Too loud, no sensitivity, no articulation..

[Stingray5]

I wouldn't say you're being a snob, B5
You mentioned the keyword in your OP -- which some bands just don't seem to get -- 'dynamics'.

[Pete Academy]

I can't stand too much volume, both listening and performing. It's f***ed up my hearing over the years.

We get a comfortable stage volume first, then the sound guy brings it through the PA.

I suppose it depends on the type of music.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='965750' date='Sep 23 2010, 04:06 PM']i guess im being a snob and its just fun after all? i just like what i like...[/quote]

I couldn't say much about loudness that hasn't already been said, but dear me there were a lot of ellipses in that initial post...

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='965943' date='Sep 23 2010, 06:40 PM']To loud? No Censitivitey, Na Articulashun? Dat's just wen I is talkin. U Shuld ear me wen I plays...
[/quote]HA!

[BassBod]

I've had to play in some loud settings and its not something I generally enjoy. Its necessary for some types of gigs and settings, but I know making an issue of it will never make any difference. Its habitual, and if people are used to always playing in a certain style/level that won't change. I once stopped a soundcheck (after the bass drum!) in a German ROCK club and just asked the guy why it had to start so F*&^%$ loud. He looked totally bemused and just replied..."but it is a ROCK Club?". I couldn't fault his logic. Put the earplugs back in.

I agree that excessive volume kills the feel of a gig - things happen in slow motion, or have to be exaggerated to work at all, and most of the time you end up just playing your part, in your space, waiting to take your earplugs out and get off stage. Those are the gigs I want to be properly paid for.

If you're not comfortable with it, move on....

[essexbasscat]

One of my pet grinds, this topic

I've lost count of the times over the years where the situation has been;

- Very little or no sensitivity to approaching how a note, a song or sound is initiated, expressed, the duration of the note

- Very little attention is given to the team as a whole

- Very little or no attention is given to letting the song breath. As a result, a wall of sound is produced that Phil Spector would have been proud of.

This results in indifferent teamwork

The casualty is quality. At the very start, each band member seems to be totally focussed on the next thing they are going to play or sing.
NO ATTENTION APPEARS TO BE GIVEN TO ACTIVELY LISTENING TO EACH OTHER AND RESPONDING TO EACH OTHER'S CUES.

I can count on one hand when this has not been the case and a band actually pays attention to 'light and shade'.

The volume issue is secondary to these initial problems IMHO. If everyone is actively listening to each other, then the volume would tend to be appropriate to the given situation by default.



I honestly don't believe it's unrealistic to have a vision of good musicianship as a pole star in a musical career. It certainly drives me on to aspire to better performances and ongoing attempts to materialise the concepts of;

- Groove

- Articulation

- Technique

- Emotion / feel

- Dynamics

- Tone

- Phrasing

- Appropriate rests, or space


I don't often (if ever) get the lot together, but I keep trying to keep my eye on the ball.

What drives me on ? the vision / dream / hope of that nirvana and the beauty when it all falls into place and the band works as one unit, in the moment. Those sweet moments will make it all worth it.

T

[bubinga5]

im not really talking about live stuff..im talking about working out how we gell with each other...this was the first rehearsal that they were giving me and i was giving them...

imagine you were recording and everyone was bashing away....

i wouldnt make love like that, so in turn i wouldnt make music like that...the two are very similar..

[bubinga5]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='966048' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:30 PM']One of my pet grinds, this topic

I've lost count of the times over the years where the situation has been;

- Very little or no sensitivity to approaching how a note, a song or sound is initiated, expressed, the duration of the note

- Very little attention is given to the team as a whole

- Very little or no attention is given to letting the song breath. As a result, a wall of sound is produced that Phil Spector would have been proud of.

This results in indifferent teamwork

The casualty is quality. At the very start, each band member seems to be totally focussed on the next thing they are going to play or sing.
NO ATTENTION APPEARS TO BE GIVEN TO ACTIVELY LISTENING TO EACH OTHER AND RESPONDING TO EACH OTHER'S CUES.

I can count on one hand when this has not been the case and a band actually pays attention to 'light and shade'.

The volume issue is secondary to these initial problems IMHO. If everyone is actively listening to each other, then the volume would tend to be appropriate to the given situation by default.



I honestly don't believe it's unrealistic to have a vision of good musicianship as a pole star in a musical career. It certainly drives me on to aspire to better performances and ongoing attempts to materialise the concepts of;

- Groove

- Articulation

- Technique

- Emotion / feel

- Dynamics

- Tone

- Phrasing

- Appropriate rests, or space


I don't often (if ever) get the lot together, but I keep trying to keep my eye on the ball.

What drives me on ? the vision / dream / hope of that nirvana and the beauty when it all falls into place and the band works as one unit, in the moment. Those sweet moments will make it all worth it.

T[/quote]this is the best posts ive ever read on Bass chat...it has nothing to do with the fact that i agree with it swear!!!!!

Edited September 23, 2010 by bubinga5

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='965750' date='Sep 23 2010, 04:06 PM']on top of this they were pissed...i never play drunk...i have too much respect for the music...that and i cant play drunk.[/quote]

This, on its own, would have had me making my excuses and heading for the car park.

An earlier post mentioned that some people maybe play better when they're pissed. That's entirely possible, but I wouldn't even consider being in a band with them.

I suppose that I'd be prepared to make an exception for a dedicated vocalist / frontman, because then the booze might feed through as part of the stage act, and the [i]rapport [/i]with the audience. Maybe.

