Welcome to the profession, as my old double bass tutor says :-)

I would come to the same conlusion that you no doubt have, that playing hard due to not being able to hear yourself tired your muscles more quickly than would have happened if you could hear yourself.

So happens one of the first lessons of playing DB live: never rely on a monitor engineer you don't know, and always bring an amp to use as your personal monitor just in case.

Jennifer[/quote]

+1

[Clarky]

[quote name='Beedster' post='961171' date='Sep 19 2010, 01:42 PM']interestingly I picked up a Jazz gig? i think some of the punters mistook my poor timing and errant tuning as mastery of that genre[/quote]
Ha ha - I so hope Bilbo reads that!

[slobluesine]

some good tips here..

[url="http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9859"]http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9859[/url]

basically warm up before, LOTS of water, stay off the booze

[ahpook]

well done mano.

[Beedster]

[quote name='slobluesine' post='961189' date='Sep 19 2010, 02:15 PM']some good tips here..

[url="http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9859"]http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9859[/url]

basically warm up before, LOTS of water, stay off the booze [/quote]

OK, that's three things I got wrong then

Thanks John

C

[Beedster]

[quote name='ahpook' post='961207' date='Sep 19 2010, 02:34 PM']well done mano.[/quote]

Cheers mate
Love the 'free lunch' line, although I have no idea what it means!
C

[Cat Burrito]

Well done Chris. I did my first one only last year myself & no doubt felt a similar sense of achievement to what you feel now. I think the sound engineer can often be a barrier in that they don't fully understand the instrument, especially those used to normally doing rock gigs. Art Centre gigs I always get good monitoring & a great sound, it's the pubs where I struggle more as a rule

[keeponehandloose]

IME the best way to get a good onstage sound is to use your backline to hear yourself and dont put any bass through the stage monitors,then you are in control.

[EssentialTension]

Well done Chris.

I think I may have to get rid of the EUB and go down this road myself.

[Owen]

Buy a small headphone amp of ebay (cmoy ones seem ok - [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone-amp-Opamp-2227-Amplifier-/250698821012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5ed06d94"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone...=item3a5ed06d94[/url] kind of thing) and run a line into that and monitor yourself on one side of a pair of walkman in ear things. If you are going to blister (and you will) then rub your fingertips in some superglue before you start. No, really.

[Beedster]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='961270' date='Sep 19 2010, 03:58 PM']Well done Chris.

I think I may have to get rid of the EUB and go down this road myself.[/quote]

Do it Dave, you won't look back (and see also my thread on DB as babe magnet!)

C

[Beedster]

[quote name='owen' post='961326' date='Sep 19 2010, 05:11 PM']Buy a small headphone amp of ebay (cmoy ones seem ok - [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone-amp-Opamp-2227-Amplifier-/250698821012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5ed06d94"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone...=item3a5ed06d94[/url] kind of thing) and run a line into that and monitor yourself on one side of a pair of walkman in ear things. If you are going to blister (and you will) then rub your fingertips in some superglue before you start. No, really.[/quote]

Thanks Owen, I find in ear really difficult for some reason, although I've used Superglue many times, just didn't think I'd need it last night!

C

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='owen' post='961326' date='Sep 19 2010, 05:11 PM']Buy a small headphone amp of ebay (cmoy ones seem ok - [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone-amp-Opamp-2227-Amplifier-/250698821012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5ed06d94"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Micro-Cmoy-headphone...=item3a5ed06d94[/url] kind of thing) and run a line into that and monitor yourself on one side of a pair of walkman in ear things. If you are going to blister (and you will) then rub your fingertips in some superglue before you start. No, really.[/quote]
If you want to go down that road, you could go for a belt mounted DI with a headphone amp built in.

David
[attachment=59297:IMG_1518.jpg]
[attachment=59299:D_I_box_..._monitor.JPG]

[fatback]

Let me add my huge congrats. Biggest step of all and it went well musically, if not medically.

I still have that big day to come, and for sure the techie stuff scares me more than the playing.

[Gareth Hughes]

Fair play Chris - not an easy job to do. Here's something that might help with the hand strength: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=powerball&x=0&y=0"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?u...amp;x=0&y=0[/url]

Very useful if you don't have the time or facility to warm up on the instrument. Basically it gets your blood going through your forearm and gets it ready for some work. Also, use your shoulder muscles - don't try to get all the sound you want by squeezing the neck with your hands. Think of your fingertips as pinning down the note and your shoulder muscles as the strength to pull the sound out. (Jeez, analogies are tough). This sounds terrible but picture this - if you were going to punch someone you wouldn't use just your knuckles and wrist - you'd put your whole arm into it - well, same goes for double bass.

