NYC Sadowsky at Guitar Guitar!!!

[Marlat]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='966061' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:38 PM']And I think I at least agree with you on that one Mark! They are of course, open to criticism! Hence I shall wade in and be honest and truthful!

They're overrated, under performing basses that are very middle of the road. They're not the best basses around, nor are they the worst. They are of course very popular, which if anything gives great insight on just how conservative bassists as a whole are, sticking with "old school" stuff like the jazz bass. Of course, they're a hit with session players, probably because session players are asked to constantly recreate a very small palette of overdone tones. I guess this is conservatism and stagnation at large in the American pop music world, which I'm sure we all agree has been in a state of relentless degradation for some time now.

Quite frankly though, if you like playing what you play, then good. It keeps the great basses on the market for me ! [/quote]

ROFL. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[bubinga5]

anyone got doubts about the Sadowsky tone..oh yes its the Mezzoforte tune again...the "in the mix" sound is good enough imo.. but when he solos the Sadowsky tone its unbeatable..the slap and pop tone is very special.

i love the sound of this bass...i will get another Sadowsky one day...

i think it sounds as good outside the mix as in..poss the best distinctive super jazz sound available today IMO...

ok you may not like the feel and it didnt feel right 'in the shop' what a crock of XXXX..in the right hands a sadowsky is a beast...

just my $

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA[/url]

Edited September 23, 2010 by bubinga5

[ped]

I like basses

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966171' date='Sep 23 2010, 10:01 PM']anyone got doubts about the Sadowsky tone..oh yes its the Mezzoforte tune again...the "in the mix" sound is good enough imo.. but when he solos the Sadowsky tone its unbeatable..the slap and pop tone is very special.

i love the sound of this bass...i will get another Sadowsky one day...

i think it sounds as good outside the mix as in..poss the best distinctive super jazz sound available today IMO...

ok you may not like the feel and it didnt feel right 'in the shop' what a crock of XXXX..in the right hands a sadowsky is a beast...

just my $

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA[/url][/quote]


proof that even a drummer can make a decent sound from a sadowsky!

[bubinga5]

[quote name='ped' post='966206' date='Sep 23 2010, 10:34 PM']I like basses[/quote]
i love the pipes of the condor

[JTUK]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966171' date='Sep 23 2010, 10:01 PM'].......

ok you may not like the feel and it didnt feel right 'in the shop' what a crock of XXXX..in the right hands a sadowsky is a beast...

just my $

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc4oPqmCbFA[/url][/quote]


what are you saying.. ? even if it didn't feel right, buy it anyway..???

what are you on today..you post a thread getting all sensitive about an audition that didn't work out and now this which implies a get over it deal..!!

If there is any sort of message in the links I can't see youtube atm..

Edited September 23, 2010 by JTUK

[LukeFRC]

To my ears some things sound better than others. Other people are different.
I don't really have any problem with this.



It will cost more to make a guitar in small batches than in a small batch and less again on a production line.
It will cost more to make something in USA than Japan and less again in china.

The done correctly volume of construction shouldn't actually decrease the quality (and could even increase it) However probably there will be a higher tolerance for imperfections.

If a man in a city makes a company who make a bass, and sell it at a cost they set- if you want that/like that , fine buy it.
If another man in another city can make a similar product but does things dfferently, or pays his staff less or automates more or has bigger runs to get savings in volumes, he can set another price. If you like the bass fine, buy it.

The rest of this discussion is crap. If you have a sadowsky and don't like it, sell it. If you dont have a sadowsky and dont like it, dont buy it. If you don't have a sadowsky but want 'that sound' save up and buy, if you want another sound then look at other makes.

No given that anyhting from the USA seems to be a wee bit higher priced, compared to what warwick or status charge within the EU sadowsky arn't that daft prices imo

[molan]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='963525' date='Sep 21 2010, 04:48 PM']Most of the time, especially buying from Molan, the basses are set up way better than a shop anyway...[/quote]

Forgot to say thanks for the reference BB5

I've kinda kept out of this debate but all I'd say is that, having tried a pretty fair selection of 'super' J basses, if you want the Sadowsky 'sound' then only a Sadowsky will deliver it.

Other people come close but, to my insensitive ears, they never quite nail it.

I've only ever gigged a Sadowsky once and the sound guy (who also happened to be a bass player) said it was the best bass core tone they'd heard at the venue.

