Do you film your own band - Live?

[mike f]

Hello there,

I should imagine that a good few of you film your own band when ever you gig - perhaps more as a record of events than a rockumenatary, if you will.

I need a camera for this very thing.

Must be reliable, good value, handy-sized/good portability, have relatively good sound reproduction (or an attachable mic) and work well in the low levels of light we have become accustomed to working/stumbling around stage in.

Second hand is not a problem.

So, can you recommend a camera?

Thanks,

Mike

[brick]

[quote name='mike f' post='970615' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:14 PM']Hello there,

I should imagine that a good few of you film your own band when ever you gig - perhaps more as a record of events than a rockumenatary, if you will.

I need a camera for this very thing.

Must be reliable, good value, handy-sized/good portability, have relatively good sound reproduction (or an attachable mic) and work well in the low levels of light we have become accustomed to working/stumbling around stage in.

Second hand is not a problem.

So, can you recommend a camera?

Thanks,

Mike[/quote]

i cant help u out, is it for a originals or function band

[xilddx]

[quote name='brick' post='970620' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:18 PM']i cant help u out, is it for a originals or function band[/quote]
[color="#FF0000"][size=7][b]?[/b][/size][/color]

[Delberthot]

I'm also interested in this but thinking that it may be better to record the sound separately and mix the audio and visual together

[cheddatom]

All the [url="http://www.youtube.com/user/creepj0int"]videos for creepjoint[/url] were done on a standard little £100ish compact digital camera with a video feature. I've not messed with the sound on them at all. I reckon it's pretty impressive! I'll find out what model it is if you're after something like that.

We've used proper DV cameras on tripods before but never seemed to get very good sound quality.

[mike f]

Thanks cheddatom, that would be great!

Or should I say, grate! Cheddar - cheese - grate..., ahem, sorry.

How is S-O-T? Does Route 66 still exist up 'anley?



Any more suggestions would be appreciated.

Edited September 28, 2010 by mike f

[DanOwens]

My experience is that you will not in any way, shape or form get audio that is any good from an in-built microphone. Especially on a budget camera. Instead you're going to want to take a desk feed and join the two in mixdown. This, of course, has problems (since your audio and picture won't be sync'd and will need to be) but will provide you with a more realistic sound than a stereo mic where the balance changes depending on where the camera is.

My girlfriend is a documentary film maker and uses a Sony A1 for most of her own stuff. Cost about £1000. Otherwise she rents a Sony Z1. Before that she used a Sony Handycam HDR-XR550VE which was also good, but had no audio-in to plug in external mics. Instead I rigged up a mic and minidisc recorder to sync in the edit. This would be what I would recommend.

The sad reality is that low-light is a real killer. Very expensive cameras struggle in low-light situations. Get familiar with editing software and as long as you have decent audio it won't matter too much about the picture quality or lighting, plus you can do weird effects that cover up some of the more obvious problems.

In short, budget matters but the Sony HDR range are pretty good.

Dan

[Cat Burrito]

I've been filming my bands since 2006 on my Dad's Sony camcorder. I'm no expert but I would imagine technology has moved on since Dad bought the camera in 2004(ish). I find the sound quality is really good and the picture is as you'd expect with modern digital technology. I've seen footage shot on other cameras of friends who play in heavy bands and sometimes the sound suffers if the volume is too loud. We play with a mix of acoustic and electric instruments which always fairs well with the sound from the camera. So assuming you are not in a loud & heavy band I would have thought any camera would serve you well. I'd be guided by what others who play heavier stuff say if that is more your thing.

These were the results from my friends heavy band which I think do them few favours



and it may be unfair to compare as this is a better venue but my band sound much more listenable with my camera results



In terms of lighting, you are often up against it in the pub venues. You can flip it to night vision for some interesting results but it's best just to position the camera out the way from backs of audience members heads and hope for the best. We have mixed results and I tend to use the outdoor footage / decent venue stuff for YouTube and the rest is just circulated within the band. It's always useful though as you can rip the audio track off poor quality footage and still use that for practicing or just listening.

[Low End Bee]

The Zoom Q3 is good if you want excellent sound and aren't too bothered about video quality. Easily good enough for youtubing.

