What makes a bad bass player?

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='TimR' post='972500' date='Sep 30 2010, 11:18 AM']You ACTUALLY did that in an audition?[/quote]

I know - and I wasnt playing a Fender either . I have no shame

[thunderbird13]

Actually more seriously not knowing every note on the fretboard - there's really no excuse for it and it limits your note choice or forces you to overstretch

[Doddy]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='972524' date='Sep 30 2010, 11:45 AM']Actually more seriously not knowing every note on the fretboard - there's really no excuse for it and it limits your note choice or forces you to overstretch[/quote]

Which is one of the big reasons why you see poorer players only playing root notes in the exact same position as the guitarists barre chords.

[Musicman20]

All of these reasons on positions is what made me want to go for a 5 string.

I think being able to swap comofortably between 4 and 5 strings is perfect. Its finding the 5 that works for you thats the hard part.

I try to give equal attention to both at the moment, and practice more at home with the 5 as I now want more 5 string basses.

[SteveK]

[quote name='benh' post='972452' date='Sep 30 2010, 10:36 AM']PS about the "[b]in the real world of gigs tablature doesn't exist[/b]" - totally true. I got the biggest kick up the rear end to learn how to read notation when I tried to do a gig reading from TAB for a stage production of "Little Shop of Horrors" a few years ago, mistake![/quote]
And for a lot of gigging musicians notation doesn't exist.

Edited September 30, 2010 by SteveK

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='SteveK' post='972549' date='Sep 30 2010, 12:09 PM']And for a lot of gigging musicians notation doesn't exist.
[/quote]

Every so often I make an effort to learn dots and I like reading them and I find it an interesting challenge, but I never ever gig with anyone who can read/write so the only way to keep those skills sharp would be to practice them all the time at home, and I just don't have the time to dedicate to a skill I'll never use.

[51m0n]

[quote name='TimR' post='972472' date='Sep 30 2010, 10:54 AM']Correct, but I will clarify exactly what I mean by muting.

All musicians must be aware of note lengths. It's not just related to bass players. It's something I've noticed amongst bass players AND rhythm guitarists. Often they will leave the notes ringing until they play the next note. Often this is not a problem but will destroy the feel of a song and make the song sound cluttered if notes are not kept to their proper length.

This may be a self taught thing. My son (6) is learning trumpet. The first thing he is doing is practicing playing quarter notes. With a trumpet you have to keep blowing right to the end of the note or the sound stops and you must stop blowing or the sound continues. With a bass or any plucked instrument you have to mute or you end up playing a dotted quarter note or worse...[/quote]

I was replying to blackmn90, talking about whether you can tell a bassline is improving a song, he stated you would have to mute the bass (ie mute the track).

Nothing to do with muting ringing strings here (which falls under my technically capable of playing umbrella IMO!)

[lowdown]

For me a bad Bass player is an equal in a bad band.
So i dont listen to what i consider a bad band.Just turn the CD/MP3/RADIO etc off. or run out the pub, theatre, screaming with my ears in tatters.
Plenty of good Muso's about to listen to, why analyze and waste time and good earage on bad Musicians.




Garry

[maxrossell]

Actually, here's another of my screwy arbitrary principles which somehow work. It applies to all musicians, but let's assume I've just come across a really technically competent bass player, and I'm debating whether or not to hire him. The question is:

"Let's imagine a song with a tempo around 90bpm. It's in 4/4, and the bassline is an open E on the first beat of every bar, and let it ring out until the first beat of the next bar. Let's go crazy and pretend that it's a really great song, a generation-defining classic, but it only works if you play it like that, with nothing else. Would you be happy to play it?"

If the answer is "no", they don't get the gig.

You wouldn't believe how many people I've encountered who have said "no".

[Gareth Hughes]

Same as what makes any bad musician in my book - not listening. From not listening stems a multitude of sins - bad timing, poor note choice, inappropriate playing, rampant egos, poor intonation, missed cues, etc, etc.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Conan' post='971858' date='Sep 29 2010, 04:57 PM']Someone who is a "bad" bass player in one band might actually be "good" in another band! Assuming they can actually play the instrument, the rest is all about context I would say.

A bad bass player does not listen to the drummer (and may not listen to anyone else!) - that's a no brainer![/quote]

That pretty much sums me up.

Im only average at the best of times alothugh i get the job done.
With my main band (both bands playing covers) my drummer is so slack (well, the whorl band is really) and in a world of his own i got so bad recently i almost gave up playing. He doesn't really get the lock in together bit, has no stamina so tempos are all over the place and while i try and lock in with his bass drum the rhythm can change mid verse so i dont really stand a chance.

The other band i play in are very together and the drummer is so tight not only is it a pleasure to play with them but i always come away having learnt something.

[Conan]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='972637' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:20 PM']With my main band (both bands playing covers) my drummer is so slack (well, the whorl band is really) and in a world of his own i got so bad recently i almost gave up playing. He doesn't really get the lock in together bit, has no stamina so tempos are all over the place and while i try and lock in with his bass drum the rhythm can change mid verse so i dont really stand a chance.

The other band i play in are very together and the drummer is so tight not only is it a pleasure to play with them but i always come away having learnt something.[/quote]

So why do you play with the "main" band?!

[zero9]

Someone who can't play bass makes a bad bass player.