I have a couple of NYC's sitting next to me right now, along with a Celinder & an Alleva Coppolo, and when I'm playing at home the Sadowsky J would probably be my least favourite. However, those words from the sound guy are still haunting me. . .

[Toasted]

[quote name='risingson' post='965516' date='Sep 23 2010, 12:50 PM']Snobbish and condescending[/quote]

Good to know I'm keeping up to my own high standards.

FWIW, I don't currently own a Sadowsky. I had an NYC and I didn't like the tone - but I realise that was more to do with me than the bass.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Toasted

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='molan' post='966602' date='Sep 24 2010, 12:43 PM']I've kinda kept out of this debate but all I'd say is that, having tried a pretty fair selection of 'super' J basses, if you want the Sadowsky 'sound' then only a Sadowsky will deliver it.[/quote]

..or pretty any J bass with the Sadowsky electronics in it. Don't get bogged down in the mythical Sadowsky snake oil thing. There is no real secret ingredients in getting the Sadowsky tone - it's pretty much down to the pickups/circuit... it certainly doesn't come from the woods or construction (afterall, it's the same as pretty much every bolt on jazz type bass)

What I will say is that Sadowsky have achieved the reputation they have through the quality of their constuction and the like... and also through Fender not being able to get their shop in order and get a run of nicely finished basses out there. Nice one for breaking through and giving Fender a run for their money I'd say.

Give Mr Sadowsky a selection of seemingly identical wood to build basses from and whilst they may look identical, due to wood being organic, there will be a slight deviation in the sound - especially when run passively. You can never tell what a bass sounds like exactly until it's been built. The second you put a circuit in, the importance of the wood is not as great and the pickups/circuit has a greater influence on the tone than anything else.

[BassBod]

What a lot of interesting perspectives we have here. Kazoochat sounds like a winner.

I've had a PJ Metro for a few months now...got it here in trade, hadn't really planned on it, hadn't sought one out, it looked more useful to me than what I traded for it. Its a very very nicely designed and made bass, in the Fender tradition but with some good updates that make it more adaptable than a passive bass. I love it, I use it a lot. The bass feels great, and I don't get sideways looks from other musicians or technicians because it looks exotic or expensive..or otherwise unfamiliar or threatening. It sounds a lot like a good Fender, but can be eq'd to sound more modern.

But if I get too skint I'll possibly sell it on because I know it will sell quickly for a decent price. I'm a musician, not a collector (well, I do try...but the two seem incompatible, unfortunately)

That's it..all over...move on....

[Musicman20]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966707' date='Sep 24 2010, 02:07 PM']..or pretty any J bass with the Sadowsky electronics in it. Don't get bogged down in the mythical Sadowsky snake oil thing. There is no real secret ingredients in getting the Sadowsky tone - it's pretty much down to the pickups/circuit... it certainly doesn't come from the woods or construction (afterall, it's the same as pretty much every bolt on jazz type bass)

What I will say is that Sadowsky have achieved the reputation they have through the quality of their constuction and the like... and also through Fender not being able to get their shop in order and get a run of nicely finished basses out there. Nice one for breaking through and giving Fender a run for their money I'd say.

Give Mr Sadowsky a selection of seemingly identical wood to build basses from and whilst they may look identical, due to wood being organic, there will be a slight deviation in the sound - especially when run passively. You can never tell what a bass sounds like exactly until it's been built. The second you put a circuit in, the importance of the wood is not as great and the pickups/circuit has a greater influence on the tone than anything else.[/quote]

I definitely agree with most of this. I do commend Sadowsky for its excellent quality, and for giving Fender good competition. They got lazy (and still are sometimes) and needed a kick.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Musicman20

[risingson]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966707' date='Sep 24 2010, 02:07 PM']..or pretty any J bass with the Sadowsky electronics in it. Don't get bogged down in the mythical Sadowsky snake oil thing. There is no real secret ingredients in getting the Sadowsky tone - it's pretty much down to the pickups/circuit... it certainly doesn't come from the woods or construction (afterall, it's the same as pretty much every bolt on jazz type bass)

What I will say is that Sadowsky have achieved the reputation they have through the quality of their constuction and the like... and also through Fender not being able to get their shop in order and get a run of nicely finished basses out there. Nice one for breaking through and giving Fender a run for their money I'd say.

