I went out without my earplugs tonight

[chris_b]

[quote name='farmer61' post='989254' date='Oct 15 2010, 02:42 PM']....Appointment booked for the 27th to take a looksee at the ACS range of ear protectors. Consultant chappy is suggesting the ER25's, I'm just a tadge worried it'll block out too much and wonder whether the ER15's are more suitable....[/quote]
When I called ACS to discuss their ER plugs they recommended the ER15's for general band use and the ER25's for Metal drummers and the like.

How loud are you and your bands? I haven't exceeded the limit of my ER15's yet, even in some pretty loud bands.

Anyone out there use ER25's on a regular basis? Can you still hear quiet count ins?

[farmer61]

[quote name='chris_b' post='989315' date='Oct 15 2010, 03:22 PM']When I called ACS to discuss their ER plugs they recommended the ER15's for general band use and the ER25's for Metal drummers and the like.

How loud are you and your bands? I haven't exceeded the limit of my ER15's yet, even in some pretty loud bands.

Anyone out there use ER25's on a regular basis? Can you still hear quiet count ins?[/quote]

We play at about circa 90db, as measured in an amateurish way, so I guess were an averagely loud pub band. We're a three piece and drums and bass are defo the loudist.

Reading on here most seem to have the 15's so I'm erring on this side tbh.

[fatback]

[quote name='farmer61' post='989364' date='Oct 15 2010, 03:54 PM']We play at about circa 90db, as measured in an amateurish way, so I guess were an averagely loud pub band. We're a three piece and drums and bass are defo the loudist.

Reading on here most seem to have the 15's so I'm erring on this side tbh.[/quote]

Just been to a pretty experienced audiologist to get fitted with plugs, and he really wanted me to go 25s. He did say that he'd get the filters changed if it was a prob, but said his experience with players was that 25s didn't cause problems cos it's a filter not a plug. I see the logic, but i'm swithering.

i hate to ignore professional advice I'm paying for

[farmer61]

[quote name='fatback' post='990325' date='Oct 16 2010, 04:17 PM']Just been to a pretty experienced audiologist to get fitted with plugs, and he really wanted me to go 25s. He did say that he'd get the filters changed if it was a prob, but said his experience with players was that 25s didn't cause problems cos it's a filter not a plug. I see the logic, but i'm swithering.

i hate to ignore professional advice I'm paying for [/quote]

Be interested to hear what you end up with!!

[ElCapitan]

Losing most of my hearing was the best thing to come out of playing live for me. Cheaper than a divorce.

[DanOwens]

This thread convinced me to go out and get a set of ER-25s. I had my ears cast on Friday so should be ready for the Christmas glut.

It's about time and I'm sure I'll be glad once I get into it but it has always been a massive problem - the plugs sap the life out of the songs and since it's all DnB it needs a lot of energy.

Dan

[fatback]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='990560' date='Oct 16 2010, 08:09 PM']This thread convinced me to go out and get a set of ER-25s. I had my ears cast on Friday so should be ready for the Christmas glut.

It's about time and I'm sure I'll be glad once I get into it but it has always been a massive problem - the plugs sap the life out of the songs and since it's all DnB it needs a lot of energy.

Dan[/quote]

Worrying to hear that, given I'm gonna be spending a fortune. Were yours proper musicians' plugs etc?

[sk8]

my plugs are back and went for a fitting on saturday; left one fitted like a well ear plug! Really good. Right not so. Also as i have odd shapped ear canals (Read small) the comapny decided to fit HF15's in as these were smaller. I wasn't happy with that so even though they were going back as the right didn't fit i've asked for the ER15's even if that means having a full shell. Don't care that people can see them as long as i get the protection.

I too was debating the 25's but my specialist said that most get the 15's and are happy with them so we'll go for them and see. Think i can swap to the 25's at no extra cost as long as i do it within a few weeks of recieivng the plugs.

Hope to get them back by the end of the month as i have a gig then.

