NYC Sadowsky at Guitar Guitar!!!

[risingson]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='964394' date='Sep 22 2010, 12:47 PM']Although the Sandberg California J basses sounded and felt much better than the Sadowsky Metros through the same amp for considerably less; perhaps there is something to be said for A/B'ing these things! [/quote]

Late to the argument here, but every Sandberg California Jazz 4/5 I've tried have actually sounded consistently better than any Sadowsky NYC and Metro/ultra Jazz I have ever tried, and I have now tried a lot of Sadowskys. The Sandberg sounded better sonically to my ears and is a lot cheaper as well. I really wanted to love Sadowskys but I just didn't, and I also think the Metros are stupidly overpriced IMO. The sound is a personal thing and the Sadowsky sound just doesn't do it for me.

Also, the whole in/out of the mix thing is pretty ridiculous. If you don't like the sound of a bass then why would you consider having it in the first place? What's the point in picking up a bass and taking it to a gig if you can't get excited about playing it by yourself? It makes absolutely no sense.

[CHRISDABASS]

Getting everyone to agree on sound is like trying to get everyone to like the same food or drink, everyone's tastes are different, thats why we have so many options

Imagine a food chat forum full of people arguing about marmite!


Anyway.........

I find that these days i very rarely play my bass without the band so how it sounds in the mix is very important, it just so happens that of all the basses ive owned (too many to mention) my Sadowsky's are the best ive come accross at cutting through the mix and giving me a great range of sounds.

To me there is something about them that just sounds great in a live setting. Im happy with them, and im sure your happy with whatever great bass you own

[thodrik]

Must say at current price levels I would probably get a Sandberg over a Sadowsky if I just needed a nice gigging bass that sounded great.

When I was buying my last bass it was between a Sandberg JM4 and Sadowsky Metro MV4 and the price difference was about £200-300 between the models, wheras now its about £800. The Sadowsky just won out at the time because I thought ultra bright attack and snap on the Sadowsky just won out. The Maple on the Sadowsky necks seems to be really hard, which along with the pickups and preamps seems to give a pretty punchy sound. The Sandberg (think it was a JM4 though I have played others too that were similar) had a naturally sweeter tone, even when played acoustically, which although really really nice wasn't what I was looking for (lots of punch and snap). Horses for courses.

I don't regret buying the thing either as I had literally spent years looking for the right bass for me. I tried Wal, Rickenbackers, Overwater, Spector, Warwick, Musicman, Zon, Lakland, vintage 1960s and 1970 Fenders and countless others. At the end only the Sandberg and Sadowsky seemed to play and sound spectacular to my tastes, though that probably says a lot more about me than the quality or the basses I tried, apart from the £3500 Fender that played and sounded horrible and was in terrible condition!

[Toasted]

This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.

Basschat gold for all the wrong reasons.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Toasted' post='965059' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:14 PM']This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.

Basschat gold for all the wrong reasons.[/quote]

Here, here. Well said that man.

Oh, and next time you are looking at Sandbergs also check out the daylight under the frets....

[JTUK]

I always wanted one...never got round to finding one that I wanted to buy. Love the styling and what he is trying to do but the most recent one I came across was a guy using a metro on the same bill. It looked very nice and well made but I am not a fan of unlaquareed necks myself. He was a good player and knew what he was doing..works a lot, deps a lot.
He asked me about the pre I was using and about who made my bass.
We both had very indifferent stage sounds ( ie, not what I would have settled for with my own rig for monitoring ) due to the hired-in backline but I could probably have made a commision sale that day.
His bass needed to project more in that mix..not enough bite where it mattered, IMO, but it came across far better than the Warwicks and P-bass hybrid around that day from my ears. I put this down to a couple of things..better player, better bass, IMO..or use of it.

I wouldn't say it sat well in the mix..or cut through but I'd suggest it had a workable sound.
Sometimes these dates don't give you the time or kit to make the most of things, so you have to have a bass that sets up well
and bites straight away or get lost in it all in the time you get.