Give Mr Sadowsky a selection of seemingly identical wood to build basses from and whilst they may look identical, due to wood being organic, there will be a slight deviation in the sound - especially when run passively. You can never tell what a bass sounds like exactly until it's been built. The second you put a circuit in, the importance of the wood is not as great and the pickups/circuit has a greater influence on the tone than anything else.[/quote]

I agree with this completely but it does only serve to strengthen the point that if build quality and the flagship Sadowsky preamp are what people look for from the brand, then it can be done a lot cheaper. I don't include the NYCs in that because if you want a bass built to your specifications then I think arguably they can justify charging you extra for it, that just the way things work, but the price of the Metros doesn't wash, and I think prospective Sadowsky Metro owners could be done a favour by the Japanese factory lowering their prices as they're paying too much for a bass that isn't considerably different to a cheaper Fender/Lakland/etc etc. Jazz bass aside from a reassurance of consistent build quality. That's unlikely to change however as currently Sadowsky are in demand from so many players.

Edited September 24, 2010 by risingson

[risingson]

[quote name='Toasted' post='966647' date='Sep 24 2010, 01:21 PM']Good to know I'm keeping up to my own high standards.

FWIW, I don't currently own a Sadowsky. I had an NYC and I didn't like the tone - but I realise that was more to do with me than the bass.[/quote]

You'll excuse me for asking and I don't mean to be offensive at all but why did you buy such an expensive bass in the first place if you didn't like the tone?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='risingson' post='966787' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:06 PM']You'll excuse me for asking and I don't mean to be offensive at all but why did you buy such an expensive bass in the first place if you didn't like the tone?[/quote]

I'm guessing because in order to buy an NYC, you have to go direct... and can't really try before you buy when you are on the other side of the Atlantic. Until quite recent years, you had a job to find a Metro to try let alone an NYC.

[risingson]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966788' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:08 PM']I'm guessing because in order to buy an NYC, you have to go direct... and can't really try before you buy when you are on the other side of the Atlantic. Until quite recent years, you had a job to find a Metro to try let alone an NYC.[/quote]

But a few years ago people were flocking to the U.S when the dollar/pound rate was so good just to bring back guitars and such as it often worked out cheaper than buying in the U.K depending on the product. Think about it, if you're spending upwards of £2000 on a bass guitar from NYC then it is probably worth considering actually going over there to get it.

[risingson]

8 pages. I think I hate myself for carrying on talking about this.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='risingson' post='966766' date='Sep 24 2010, 02:54 PM']I agree with this completely but it does only serve to strengthen the point that if build quality and the flagship Sadowsky preamp are what people look for from the brand, then it can be done a lot cheaper. I don't include the NYCs in that because if you want a bass built to your specifications then I think arguably they can justify charging you extra for it, that just the way things work, but the price of the Metros doesn't wash, and I think prospective Sadowsky Metro owners could be done a favour by the Japanese factory lowering their prices as they're paying too much for a bass that isn't considerably different to a cheaper Fender/Lakland/etc etc. Jazz bass aside from a reassurance of consistent build quality. That's unlikely to change however as currently Sadowsky are in demand from so many players.[/quote]

At the end of the day, if it will sell, people will put the pricetags on their wares. If they can sell at this price, then good luck to the vendor.

As a comparison, you can get Ferrari perforance for less than the price of a Ferrari but if you want that badge, you'll have to dig into your pockets. Similarly Fodera's preamp sells for a bucketload - is it worth the money? Probably not - certainly not in terms of components... but people will buy them to put in their own basses to get the sound of a Fodera. Will their bass sound anything like a Fodera... well, yes... but the bass still doesn't have a Fodera logo on the headstock. Whatever the perception of a Sadowsky, if you want the real deal Sadowsky, sticking their preamp in your bass is not enough. If people will pay the extra for the woodwork, then all power to Mr Sadowsky. He's built his name, gained a reputation for whatever reasons - and as a buyer, if you are prepared to drop the dollar, then get one. If you don't want one, don't open your wallet. It's easy.

If you think they are overpriced or whatever, vote with your wallet. I'm sure Sadowsky would get the message if his basses didn't sell.

What you have to remember is there is a high cost associated in getting expensive US instruments over here... import tax, vat, dealer markup... it's no wonder these basses end up costing so much.