As for digging in to get more volume - it can be very counter-productive on the upright - it almost chokes the string. Simple tips are - bring an amp (and you'll ALWAYS need one unless you're playing with band members and audience members that understand they're listening to an acoustic instrument meant to be played in large numbers) and get the amp up high so that 1) you're getting the high frequencies pointing at your head and 2) you're not getting the low frequencies pointing at the upright body. Also, LOW low frequencies are NOT our friend here. I find anything below 100HZ to give nothing but problems, so sometimes you need to cut those by way more than seems rational.

For controlling feedback - stick some foam/cloth/socks (yup, been there) through the afterlength of your strings - between the bridge and tailpiece. Those parts ring like crazy and cause way more feedback than you'd imagine.

[Beedster]

[quote name='fatback' post='963112' date='Sep 21 2010, 11:04 AM']Let me add my huge congrats. Biggest step of all and it went well musically, if not medically.

I still have that big day to come, and for sure the techie stuff scares me more than the playing.[/quote]

Thanks Fatback, good luck mate

C


[quote name='Gareth Hughes' post='963216' date='Sep 21 2010, 12:36 PM']Fair play Chris - not an easy job to do. Here's something that might help with the hand strength: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=powerball&x=0&y=0"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?u...amp;x=0&y=0[/url]

Very useful if you don't have the time or facility to warm up on the instrument. Basically it gets your blood going through your forearm and gets it ready for some work. Also, use your shoulder muscles - don't try to get all the sound you want by squeezing the neck with your hands. Think of your fingertips as pinning down the note and your shoulder muscles as the strength to pull the sound out. (Jeez, analogies are tough). This sounds terrible but picture this - if you were going to punch someone you wouldn't use just your knuckles and wrist - you'd put your whole arm into it - well, same goes for double bass.

As for digging in to get more volume - it can be very counter-productive on the upright - it almost chokes the string. Simple tips are - bring an amp (and you'll ALWAYS need one unless you're playing with band members and audience members that understand they're listening to an acoustic instrument meant to be played in large numbers) and get the amp up high so that 1) you're getting the high frequencies pointing at your head and 2) you're not getting the low frequencies pointing at the upright body. Also, LOW low frequencies are NOT our friend here. I find anything below 100HZ to give nothing but problems, so sometimes you need to cut those by way more than seems rational.

For controlling feedback - stick some foam/cloth/socks (yup, been there) through the afterlength of your strings - between the bridge and tailpiece. Those parts ring like crazy and cause way more feedback than you'd imagine.[/quote]

Great advice Gareth, many thanks. I found on Saturday that I was using my hand to reduce the resonance below the bridge, but of course, that restricts playing style somewhat!

Re amplification, it''s a paradox isn't it: if it's near enough/loud enough for you to hear it, it's also near enough/loud enough for the body of the bass to resonate with it and start the whole feedback cycle. I guess it's back to the old PUP to amp on stage EQ'd for monitoring, and mic or DI to front of house EQ'd for tone strategy. I'd like to think I'd be able to rely on the monitoring of a front of house signal alone, but given that it's often a problem with electric bass, it seems extremely unlikely to ever work well with DB.

As for digging in, interesting stuff but I can see what you mean, I'll work on that

Many thanks

Chris

[JTUK]

So, Chris, where is this mythical place that allows such things to go on?

Seriously, well done. We should catch up sometime.

[farmer61]

Very cool indeed, I really must practice more so I can break my duck with the DB aswell.

Bit of a way off but am determined to do it!!

Well done

[Beedster]

[quote name='JTUK' post='963335' date='Sep 21 2010, 02:17 PM']So, Chris, where is this mythical place that allows such things to go on?

Seriously, well done. We should catch up sometime.[/quote]

Orange Street Music Club, I'm sure you're aware of their bad reputation amongst bass players. Amazingly, Saturday they were trying to get the bass louder

Love to catch up John, keep me up to speed with your gigs mate

C


[quote name='farmer61' post='963342' date='Sep 21 2010, 02:23 PM']Very cool indeed, I really must practice more so I can break my duck with the DB aswell.

Bit of a way off but am determined to do it!!

Well done[/quote]

Cheers mate, don't worry, I think I'm a bit of a way off as well

[JTUK]

[quote name='Beedster' post='963519' date='Sep 21 2010, 04:44 PM']Orange Street Music Club, I'm sure you're aware of their bad reputation amongst bass players. Amazingly, Saturday they were trying to get the bass louder

Love to catch up John, keep me up to speed with your gigs mate

C[/quote]

I don't know it, Chris but will ask around about it.

We are in Whit ( Duke ) and Fav ( Anchor ) in Oct and the Red Lion on bonfire night.