I would say he didn't know how he came across sound-wise...FOH
I know how I came across sound-wise as I had 2 bass players tell me, one of them being him.

Just a little story..make of it what you will..

[birdy]

The interesting thing about worth is its completely subjective. As someone who has owned 7 metros and 2 NYC Sadowksy's (and sold them all) I have to say that I don't think there is a MASSIVE difference between the metro and NYC models. In my opinion you pay twice as much for the NYC model and get a product that's 1-2% 'better' assuming you don't go for fancy tops etc which aren't offered on the metro's.

However given the above if I was in a position where I could afford it I WOULD PAY double to get that extra 1-2%. I prefer to spend money on basses at the expense of a decent car, other's don't. Its all down to the individual and what makes you happy. I would love another Sadowsky if and when funds allow!!

Steve

[thodrik]

[quote name='Toasted' post='965059' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:14 PM']This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.

Basschat gold for all the wrong reasons.[/quote]

I thought this too. I had felt that there was a little bit of dislike of Sadowsky basses on this forum before, but it has really come out here. Its strange that no other expensive basses of a similar style (Mike Lull, Nordstrand, Alleva, Celinder) get slagged in the same way. Sometimes I get the impression here that if you don't play Sei or Status basses through a barefaced cab with a Markbass head you don't know anything. No offence intended to any of those makers here, I am sure they are all fantastic and the amount of people that recommend them here is impressive and speaks for the quality. I just think that you should be free to like other stuff without being talked down to.

Its good that not everybody likes Sadowskys though, otherwise demand for them would go up and so would the prices!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='thodrik' post='965083' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:40 PM']I thought this too. I had felt that there was a little bit of dislike of Sadowsky basses on this forum before, but it has really come out here. Its strange that no other expensive basses of a similar style (Mike Lull, Nordstrand, Alleva, Celinder) get slagged in the same way. Sometimes I get the impression here that if you don't play Sei or Status basses through a barefaced cab with a Markbass head you don't know anything. No offence intended to any of those makers here, I am sure they are all fantastic and the amount of people that recommend them here is impressive and speaks for the quality. I just think that you should be free to like other stuff without being talked down to.

Its good that not everybody likes Sadowskys though, otherwise demand for them would go up and so would the prices![/quote]

Sei or Status?! It's Shuker basses! Get it right!!

And isn't Hartke with Barefaced flavour of the month?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='birdy' post='965076' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:37 PM']The interesting thing about worth is its completely subjective. As someone who has owned 7 metros and 2 NYC Sadowksy's (and sold them all) I have to say that I don't think there is a MASSIVE difference between the metro and NYC models. In my opinion you pay twice as much for the NYC model and get a product that's 1-2% 'better' assuming you don't go for fancy tops etc which aren't offered on the metro's.

However given the above if I was in a position where I could afford it I WOULD PAY double to get that extra 1-2%. I prefer to spend money on basses at the expense of a decent car, other's don't. Its all down to the individual and what makes you happy. I would love another Sadowsky if and when funds allow!!

Steve[/quote]

Nevermind all that.... did any of them have a Badass?

[risingson]

[quote]This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.[/quote]


[quote name='EBS_freak' post='965063' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:24 PM'] Here, here. Well said that man.

Oh, and next time you are looking at Sandbergs also check out the daylight under the frets....[/quote]


It's also natural that a load of Sadowsky owners (which I'm guessing you are) would take exception having shelled out a fortune for a bass, only for people then to say Sandbergs as an example sound better. I must say the build quality of both Sadowskys and Sandbergs were both very high, but sound wise I expected a hell of a lot more from the Sadowskys I tried and consistently it didn't deliver to my ears. This is purely personal preference and not a slight to Sadowsky owners. It's not just Sadowskys either, I've tried Pensas, MTDs, Dingwalls, Suhrs, Seis and other high end basses that IMO just didn't sound like the asking price to me. The only bass I've ever played that to my ears justified its price tag was a particularly beautiful F-Bass I tried in Rudy's NYC and also a Celinder Update 4 which was just incredibly good.

