2x15 Bass Cabs

[Musicman20]

[quote name='sk8' post='970608' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:08 PM']4x12 is also great for rock! [/quote]
+1

If I had the transport, a 4x12 would be on the cards.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='970611' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:09 PM']Cobblers. I know - I've played one.[/quote]
Indeed. Also, Howard the Bass Doc's Fender 2x15 is a seriously trebly cab. Bite-tastic.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='970611' date='Sep 28 2010, 08:09 AM']Cobblers. I know - I've played one.[/quote]+1. The only characteristic that's derived purely from driver size is dispersion. Period. Any other response/tone differences are from a dozen odd driver specs, specs which can be identical on tens, twelves and fifteens.
Where dispersion is concerned that is as much a product of the driver configuration as driver size. Two tens side by side have the same dispersion as a twenty-one, so whatever advantage they might have in the mids is squandered in so doing. So, while the individual drivers in a 4x10 cab might have wider dispersion than a fifteen, the 1x15 will have wider dispersion than the 4x10.
[quote]Is a Vintage 2x15"..? if so, expect the roll off around 3khz max[/quote]In terms of what really matters, off-axis response, 1.2kHz is more like it. Even a ten isn't much good above 2kHz off-axis. And if you place two tens side by side? Read the paragraph above.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='970611' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:09 PM']Cobblers. I know - I've played one.[/quote]


With what.. may I ask?

[Conan]

We seem to be seeing a lot of the old prejudices aboout speakers and cabinets coming out now. This could get interesting!!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Conan' post='970686' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:09 PM']This could get interesting!![/quote]
Not very. It's all been done before.

[Musicman20]

I was expecting this to turn into another spec vs ears thread.

Ive tried the Compact, and ill say it again:

Light, fairly loud, fragile, lots of lows.

Why didnt I like it?

Not enough punch, not enough clarity. I used the same amp, same settings, same gig, with a normal 4x10, and masses of difference. Confused.

[Conan]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='970659' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:55 PM']Indeed. Also, Howard the Bass Doc's Fender 2x15 is a seriously trebly cab. Bite-tastic.[/quote]

Agreed. And Howard uses a P with flats on it!!

Having just tried the touring BFB Compact I can also vouch for that fact. With everything else in the sound chain identical, the single 15 in the Compact gave more mids, more crunch, punch (call it what you like) and presence than my Ashdown 410s. In fact, if the Compact was lacking in any part of the sounds spectrum, it was the real low end. To my ears anyway.

OK, Ashdown ain't top-end gear - but it just shows that the actual diameter of the speakers themselves appears to be irrelevant.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Conan

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='970691' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:11 PM']I was expecting this to turn into another spec vs ears thread.[/quote]

Don't they all! I'd be interested to know what you mean by "fragile" though, in reference to the Compact. You mean build quality or sound?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='970667' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:00 PM']+1. The only characteristic that's derived purely from driver size is dispersion. Period. Any other response/tone differences are from a dozen odd driver specs, specs which can be identical on tens, twelves and fifteens.
Where dispersion is concerned that is as much a product of the driver configuration as driver size. Two tens side by side have the same dispersion as a twenty-one, so whatever advantage they might have in the mids is squandered in so doing. So, while the individual drivers in a 4x10 cab might have wider dispersion than a fifteen, the 1x15 will have wider dispersion than the 4x10.
In terms of what really matters, off-axis response, 1.2kHz is more like it. Even a ten isn't much good above 2kHz off-axis. And if you place two tens side by side? Read the paragraph above. [/quote]


Ok.... but still a low end thunk and slow moving sound.
I have quite a lively bass sound but one thing I garauntee will kill it more than most..apart from 1yr old strings, is a 15 in a big cab.


I can quote happily listen to a pr of 15"s in the right context with the right player but a variety of sounds is not going to come from it, IME and IMV.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' post='970697' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:15 PM']Don't they all! I'd be interested to know what you mean by "fragile" though, in reference to the Compact. You mean build quality or sound? [/quote]

The actual covering/corners etc, which I think has been discussed before in the reviews bit. I no doubt imagine he is working on ways around it.

My cabs have to be pleasing to my eyes if im spending a fair whack. Im a picky customer though.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='JTUK' post='970671' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:03 PM']With what.. may I ask?[/quote]
J, P & fretless P, all strung with old flats, through a Mesa MPulse head... all pretty warm stuff.

No sizzle whatsover, but it still growled and popped when I wanted it to.

Trouser-flapping, but not dull and thunky.

[Conan]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='970706' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:24 PM']The actual covering/corners etc, which I think has been discussed before in the reviews bit. I no doubt imagine he is working on ways around it.