[Colledge]

from my experience the only compact camera that has a good enough mic for live music is a sony. i've had 3 and they all did pretty well.


that was recorded (by my Dave Grohl obsessed mam) on a little 5 year old sony t10. aswell as the other vids on my channel. i've had more expensive samsung and other cameras but none have had half as good sound quality for videos.

[brick]

[quote name='silddx' post='970629' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:24 PM'][color="#FF0000"][size=7][b]?[/b][/size][/color][/quote]
Yep that post didn’t make much sense

meant to say that couldn’t help the poster with a camera but was wondering what kind of band he played in as depending on which could suggest a couple of alternatives to get vids done without forking out dosh

[tayste_2000]

Oddly the best sound we've got from a video camera live is a Flip Camcorder, they are quite cheap, use a solid state memory, pretty much bullet proof and the sound is great and we play loooooooud.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='mike f' post='970642' date='Sep 28 2010, 01:35 PM']Thanks cheddatom, that would be great!

Or should I say, grate! Cheddar - cheese - grate..., ahem, sorry.

How is S-O-T? Does Route 66 still exist up 'anley?[/quote]

Ay up duck, he swapped premesis with the sex shop I think. I'm not sure if he's still open to be honest. A bit of a weirdo! (although a nice weirdo)

what do you guys reckon to the quality of my videos? There's obviously a lot of compression going on in the camera, but at least it's not horrible distortion! Some are better than others.

[Mr. Foxen]

Firely sure you should give up on a camera's own mic and merely use it to align sound recorded elsewhere. Our own JoeGarcia has a live recording rig he can be paid to record you with anywhere he is doing sound. Or take him on tour with you, so I can use his room to dry basses I'm finishing.

[spinynorman]

We've been filmed twice with a domestic camcorder, don't know which make or model, but nothing that special. The first time was in a pub in a fairly small enclosed space, where the camera had to be close up, and the sound was terrible. The second was a much larger space where the camera was back with the soundman, and higher up than us. That worked pretty well, though the treble was quite harsh. So I put the video in an editor and saved the audio to a wave file, took that into Audacity, or similar, cut the treble, boosted the bass (of course) and added some compression, then imported the wave file back into the video, and muted the original track. The results of that are pretty good for sound, though I haven't attempted to correct for the stage lighting that left me in shadow for most of the set.

[flyfisher]

I've used a miniDV digital camcorder with a Rode VideoMic and, providing you stay back from the PA then the results are not too bad - certainly good enough to review the performance and probably OK for YouTube, but not really for a quality promo.

If you're handy with video editing packages then a fixed (tripod) position longshot together with a roving camcorder for closeups etc can be effective. Use the audio from the longshot cam and insert closeups as appropriate. Tell the roving camera to record continuously, even when moving position and setting up shots, so that it will also record a complete soundtrack, which will be invaluable for syncing the insert shots. Then just cut back to the longshot during the times the roving camera is moving about for the next shot.

Be careful about the tripod for the longshot cam though - it's best to have someone 'guarding' it to ensure it isn't knocked over or hurts someone. The sound desk can be a good place for the longshot cam, depending on the venue layout.

It's best if you can have someone to be fully in charge of videoing. The band will be busy setting up their own gear and worrying about video cameras is probably a distraction they could do without.

[JTUK]

If you use the cheaper cam options, then the sound is a lottery, IMV.

I have Sony and the condenser type mic isn't really good enough for decent music recordings....but that may depend on the model.

We have decent sound on Zoom devs so maybe if you could sync the two.
On the basis of the good results we have had with the Zoom sound, I would think the video option would make sense.

[mike f]

Thank you all for your contributions - some great advice; all noted!

I should say that I play in a 4 piece pop/rock/swing band, with lots of vocals i.e harmonies, plenty of guitars and, of course, a thundering rhythm section! So, we're not too loud.

The two cameras idea seems like a good one, and then going on to sync the sound afterwards.

There are venues in London which will film a gig for you, and I guess that option is to be used when appropriate.

The camera my band, The Hops, needs is more to document each gig and if anything is of good enough quality, to put on show at myspace, youtube etc.

Thanks again for the advice, I'm quite chuffed.