[DanOwens]

[quote name='fatback' post='991578' date='Oct 17 2010, 08:43 PM']Worrying to hear that, given I'm gonna be spending a fortune. Were yours proper musicians' plugs etc?[/quote]

I've always used ER20s (the conical rubber, christmas tree types) but my band members were saying the ER25s just make everything quieter rather than cut out all the energy-driven high mids. I'll post a comparison between the ER20s (not moulded) and the ER25s (moulded) when I get them but it could be 4 weeks!

Dan

[sk8]

the filter ear plugs knock the volume down without affecting what you actually hear.

I've got to have more moulds taken so i can get full shell ones. This is turning into a farce. Thinking about just cnacelling

[chris_b]

[quote name='sk8' post='992365' date='Oct 18 2010, 04:09 PM']....I've got to have more moulds taken so i can get full shell ones. This is turning into a farce. Thinking about just cnacelling....[/quote]
You haven't thought this through!!

[phil.mcglassup]

I use ER-20s which are very comfortable but find it difficult to sing backing vocals as all I can hear is my own singing voice which puts me off! I tend to loosen them a bit but that defeats the object. They are excellent for songs which don't require BV's.

Would the ER-15s be any better as I find that the ER-20s block out too much sound.

Any thoughts?

[sk8]

[quote name='chris_b' post='992544' date='Oct 18 2010, 06:05 PM']You haven't thought this through!![/quote]
Pardon?

[TimR]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='992156' date='Oct 18 2010, 12:53 PM']I've always used ER20s (the conical rubber, christmas tree types) but my band members were saying the ER25s just make everything quieter rather than cut out all the energy-driven high mids. I'll post a comparison between the ER20s (not moulded) and the ER25s (moulded) when I get them but it could be 4 weeks!

Dan[/quote]

[url="http://www.etymotic.com/pdf/erme-brochure.pdf"]http://www.etymotic.com/pdf/erme-brochure.pdf[/url]

The difference between the 15, 20 and 25 is that the 20s are not custom fit. Each one drops the sound level by 15dB ,20dB and 25dB flat (or flat as is possible) across the frequency range. If you play a wind instrument or sing the sound gets transmitted inside your head through your bones, bounces around the back of the plug and sounds 'funny'. The custom moulded ones have vents to stop this happening.

[chris_b]

[quote name='sk8' post='992756' date='Oct 18 2010, 08:59 PM']....Pardon?....[/quote]
That's what I mean!

[sk8]

[quote name='chris_b' post='993007' date='Oct 19 2010, 12:20 AM']That's what I mean![/quote]

[ThomBassmonkey]

I just want to point out an error a few people are making.

The worst damage you can do to your ears is constant noise. A drummer rim shotting a snare, though it may hurt more than a guitarist playing loudly, it'll do less damage because it's not constant.

I have pretty bad tinnitus, when I was a kid I used to go to big gigs and would stand right in front of PA speakers, never wore earplugs. I'm paying for it now (at 25). I ALWAYS try and take earplugs. Very rarely I forget them. I do have full hearing range and for stuff like mixing, I can still do an alright job. I do find it harder hearing high-pitched noises though, though that's more because it mingles with the tinnitus than because it's not there.

[charic]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='968126' date='Sep 26 2010, 08:00 AM']My sympathies, Delbert. At least you're never alone with tinnitus and it's a great tool for checking one's plugs are in properly when the tinnitus is the loudest sound. Ah, the perils of yoof. I've recently moved away from musician plugs & onto these [url="http://www.ultimateear.com/Sales/squidgy.htm"]http://www.ultimateear.com/Sales/squidgy.htm[/url] - now I have no fear of further damage




Strangely enough, when tinnitus becomes really, really bad, they give you a high-powered hearing aid to enable you to overcome it. [/quote]

Just how good are these? For the price they look great.. I would invest in the ER-15s but it IS a lot of money and I may be able to wrangle these "Squidgys" for xmas

[Low End Bee]

I have persisted and want to use ear plugs. I can't get along with them though. May playing goes all over the shop when I use them.