But playing with a drunken drummer? Anyone who's ever tried that (yes, that includes me, at more jams than I care to remember) knows what that's like.

And someone who is not only a lead guitarsehole, but also a drunkard? God give me strength ...

[Beedster]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966049' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:31 PM']imagine you were recording and everyone was bashing away....[/quote]

And imagine all the great records that wouldn't have been made if not for everyone bashing away. I'm reading Neil Young's biog at the moment, and no question, there's a guy who liked everyone to be bashing away, often without rehearsal (certainly after the mid 70's anyway). Always a thorny area for sure, but volume has it's place.

C

[TimR]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='965750' date='Sep 23 2010, 04:06 PM']...
the drummer was bashing the sh*t out of the drums, the guitarist had a Gibson and was used to playing rock, so his rythm playing was anything but...The male singer didnt have a good voice, and was just belting them out...they told me there used to playing in rough pubs, not that that has anything to do with it...ok there may be a trained ear in the crowd but most are pissed of high and dont care...the only one i thought was good was the organist but he was lost in the mix.. on top of this they were pissed...i never play drunk...i have too much respect for the music...that and i cant play drunk.
....[/quote]

What you have here is a group of selfish people who want to show off to their mates. NOT a band of musicians. Learn - you will meet hundreds like them in your life.


[quote name='chris_b' post='965921' date='Sep 23 2010, 06:24 PM']No, but these days it mostly seems to be the oldies who really understand about dynamics.[/quote]

It's from years of getting mixed up with the type of people mentioned above.

[JTUK]

So, it didn't work and you have no common ground..you don't even like some of the guy's playing.
There is no empathy there so it isn't a gig to be interested in, so don't be.

You should know enough people to ring round and start stuff up yourself without hooking up with a set of randoms.....no..?

I can't see why you are surprised that this might be a LONG haul doing it this way..
Ok..you might get lucky and pick up the odd useful contact, but referral is the best way as is also swimming in the same pool.

If you are getting out there, expect to sort a lot of chaff, but don't be surprised about it being fraught.. IMO.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966054' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:35 PM']this is the best posts ive ever read on Bass chat...it has nothing to do with the fact that i agree with it swear!!!!![/quote]


Aw, dude

[bubinga5]

[quote name='Beedster' post='966058' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:37 PM']And imagine all the great records that wouldn't have been made if not for everyone bashing away. I'm reading Neil Young's biog at the moment, and no question, there's a guy who liked everyone to be bashing away, often without rehearsal (certainly after the mid 70's anyway). Always a thorny area for sure, but volume has it's place.

C[/quote]Maybe i should have said in the context of the music of the music i like and that we were playing chris...ive been in a band playing led zep and even then there was a time to bash and a time for silence....

John Bonham bashed away, but he new when to and when not to...i was round his sons house about 6 months ago and he said he was really a very sensitive drummer when he was practicing...

Edited September 23, 2010 by bubinga5

[essexbasscat]

Bands can bash away like animated thunderstorms, but that doesn't preclude playing with sensitivity and listening attentively to each other

Try 'The wind cries Mary' by JH

or, even more so, 'Speed King' by Deep Purple. Great beginning and a fine example of volume control









T

Edited September 23, 2010 by essexbasscat

[Conan]

Anyone seen the movie "Still Crazy"? Remember the track "Scream Freedom"??

[bubinga5]

this is a perfect example of a band listening to each other...the band that i rehearsed for were erm...not like this...which is a sh*tt*r...oh well it was only stroud

as shakin stevens said about Alan Partridge's biography "Lovely Stuff" ..

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etGneEo0_y4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etGneEo0_y4[/url]

Edited September 23, 2010 by bubinga5

[Beedster]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966086' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:57 PM']Maybe i should have said in the context of the music of the music i like and that we were playing chris...ive been in a band playing led zep and even then there was a time to bash and a time for silence....

John Bonham bashed away, but he new when to and when not to...i was round his sons house about 6 months ago and he said he was really a very sensitive drummer when he was practicing...[/quote]

Fair enough, although sensitive isn't a word most would associate with Bonzo though, on any level, musical or otherwise! Zep aren't the best example of loudness IMO, but yes, horses for courses and all that, so point taken.

Anyway, I'm only disagreeing 'cos everyone else is agreeing, and that sure makes for a boring thread

Cheers

C

[thodrik]

Phew, thats a relief. After reading the title of this thread I was afraid that someone had just seen me play a gig.

[bubinga5]

good god i sounded like a "ive played with a famous persons son and im a twat"....when i read that post.. what do i know about rock...not alot..

im not saying bashing isnt out of the Q...but there are times for both...ok sensitivity is the wrong word for the man..he still has some awareness of what was needed and what wasnt... i wonder if john could do a jazz gig..

Now that would be smokin..

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='966086' date='Sep 23 2010, 08:57 PM']Maybe i should have said in the context of the music of the music i like and that we were playing chris...ive been in a band playing led zep and even then there was a time to bash and a time for silence....

John Bonham bashed away, but he new when to and when not to...i was round his sons house about 6 months ago and he said he was really a very sensitive drummer when he was practicing...[/quote]

Jason Bohnam? That's pretty cool. I think you did say before actually...

[bubinga5]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='966216' date='Sep 23 2010, 10:42 PM']Jason Bohnam? That's pretty cool. I think you did say before actually...[/quote]
i did...very nice man... awsome drummer, strangely..im sure i would be humble if i was that famous..