My cabs have to be pleasing to my eyes if im spending a fair whack. Im a picky customer though.[/quote]

I don't think it makes you picky. I agree. If you are shelling out several hundred pounds for a piece of equipment that you plan to use regularly for a long time, you have to like not only the way it sounds - but the way it feels and looks. I dunno if the Compact you tried was one of the older ones Gareth, but certainly the chrome corners look a lot better than the older plastic ones... I weigh over 17 stones, and never felt that my bulk sitting on top of the cab was causing it any problems...

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='970708' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:28 PM']Trouser-flapping, but not dull and thunky.[/quote]

Nope. I noticed neither dullness nor the presence of thunk. Indeed, even my old TE 1518 had a pretty rapid attack - even compared to its 1048 stablemate that it was so readily paired with back in the eighties!

So sorry, but in MY experience, I just don't get this "fifteens are flappy and slow" stuff.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Conan' post='970715' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:32 PM']So sorry, but in MY experience, I just don't get this "fifteens are flappy and slow" stuff.[/quote]

I agree, you can get some excellent 1x15 cabs with plenty of presence. I bought the Orange OBC115, not just because I liked it, but because I read the shootout Tom Bowlus did on Talkbass. It has enough clarity and quite a lot of definition for what is essentially a big old 1x15 with a port.

But, I wouldnt say it could punch or provide a very aggressive rock sound all by itself. We are talking the kind of tone that cuts through like a knife.

Im no Marcus Miller tone fan, but I dont know any 115s that can manage that high end and sheer trebly slap tone.

Saying that, personally, I like my Orange, especially with the P bass.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Musicman20

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='970708' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:28 PM']J, P & fretless P, all strung with old flats, through a Mesa MPulse head... all pretty warm stuff.

No sizzle whatsover, but it still growled and popped when I wanted it to.

Trouser-flapping, but not dull and thunky.[/quote]

Yep..can imagine exactly what it would sound like.
Not a sound I would use too often but not one I would discount either should the need arise.

But, I wouldn't myself, want a cab that was throttled so low..IMV.
I would have to have a horn..but I am not convinced..ie, have never found one I rated..
that a horn and 15" is a good match at all.

There seems to me to be too big a black hole in that config, IME.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='970691' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:11 PM'][b]same settings,[/b] same gig, with a normal 4x10, and masses of difference. Confused.[/quote]

This is the problem.

[Conan]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='970800' date='Sep 28 2010, 03:46 PM']This is the problem.[/quote]

Well, it's certainly [b]a[/b] problem...

[Musicman20]

Im not having it sorry! I can be baffled with the specs, but you are NEVER going to have that 4x10 + horn (at least semi decent) punch with a 1x15. Not saying the 1x15/2x15 cant be rock and roll and throw out serious low end and a bit of clarity, it just wont sound the same.

Changing amps to suit cabs is something I dont agree on.

Maybe the band I was in was too loud...that could be the problem. Expecting a 1x15 to attempt to keep up with two 4x12 guitarists might be a bit much.

Ive attempted to use a practice rooms Trace Boxer 65 (1x10?) against a 4x12 and somehow, somehow, you could hear it. Lots of midsssss. No ideal but thats what they had for that room and we were told we didnt need amps.

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' post='970607' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:08 PM']What you are likely to get in abundance is a heavy and slow[/quote]
You haven't heard the Vintage, clearly

Slow? What a load of old bollocks.

[Merton]

[quote name='JTUK' post='970704' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:23 PM']Ok.... but still a low end thunk and slow moving sound.[/quote]

WTF is a slow moving sound?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='970835' date='Sep 28 2010, 04:21 PM']Changing amps to suit cabs is something I dont agree on.[/quote]

You don't believe in using the tone controls on your amp to control your tone?

[JTUK]

IMO...a 15" pretty much unusable as a standalone.
Some can use it and make it do what they require and good luck to them but not for me in a million years.
If I find one on stage or in the rehearsal room, I am pulling my hair out...even if I use my own amp which has plenty of EQ.

So, to the OP..good luck with a 2x15, I hope you like it.
I am not a great fan of Markbass cabs but that 2x12 with a horn and a hefty discout sounds like you would at least try it.

IMV, you used to use 15"s and even 18"s as they were the only thing to get any volume out of....but those days have gone and there are plenty of new kids on the block.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='970845' date='Sep 28 2010, 04:31 PM']You don't believe in using the tone controls on your amp to control your tone?[/quote]

They are usually all flat. I might fiddle on the RH450 but thats just because there are so many options to play with

[JTUK]

[quote name='Merton' post='970844' date='Sep 28 2010, 04:31 PM']WTF is a slow moving sound? [/quote]

a 15" is a slow moving sound...you can't hear it..?
you pull a note and you get DNNNNKKK...when you want a much sharper hit.
There is no way you can quicken that up.

I am really surprised you have never come across this..It is classic..!!