[TimR]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='993138' date='Oct 19 2010, 08:38 AM']I just want to point out an error a few people are making.

The worst damage you can do to your ears is constant noise. A drummer rim shotting a snare, though it may hurt more than a guitarist playing loudly, it'll do less damage because it's not constant.

I have pretty bad tinnitus, when I was a kid I used to go to big gigs and would stand right in front of PA speakers, never wore earplugs. I'm paying for it now (at 25). I ALWAYS try and take earplugs. Very rarely I forget them. I do have full hearing range and for stuff like mixing, I can still do an alright job. I do find it harder hearing high-pitched noises though, though that's more because it mingles with the tinnitus than because it's not there.[/quote]

Be careful here. Less damage? It's time AND volume related.

Where did you get your hearing range checked?

Check my post on the ear plug sticky here:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=533&view=findpost&p=958996"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&sho...st&p=958996[/url]
and
the Deafness Reasearch page on Tinnitus hre:
[url="http://www.deafnessresearch.org.uk/1925/about-tinnitus/what-is-tinnitus.html"]http://www.deafnessresearch.org.uk/1925/ab...s-tinnitus.html[/url]

[chris_b]

[quote name='TimR' post='993256' date='Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM']....Be careful here. Less damage? It's time AND volume related....[/quote]
Also be aware that while most hearing damage is accumulative and you might think you've got a lot of time before you have to do anything, you can hit 1 bad event. Before I got my plugs I did a gig with a loud guitarist who caused a couple of year’s worth of damage in one night!

You might feel that you don't need a safety net until you're falling! You are also wrong to think you don't need hearing protection until your ears start ringing!

[sk8]

appointment booked for monday

[RichardH]

I am doing this as well.

I noticed that the HF15 (from the graph) mainly cover around 10dB rising to 15 at the upper frequencies. I then saw that they do an [url="http://www.acscustom.com/uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=83&Itemid=80"]HF17 "vocalists plug"[/url] as well, that is basically 15dB with a couple of bumps up to 17, and looks the flattest response of the lot. It is also a vented design, so apparently reduces occusion.

The [url="http://www.acscustom.com/uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35&Itemid=51"]ER15 in comparison[/url] is flat up to around 4Khz then rises to near enough 20dB.

I emailed ACS asking about the difference between the HF and ER range. I said I did occasional bvox, and they said either the ER15 or the HF17 would do, but that the HF17 might help address the occlusion. The HF range is cheaper too - £139 RRP as opposed to £165.

Incidentally, anyone booking earole appointments just hold fire until tomorrow - I may have found a way of getting a reasonable discount, but I'll let you know if it works after my appointment tomorrow.

[ThomBassmonkey]

[quote name='TimR' post='993256' date='Oct 19 2010, 10:33 AM']Be careful here. Less damage? It's time AND volume related.

Where did you get your hearing range checked?

Check my post on the ear plug sticky here:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=533&view=findpost&p=958996"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&sho...st&p=958996[/url]
and
the Deafness Reasearch page on Tinnitus hre:
[url="http://www.deafnessresearch.org.uk/1925/about-tinnitus/what-is-tinnitus.html"]http://www.deafnessresearch.org.uk/1925/ab...s-tinnitus.html[/url][/quote]

A car hitting you at 50 mph will do less damage than a car hitting you at 80. I didn't say it would do no damage or wasn't anything to worry about, but if a guitarist and a drummer both practiced on their own at band practice levels without ear protection, the guitarist would come off worse.

I haven't had my hearing range checked properly, but from tests online (can't remember the specific ones now) if the volume is loud enough on the higher frequencies, I can hear it.

[Low End Bee]

Any tips on how to acliatise to playing with plugs?

I'm sure the ER20's are up to the job. I just can't deal with the change in what I'm hearing. I guess the bits I listen out for with the drummer and the guitarist aren't as easy to pick up on as without plugs.