DB plucking question

[Clarky]

Been having a crack at my DB this weekend and I noticed that I am plucking the strings higher up the board than is standard. NB, the lines I am playing are all in the lower registers (in electric bass parlance, nothing above the 8th fret).

To explain, I am plucking the strings almost perpendicular to them with two fingers, just like an electric, just [s]above[/s] below where the neck and body meet. The classic way to pluck I know is at an angle with the side of the finger further down the neck.

Is there an issue with the way I am playing (volume, resonance, etc) and should I re-learn to pluck further down the neck? The advantage of the way I am playing is it feels natural coming from electric and I csn play much faster - I appreciate that I would have to shift for any notes played in higher registers.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Clarky

[thisnameistaken]

Plucking higher up gives you a rounder tone which can be nice, but above the neck joint you'd be on your way back towards middy territory but on the other half of the string!

Probably half the reason you're plucking with your hand perpendicular is because your hand is raised so much. If you lowered your hand near to the end of the fingerboard you would be forced to play with the side of your fingers rather than the tips.

I would suggest you get used to a more traditional way of picking. I still turn my hand a bit "guitar-ey" if I'm playing something fast with alternating fingers and a lot of string changes, but otherwise I think it sounds better using the side of my finger.

[Clarky]

Thanks will try re-positioning my right hand. From your reply it sounds like the richness of the tone is th reason for playing in the classical way - when playing amplified live would this still be the case?

[thisnameistaken]

Well yes the tone does change depending on where you pick, just like it does on a BG, but bear in mind the mid-point of the string is going to be somewhere past the neck joint, so if you're playing above that point your tone will be going back to what it would be on the other half of the string nearer the bridge, if you see what I mean.

Also you can get a fuller and thumpier attack using the side of your finger than the tip (which tends to sound twangier).

Amplified: Depends on your set-up I suppose, and your ears. If you've got a rig that reproduces a lot of the instrument's character then obviously yes it would matter how you pick. I just use an average bridge wing piezo and a bass guitar amp and even with my rig I can hear the difference in how I approach the string. Maybe if you were taping up the F-holes and trying to deaden your bass to get lots of volume for a rock n' roll gig it might not make such a difference.

[BassBus]

I think it all comes down to your own personal taste. I'd agree with everything thisnameistaken has said but if you experiment plucking at different points on the string you'll find the point that produces a sound you are happy with. Watch orchestral players play pizzicato and they pluck the string quite high up the neck.

To hell with what anyone else says, it's what pleases your ear that's right for you. Most of all experiment.

[endorka]

I'm agnostic about the matter of plucking higher/lower on the fingerboard, as others have commented you get a different tone from doing this. I've noted that Bebop type jazz players tend to go for the end of the fingerboard, as they often had non existant amplification and it produces a louder/more focussed/more overtoney sound, wheareas further up the fingerboard emphasises the fundamental more, but will be softer.

I'm not agnostic about perpendicular plucking in the bass guitar style; you just don't get a good & pronounced sound this way, and it should only be used as a lost resort, i.e. in a passage so fast it's the only way you can do it. Sideways on all the way is the way!

There is another thread disucussing some approaches and pitfalls of the sideways pizz thing.

Jennifer

[Clarky]

Oops, just re-read my OP. I used the word above rather than below when referring to where the neck meets the body. For the avoidance of doubt I am playing just below where the neck meets the body, some six inches nearer to the headstock than where I see most jazz players plucking. The replies above are really helpful, many thanks to all.

[Cat Burrito]

Get a beginners DVD & go from there. It'll iron out any bad habits early on. I play about 4" up from the bottom of the fingerboard. I'm no upright expert but I wanted to get my technique as good as I can early on

[Clarky]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='968377' date='Sep 26 2010, 02:19 PM']Get a beginners DVD & go from there. It'll iron out any bad habits early on. I play about 4" up from the bottom of the fingerboard. I'm no upright expert but I wanted to get my technique as good as I can early on[/quote]
Which is the best learner DVD, Tim? Or any other DB'er for that matter? I have an ancient VHS video with Danny THiompson but its low on technique advice

[Cat Burrito]

I don't know about the best but

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Introduction-Upright-Double-Bass-Beginners-DVD-/330477033403?pt=UK_Music_SheetMusic_RL&hash=item4cf1f757bb"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Introduction-Upright...=item4cf1f757bb[/url]

seemed to work for me starting out

[Clarky]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='968384' date='Sep 26 2010, 02:24 PM']I don't know about the best but

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Introduction-Upright-Double-Bass-Beginners-DVD-/330477033403?pt=UK_Music_SheetMusic_RL&hash=item4cf1f757bb"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Introduction-Upright...=item4cf1f757bb[/url]

seemed to work for me starting out[/quote]
thanks mate, nice and cheap too! Just ordered a copy

[BassBus]

I've used Todd Phillips' DVDs [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Todd-Phillips-Essential-Techniques-Acoustic/dp/B00024OR4Y/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1285510048&sr=1-2"]here[/url]

On Jenefer's reference to side on plucking, definitely. I find it gives a much richer tone to the sound.