The cost of something being made in Japan is certainly not as cheap as Indonesia/China/Korea etc... and I'm sure that is factored into the final cost too. The comparison to Lakland is interesting... their Skyline range is made in Indonesia /(Korea? - I've lost track) and so the cheaper costs are reflected in their price. Now compare a US Lakland to a US Sadowsky... there's not a lot of difference...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='risingson' post='966795' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:13 PM']But a few years ago people were flocking to the U.S when the dollar/pound rate was so good just to bring back guitars and such as it often worked out cheaper than buying in the U.K depending on the product. Think about it, if you're spending upwards of £2000 on a bass guitar from NYC then it is probably worth considering actually going over there to get it.[/quote]

You tell me how cheap you can get to NYC, stay there, get a bass through customs etc...? I seriously don't think it's worth the hassle. If you happen to be going there on a holiday, business etc then maybe... but certainly not for just picking up a bass. The only cost effective thing going now is if you go over there and buy a batch of vintage basses and have them shipped back... then you can talk about making a little profit.

[risingson]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966803' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:22 PM']You tell me how cheap you can get to NYC, stay there, get a bass through customs etc...? I seriously don't think it's worth the hassle. If you happen to be going there on a holiday, business etc then maybe... but certainly not for just picking up a bass. The only cost effective thing going now is if you go over there and buy a batch of vintage basses and have them shipped back... then you can talk about making a little profit.[/quote]

Definitely, but whilst that might be the case now it wasn't a few years back. It's also not as ridiculous as it sounds, yes it might be considerably more expensive now to go over and find a place to stay, flights etc. but it's really how much of an investment you consider the bass to be. Buying a guitar blind for that amount of cash is mental IMO if you haven't tried out at least a similar style of bass. For a lot of people I know who have done a similar thing and wanted an expensive U.S built guitar then such a purchase isn't to be made lightly. It's not the most practical thing to do in the world but a few extra hundred quid would sort you a flight and somewhere to stay for a day or two.

[quote]At the end of the day, if it will sell, people will put the pricetags on their wares. If they can sell at this price, then good luck to the vendor.

As a comparison, you can get Ferrari perforance for less than the price of a Ferrari but if you want that badge, you'll have to dig into your pockets. Similarly Fodera's preamp sells for a bucketload - is it worth the money? Probably not - certainly not in terms of components... but people will buy them to put in their own basses to get the sound of a Fodera. Will their bass sound anything like a Fodera... well, yes... but the bass still doesn't have a Fodera logo on the headstock. Whatever the perception of a Sadowsky, if you want the real deal Sadowsky, sticking their preamp in your bass is not enough. If people will pay the extra for the woodwork, then all power to Mr Sadowsky. He's built his name, gained a reputation for whatever reasons - and as a buyer, if you are prepared to drop the dollar, then get one. If you don't want one, don't open your wallet. It's easy.

If you think they are overpriced or whatever, vote with your wallet. I'm sure Sadowsky would get the message if his basses didn't sell.

What you have to remember is there is a high cost associated in getting expensive US instruments over here... import tax, vat, dealer markup... it's no wonder these basses end up costing so much.

The cost of something being made in Japan is certainly not as cheap as Indonesia/China/Korea etc... and I'm sure that is factored into the final cost too. The comparison to Lakland is interesting... their Skyline range is made in Indonesia /(Korea? - I've lost track) and so the cheaper costs are reflected in their price. Now compare a US Lakland to a US Sadowsky... there's not a lot of difference...[/quote]

Honestly, I completely understand. I'd sooner be a flash bastard and have a Ferarri or the new Merc SLS and suffer the £50,000 depreciation as I left the doors of the car dealership over having an Ariel Atom. I'm completely guilty of it myself. As I said before it's all in the eye of the beholder.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='risingson' post='966817' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:36 PM']Definitely, but whilst that might be the case now it wasn't a few years back. It's also not as ridiculous as it sounds, yes it might be considerably more expensive now to go over and find a place to stay, flights etc. but it's really how much of an investment you consider the bass to be. Buying a guitar blind for that amount of cash is mental IMO if you haven't tried out at least a similar style of bass. For a lot of people I know who have done a similar thing and wanted an expensive U.S built guitar then such a purchase isn't to be made lightly. It's not the most practical thing to do in the world but a few extra hundred quid would sort you a flight and somewhere to stay for a day or two.[/quote]

Consider that you don't like the bass and come back without it. I don't think the money (that few extra hundred quid) that you would have spent going to the US would be far from the money you lost from selling on an unheard/unseen bass on (especially as it could probably be sold as new). You'd have to come back with something you could guarantee on making a profit on to avoid being out of profit. That is the thing... making profit on imports is increasingly difficult.