You probably shouldn't take it to heart, I keep reading time and time again on here how bad P-Basses are designed and how terrible they sound, but to be honest I couldn't care less, I love the sound of my old P-Bass w/flats more than anything else and from my experience nothing beds a track better. It's all preference. I think Metro asking prices are ludicrous but it's all in the eye of the beholder innit

Edited September 22, 2010 by risingson

[JTUK]

Not from me...

I want to like them as I like them in most of the pics that I see...very much.
As J basses go, they are amongst the most pretty, IMO..if you can say that about a bass.
Just haven't found one that I would buy. It isn't that I wouldn't spend that money on a bass....just not those basses that I have seen and heard.

It is that plain and simple.
But by the same token, this is just mostly all banter but some some don't want to hear it..and some are getting rather defensive.
oh well..

[JTUK]

yep...all for flaming some other stuff tho'

Edited September 22, 2010 by JTUK

[Musicman20]

[quote name='JTUK' post='965101' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:54 PM']But by the same token, this is just mostly all banter but some some don't want to hear it..and some are getting rather defensive.
oh well..[/quote]

A little defensive and getting a little upset. People slag Ps all the time, I dont care!

I hope people don't think I'm patronising them, but I DO feel like people are patronising me about the issue!

Flavour of the month? Is it barefaced again? I dunno...

[thodrik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='965089' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:45 PM']Sei or Status?! It's Shuker basses! Get it right!!

And isn't Hartke with Barefaced flavour of the month?[/quote]

My bad, I've not been on much this summer!

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Toasted' post='965059' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:14 PM']This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.[/quote]

You make it sound as if those parties are at fault for voicing their opinions, even if they've played numerous Sadowsky basses and found them lacking!

Basschat gold for all the right reasons, bucking the trend and being forward thinking as usual!

[JustaBass]

So....should i buy a Sadowsky or not....[attachment=59482:www_Mess..._big_006.gif]

[Marlat]

[quote name='risingson' post='965100' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:52 PM']It's also natural that a load of Sadowsky owners (which I'm guessing you are) would take exception having shelled out a fortune for a bass, only for people then to say Sandbergs as an example sound better.[/quote]

Not to pick on you specifically, but this is the same silly assumption that comes up time and time again in these type of threads. Have a think about this:

Why would a Sadowsky owner be upset if [b]you[/b] think a Sandberg sounds better?

Anyone whos be playing music for 30 minutes knows that everyone has different tastes in what they think is the "gold standard" of tone. The reality is that Sadowsky owners (like the owner of any other type of bass) probably think that the brand of bass they play is the best one for [b]them[/b], but why would anyone in their right mind assume its the best one for everybody else? That makes no sense. Think about it, if there was only one "right" bass, then everyone would play that single brand and it would cost millions. What's really important is that the player thinks that the Sadowsky sounds better. If they didn't think it sounds better then they would have been foolish to buy it. But, do you really think anyone could convince another person that a different bass [b]should sound better to them[/b]?

I have rarely, if ever, seen a Sadowsky owner get upset because someone thinks another bass sounds better. In fact, for most Sadowsky fans, its better that other players don't "get it" (so to speak) because it keeps the prices of Sadowsky basses down and the quality up. Most Sadowsky players covet the quality of the construction, the consistency and the tone together. If demand keeps increasing you will either see longer waiting lists, higher prices or a drop in quality. None of them are desirable to Sadowsky owners. Quite frankly its better that more people think they are overpriced parts basses.