It occured to me that the position of your plucking fingers will also depend on the height you have your bass on the end pin and the length of your arms...

So many things to consider.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Clarky' post='968361' date='Sep 26 2010, 01:55 PM']Oops, just re-read my OP. I used the word above rather than below when referring to where the neck meets the body. For the avoidance of doubt I am playing just below where the neck meets the body, some six inches nearer to the headstock than where I see most jazz players plucking. The replies above are really helpful, many thanks to all.[/quote]

Ah. Sorry I misunderstood you I was having my wakey-up coffee when I replied. Yes I pick around that point quite often too, especially when doing rocksteady covers with just our guitarist. If the drummer is with us then I pick nearer the bridge because I will need to put a lot more force into the string, but I prefer the sound further up the board for that sort of thing.

[Clarky]

Thanks thisnameistaken. I got the DB gig with Rattlin Bone today and the constructive criticism I got when auditioning was that I was playing a bit quietly. So its something I definitely need to work on. Appreciate your answers.

[thisnameistaken]

Yeah getting more of your finger tugging the string as opposed to your finger tip will get you a lot more volume and attack. Congrats on getting that gig too man, they have an awesome sound.

[PaulKing]

[quote name='Clarky' post='968904' date='Sep 26 2010, 10:01 PM']Thanks thisnameistaken. I got the DB gig with Rattlin Bone today and the constructive criticism I got when auditioning was that I was playing a bit quietly. So its something I definitely need to work on. Appreciate your answers.[/quote]

Yep, the sideways finger thing is all about getting good purchase and giving that string some real welly. Your thumb against the edge of the board gives extra leverage too, until you start playing with your whole arm which really gets the strings moving!
DB is MUCH more physical than electric bass. You want to dig in and get those strings moving.
You'll get much more volume and pronounced attack from your strings this way, without having to rely on over-amplifying ... which just exacerbates the feedback problem.

Make sure you post first gigs with Rattlin Bone ...
PS where in London are you? I'm always up for sharing tips and ideas with like-minded bassists. I been doing this for a long time now! Strings, pick-ups, amplifiers, technique ... it's a mine field.

Edited September 28, 2010 by PaulKing

[Bilbo]

I am finding, as I get better, that the side of the finger and the use of the second finger are becoming more and more natural and that, as they become more engaged with the process, the tone and technique are advancing. ANother interesting point for me, and this is an aside, comes from watching the strings vibrate when you bow. If you catch the low E right, the thing vibrates like a mother.... It really evidences the relationship between string movement and volume.

I agree its warmer the further away from the bridge you get but you sometimes need a sharper attack. Its a judgement call based on the pieces being performed.

[Clarky]

[quote name='PaulKing' post='970507' date='Sep 28 2010, 11:39 AM']Yep, the sideways finger thing is all about getting good purchase and giving that string some real welly. Your thumb against the edge of the board gives extra leverage too, until you start playing with your whole arm which really gets the strings moving!
DB is MUCH more physical than electric bass. You want to dig in and get those strings moving.
You'll get much more volume and pronounced attack from your strings this way, without having to rely on over-amplifying ... which just exacerbates the feedback problem.

Make sure you post first gigs with Rattlin Bone ...
PS where in London are you? I'm always up for sharing tips and ideas with like-minded bassists. I been doing this for a long time now! Strings, pick-ups, amplifiers, technique ... it's a mine field.[/quote]
Thanks Paul. First gig is on Halloween (of course!) with further gigs likely in Soho and Camden on 23 Nov and 1 Dec.

I am nr Hammersmith and would welcome advice. FYI, I have a c.15 year old Andreas Zeller 3/4 bass (carved front, rest is laminate) with Thomastick Spirocore strings and a Shadow 950 pickup and am currently playing through my TC 450 head and TC 1x12 cab - have feedback/volume problems with this so am after a Fishman Platinum preamp.

[fatback]

[quote name='Clarky' post='968904' date='Sep 26 2010, 10:01 PM']Thanks thisnameistaken. I got the DB gig with Rattlin Bone today and the constructive criticism I got when auditioning was that I was playing a bit quietly. So its something I definitely need to work on. Appreciate your answers.[/quote]


Hey, congrats on getting that gig. I'm jealous. Great band

[Clarky]

[quote name='fatback' post='970702' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:20 PM']Hey, congrats on getting that gig. I'm jealous. Great band [/quote]
Thanks! Just got to learn 12 songs in 3 weeks