Edited September 24, 2010 by EBS_freak

[Marlat]

[quote name='risingson' post='966817' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:36 PM']Definitely, but whilst that might be the case now it wasn't a few years back. It's also not as ridiculous as it sounds, yes it might be considerably more expensive now to go over and find a place to stay, flights etc. but it's really how much of an investment you consider the bass to be. Buying a guitar blind for that amount of cash is mental IMO if you haven't tried out at least a similar style of bass. For a lot of people I know who have done a similar thing and wanted an expensive U.S built guitar then such a purchase isn't to be made lightly. It's not the most practical thing to do in the world but a few extra hundred quid would sort you a flight and somewhere to stay for a day or two.[/quote]

I was someone who went to NYC when the pund was at the $2 mark (in fact when I paid for one of my Sadowsky's it was at $2.10). However, it was never really worth the saving to buy it there new from Sadowsky rather than post it over. Here's a comparison at the 2:1 ratio:

Sadowsky NYC (at the time): $3500 (1750GBP)
SHipping: $200 (100GBP)
Taxes & duties: $20% x 3500 = $700 or 350GBP

Cost to your door: £2200

Flight to NYC: £300 return
Taxi to/from JFK or Newark: £60 return
Accomodation in Manhatten (really crap): $150 per night - lets say 2 nights: £150GBP
Food, beverage & transport for 2 days: £40 (and that's eating really cheap in NYC)

Total cost: £550 for a 2 day trip to NYC
Add cost of Sadowsky £1750
Total: £2300 (and you risk getting stung by Customs on the way in).

The one thing that made it worth buying Sadowsky's sight unseen was that they have fantastic consistency out of the box. Roger has a 7 day return policy (even for overseas users) and they have much better resale than almost any other bass I can think of. You can generally sell a recent model Sadowsky for anywhere between 75-90% of the new cost. Many basses take an almost 50% hit on the used market.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='966826' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:48 PM']I was someone who went to NYC when the pund was at the $2 mark (in fact when I paid for one of my Sadowsky's it was at $2.10). However, it was never really worth the saving to buy it there new from Sadowsky rather than post it over. Here's a comparison at the 2:1 ratio:

Sadowsky NYC (at the time): $3500 (1750GBP)
SHipping: $200 (100GBP)
Taxes & duties: $20% x 3500 = $700 or 350GBP

Cost to your door: £2200

Flight to NYC: £300 return
Taxi to/from JFK or Newark: £60 return
Accomodation in Manhatten (really crap): $150 per night - lets say 2 nights: £150GBP
Food, beverage & transport for 2 days: £40 (and that's eating really cheap in NYC)

Total cost: £550 for a 2 day trip to NYC
Add cost of Sadowsky £1750
Total: £2300 (and you risk getting stung by Customs on the way in).

The one thing that made it worth buying Sadowsky's sight unseen was that they have fantastic consistency out of the box. Roger has a 7 day return policy (even for overseas users) and they have much better resale than almost any other bass I can think of. You can generally sell a recent model Sadowsky for anywhere between 75-90% of the new cost. Many basses take an almost 50% hit on the used market.[/quote]

You forgot airport parking!

[CHRISDABASS]

Every sadowsky ive owned (4 in total) i bought without trying them first!

Just reading about how well made they are, the customer service, the sounds ive heard online, the fact that his fret work is some of the best around etc inspired me and gave me the confidence to just go for it!

Maybe im mental!! Maybe im lucky?!? But every one ive had has been excellent and the more i play them the more i "get it" i understand why they work for a lot of people ive honestly never looked back

Couldnt be happier

[risingson]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='966823' date='Sep 24 2010, 03:44 PM']Consider that you don't like the bass and come back without it. I don't think the money (that few extra hundred quid) that you would have spent going to the US would be far from the money you lost from selling on an unheard/unseen bass on (especially as it could probably be sold as new). You'd have to come back with something you could guarantee on making a profit on to avoid being out of profit. That is the thing... making profit on imports is increasingly difficult.[/quote]

I think it balances out quite well. It's not cheap, sure, but neither is the bass you're hoping to buy. The point being it is certainly something that I and many other musicians I know would consider doing if I was going to spend that sort of money on an instrument.