What is silly is the stupid comments like "silly money for a production bass" or "its not worth it". Why? Because they are completely subjective values. You'd have to be pretty self absorbed to think that you have some kind of insight into the universal worth of any bass. The value depends wholly on what the market and any individual play is willing to pay and whether they think its best. People put different values on different things. I don't personally see the value in AC basses - not because they arn't just as well built as Sadowsky's, but because I prefer the more modern active jazz tone and AC basses go after the vintage jazz vibe. I have tried a number of Sandberg basses and while I found the sound to be fine, I wasn't as impressed by the quality as I have been with the basses that I own. Now, thats not a dig on those basses because the basses I own are more expensive than Sandbergs and I expect them to have better quality and attention to detail. At the end of the say its all relative, is a bass "worth it"? It kinda depends on how much money you've got. There are people out there who can buy a Sadowsky like someone can buy an SX. OTOH, if you are saving up for a bass you want to get the best one [b]for you[/b]. If its a Sadowsky then buy the Sadowsky, if its a Sandberg then buy a Sandberg. It would be stupid to play a Sandberg, think it was better than a Sadowsky and buy the Sadowsky. OTOH, it would be equally foolish IMO to not buy the tool that works best for you (if you can afford it) jsut because someone random internet dude thinks something "isn't worth it". Hell, if I posted my opinion on what basses I didn't think were "worth it" to me personally in a thread most of you would be lighting pitchforks at the gate!

Edited September 23, 2010 by Mark Latimour

[risingson]

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965445' date='Sep 23 2010, 11:46 AM']Not to pick on you specifically, but this is the same silly assumption that comes up time and time again in these type of threads. Have a think about this:

Why would a Sadowsky owner be upset if [b]you[/b] think a Sandberg sounds better?

Anyone whos be playing music for 30 minutes knows that everyone has different tastes in what they think is the "gold standard" of tone. The reality is that Sadowsky owners (like the owner of any other type of bass) probably think that the brand of bass they play is the best one for [b]them[/b], but why would anyone in their right mind assume its the best one for everybody else? That makes no sense. Think about it, if there was only one "right" bass, then everyone would play that single brand and it would cost millions.

I have rarely, if ever, seen a Sadowsky owner get upset because someone thinks another bass sounds better. In fact, for most Sadowsky fans, its better that other players don't "get it" (so to speak) because it keeps the prices of Sadowsky basses down and the quality up. Most Sadowsky players covet the quality of the construction, the consistency and the tone together. If demand keeps increasing you will either see longer waiting lists, higher prices or a drop in quality. None of them are desirable to Sadowsky owners. Quite frankly its better that more people think they are overpriced parts basses.

What is silly is the stupid comments like "silly money for a production bass" or "its not worth it". Why? Because they are completely subjective values. You'd have to be pretty self absorbed to think that you have some kind of insight into the universal worth of any bass. The value depends wholly on what the market and any individual play is willing to pay and whether they think its best. People put different values on different things. I don't personally see the value in AC basses - not because they arn't just as well built as Sadowsky's, but because I prefer the more modern active jazz tone and AC basses go after the vintage jazz vibe. I have tried a number of Sandberg basses and while I found the sound to be fine, I wasn't as impressed by the quality as I have been with the basses that I own. Now, thats not a dig on those basses because the basses I own are more expensive than Sandbergs and I expect them to have better quality and attention to detail. At the end of the say its all relative, is a bass "worth it"? It kinda depends on how much money you've got. There are people out there who can buy a Sadowsky like someone can buy an SX. OTOH, if you are saving up for a bass you want to get the best one [b]for you[/b]. If its a Sadowsky then buy the Sadowsky, if its a Sandberg then buy a Sandberg. It would be stupid to play a Sandberg, think it was better than a Sadowsky and buy the Sadowsky. OTOH, it would be equally foolish IMO to not buy the tool that works best for you (if you can afford it) jsut because someone random internet dude thinks something "isn't worth it".[/quote]

Did you read the rest my post at all or just the part where I said what you quoted me as saying?

[Marlat]

[quote name='risingson' post='965464' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:03 PM']Did you read the rest my post at all or just the part where I said what you quoted me as saying?[/quote]

Did you read the first line of my post? I was just using your statement as an example. I did read the rest of your post, but wasn't taking issue with the rest of it or you specifically. Hence the first line. I thought that was pretty clear.