Regarding Route 66. In the late 80s it was THE place in Hanley, Stoke on Trent to drool over guitars. This is the place I bought a Capri Orange 77 P-bass for £270, and 78 Stingray for £695. It was run by Don and Karen. Don ALWAYS wore those big glasses with the bottom half shaded bit, and Karen was a bit of a rock chick..., or was. Lovely people who must've seen me at least monthly as I could not go to Hanley (from Congleton) without walking up the hill to, well, just go and look. Oh, they had a sale every year and I swear once they had a Dan Armstrong(?) plexiglass bass for "£85 or make us an offer"!!

[tbkicks]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='970724' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:40 PM']The Zoom Q3 is good if you want excellent sound and aren't too bothered about video quality. Easily good enough for youtubing.[/quote]

I wouldn't recommend a Q3 for recording bands. The video in low light is truly awful (flashing lights bu*ger it up all together!) and it wont give you anything worthwhile to edit. The audio is a disappointment as well in a gig situation as it seems to have been designed to stand close (a couple of feet) to one instrument rather than to record several disparate sounds. Stand it on a piano during recital and it will record pristine audio, but as a band tool I found it about half as good as my old mobile phone!

[Dood]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='970724' date='Sep 28 2010, 02:40 PM']The Zoom Q3 is good if you want excellent sound and aren't too bothered about video quality. Easily good enough for youtubing.[/quote]


Yes! There's some good videos on youtube of a guy recording a drum kit close up and there is NO distortion as the dual mics (and electronics) are designed to take the high sound pressures and still sound great. WAY better than 99.9% of normal 'vid' cameras - but I agree, the video quality, especially in low light is weaker than a quality vid-cam.

There's a few videos by artist showing off the Q3 on YouTube too - such as Jordan Rudess and Mike Portnoy.

[Dood]

[quote name='tbkicks' post='971282' date='Sep 29 2010, 12:01 AM']I wouldn't recommend a Q3 for recording bands. The video in low light is truly awful (flashing lights bu*ger it up all together!) and it wont give you anything worthwhile to edit. The audio is a disappointment as well in a gig situation as it seems to have been designed to stand close (a couple of feet) to one instrument rather than to record several disparate sounds. Stand it on a piano during recital and it will record pristine audio, but as a band tool I found it about half as good as my old mobile phone![/quote]

Interesting! I actually hadn't seen any 'distance recording' examples and hadn't given that aspect any thought until you mentioned it. I'll go check it out! (Not that I don't believe you, I do! Just like to hear examples)

[Dood]

I just read there's a firmware patch for the poor lighting on the Q3. I've no idea if it's a help!

[JTUK]

We use the zoom2 for live recording. we set it up in a general central position and leave it to it.
After reviewing the playing, we have dumped it straight down on our website as a live example of tracks.
It worked really well in that context IMV. All the core sounds made it onto the recording, we had the live mix for the gig and no more thought goes into the recording.

All the live tracks on there were done this way over 2 or 3 gigs as I recall.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='mike f' post='971015' date='Sep 28 2010, 06:57 PM']Regarding Route 66. In the late 80s it was THE place in Hanley, Stoke on Trent to drool over guitars. This is the place I bought a Capri Orange 77 P-bass for £270, and 78 Stingray for £695. It was run by Don and Karen. Don ALWAYS wore those big glasses with the bottom half shaded bit, and Karen was a bit of a rock chick..., or was. Lovely people who must've seen me at least monthly as I could not go to Hanley (from Congleton) without walking up the hill to, well, just go and look. Oh, they had a sale every year and I swear once they had a Dan Armstrong(?) plexiglass bass for "£85 or make us an offer"!![/quote]

Yeh I got my first guitars from route 66 in the early 90s. I don't know the dudes name, but i'm pretty sure it's the same guy who's been there for 20 odd years. I think maybe the downturn depressed him somewhat.

[dave_bass5]

Best video device ive used was my Panasonic Lumix TZ7. For a P&S camera its HD recordings are very good. And the audio has always been clear.
Its quite a popular camera amongst concert goers. I think the price is down to about £160.

Sometimes the audience are worth recording though. This was taken with the camera sitting on my bass amp. Yeah, it was a pretty poor gig although the dance floor was packed by the end of the night. I think she scared a lot of people off.


You can also see my Roland R-09HR audio recorder strapped to our singers mic stand. This gives great audio recordings and is placed just right to get a good stereo mix.

Edited October 1, 2010 by dave_bass5