[risingson]

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='965468' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:06 PM']Did you read the first line of my post? I was just using your statement as an example. I did read the rest of your post, but wasn't taking issue with the rest of it or you specifically. Hence the first line. I thought that was pretty clear.[/quote]

It would seem obvious that I would reply to something you've quoted as me saying. I've read all of your posts now and can conclude you're obviously a big Sadowsky fan. So then if you did read the rest of my post you will have noticed that I actually agree with you, people can buy what they want, and you're right, a few internet detractors shouldn't deter them from paying for something that they want.

[quote]Why would a Sadowsky owner be upset if you think a Sandberg sounds better?[/quote]

Well clearly they are, aren't they? The last few pages have been nothing but Sadowsky owners getting annoyed that their basses have been criticised by non-owners of Sadowskys. I didn't realise you could only have an opinion on Sadowskys only if you've owned one in the past.

[Musicman20]

Can't believe this thread has spawned into 5 pages.

Sometimes, it is good to get everything out in the open, discuss, and make sure we all have our own say as politely as possible. Hence the reason for a forum, to discuss.

The reason I sometimes chime in with comments is that I have fallen foul of internet 'gear hype' on quite a few occasions, and I dont like how much it ends up costing me. Luckily, with the Metros, I got to test one fully. My girlfriend thinks they look incredibly well made, but could tell straight away by my face, it just wasnt for me. Thats fair I guess. If they are for you, thats fair as well!

Talkbass and Basschat all have flavour of the month equipment. I always like looking at new gear, but im cautious now. I know what works for me, and the same is true with amps/cabs, (tried so many its unreal, and still havent found a neo cab for me).

The next time a Sadowsky owner disses a P bass or a Stingray, im right in there! (Kidding). But seriously if you want a tone that cuts, nothing beats a Ray...ever.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Musicman20

[Marlat]

[quote name='risingson' post='965483' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:22 PM']It would seem obvious that I would reply to something you've quoted as me saying. I've read all of your posts now and can conclude you're obviously a big Sadowsky fan. So then if you did read the rest of my post you will have noticed that I actually agree with you, people can buy what they want, and you're right, a few internet detractors shouldn't deter them from paying for something that they want.[/quote]

As I said, I didn't take issue with the rest of your post, I just used your opening line as an example. If that wasn't stated clear enough for you, I apologise, but I am not sure how much more clearly I could have stated it. As for me being a Sadowsky fan, to be honest I rarely play my Sadowsky at the moment, I prefer my other basses based on what I am playing at present. I think of myself more as an "anti-internet sillyness" fan rather than a Sadowsky fan. Its just you seem to see a lot of coincidence of internet sillyness in threads about basses like Sadowsky, Fodera, Ritter etc.

[quote]Well clearly they are, aren't they? The last few pages have been nothing but Sadowsky owners getting annoyed that their basses have been criticised by non-owners of Sadowskys.[/quote]

I disagree, as I said, I don't think they are upset [b]by people criticing the basees[/b]. Well, I know I'm not upset by that.

[quote]I didn't realise you could only have an opinion on Sadowskys only if you've owned one in the past.[/quote]

If this is directed at me its just a straw man. I never said that.

[Chris2112]

Talkbass suffers badly from the "flavour of the month". I recall when Warwicks were all the rage there near the year 2000! The real problem there is that as soon as someone states that they don't like something or someone gets upset, posts are deleted and "infractions" are handed out. Pretty sad really but I guess they just can't get on like we do here!

Even though we've got disagreements over basses the discussion continues to be meaningful and there is no heavy handed and unneccesary intervention.

[EBS_freak]

There shall now be a small interlude...

[ Enter dancing rabbit jumping up and down to a slightly off key flute etude played by a fair maiden with flowers in her hair ]

...and we're back.