Simple!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Conan' post='972647' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:28 PM']So why do you play with the "main" band?! [/quote]

For the money ;-)

One band offsets the other. We do have good gigs, but when its a crap gig, he is in a cant be bothered mood (or in fact very good mood) it makes it hard for me to enjoy it and get in to it. We do always go down well though so sometimes i think its just me being picky, but it certainly can affect my playing quite a bit.

Im not going to discuss why i haven't left though, but i will say the main reason it hasn't happened yet is circumstances.

[Conan]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='972659' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:38 PM']Im not going to discuss why i haven't left though, but i will say the main reason it hasn't happened yet is circumstances.[/quote]

Oooh! You tease!

[TimR]

[quote name='51m0n' post='972572' date='Sep 30 2010, 12:24 PM']I was replying to blackmn90, talking about whether you can tell a bassline is improving a song, he stated you would have to mute the bass (ie mute the track).

Nothing to do with muting ringing strings here (which falls under my technically capable of playing umbrella IMO!)[/quote]

OK, I misunderstood.

"technically capable of playing" is a pretty big umbrella.

Similar to "What makes a bad driver?" "Someone who can't mechanically operate their car." as opposed to someone who doesn't look at signs, hasn't read the highway code and takes no notice of other road users.

A bit of a general answer.

[algmusic]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='972532' date='Sep 30 2010, 11:54 AM']All of these reasons on positions is what made me want to go for a 5 string.

I think being able to swap comofortably between 4 and 5 strings is perfect. Its finding the 5 that works for you thats the hard part.

I try to give equal attention to both at the moment, and practice more at home with the 5 as I now want more 5 string basses.[/quote]

5 strings are a funny one for me.. I started on four then moved a 5 quickly, then I matured as a player and moved back to the 4. I'd only use/borrow a 5 if I REALLY needed that low B, as the tones on the 4 strings just feel better. I'm a passive fan and the 5's need an active circuit IMHO.

I have 2 4string jazzes at the mo and I hate the 5 string jazzes. They lack the one of the 4's.. When I buy a 5 I think I need to look for different sound like the Sei bass. Those are louuuuvley :-)

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Conan' post='972672' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:48 PM']Oooh! You tease! [/quote]

It just makes for an easy life and its very convenient being in this band. Nothing else really.
Having the other band keeps me sane.

[51m0n]

[quote name='TimR' post='972682' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:54 PM']OK, I misunderstood.

"technically capable of playing" is a pretty big umbrella.

Similar to "What makes a bad driver?" "Someone who can't mechanically operate their car." as opposed to someone who doesn't look at signs, hasn't read the highway code and takes no notice of other road users.

A bit of a general answer.[/quote]

"Technically capable of playing" is IMO as I stated before someone able to play the bassline they need to in time enough and clean enough for the genre in hand

[bassface2k10]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='971881' date='Sep 29 2010, 05:10 PM']There are two types of bad bass players:

1) Bass players who you notice. If you notice the bass player he's doing it wrong.

2) Adam Clayton.[/quote]

Is it me or is this comment really stupid? or am i missing something.

i notice bass players for lots of reasons, more good reasons than bad.
And why is Adam Clayton a bad player? a band wouldn't go to wrong with a solid player like him, isn't Adam the one that kept the band together in the early days? if he's a bad player I'm a crap player and i consider myself being at a pretty fair level.

[Doddy]

Adam Clayton is the best bass player in U2.
I'm not a fan of his or the band,but they do what they do well,within their own niche. Whether you think he's a good player or not depends on your own definition of who is good and bad.

[bassface2k10]

[quote name='Doddy' post='972913' date='Sep 30 2010, 04:51 PM']Adam Clayton is the best bass player in U2.
I'm not a fan of his or the band,but they do what they do well,within their own niche. Whether you think he's a good player or not depends on your own definition of who is good and bad.[/quote]
Agreed with the do what they do bit, but that goes for every player that plays within their niche, I think a lot of peoples opinions on who’s a bad player are generally biased if they dislike a certain band or genre of music or even the guys personality, however it still doesn’t make that bass player a bad one, that’s why I thought the comment was stupid, and I’m not a great lover of U2

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='972637' date='Sep 30 2010, 01:20 PM']Im only average at the best of times alothugh i get the job done.
With my main band (both bands playing covers) my drummer is so slack (well, the whorl band is really) and in a world of his own i got so bad recently i almost gave up playing. He doesn't really get the lock in together bit, has no stamina so tempos are all over the place and while i try and lock in with his bass drum the rhythm can change mid verse so i dont really stand a chance.[/quote]
you're not by any chance the bass player for the libertines are you ?

[Circle_of_Fifths]

A 'bad bassist' will not be working much and therefor one won't hear them unless one goes to garage band open mic nights.

C'mon - how many times do the cameras actually hold a shot of the bassist anyway? You could show up naked and not too many people would even notice, let alone in a wizard's outfit. Many times you can send in an MP3 of you playing and then you can get a beer and watch the crowd FROM the crowd on the floor in front of the band.

All the audience cares about is that there's some low notes and they keep on happening for the dancers to find the groove - but bass-groupies don't exist in great numbers, so the audience has no idea from where the low notes are coming anyway.

Another trait for a bad bassist is one who cannot hear the song in his head - can't hear the rest of the group - has little appreciation of the homogenized sound of a group that is tight and can play without a practice session and still sound good.

Maybe the biggest sign of a bad bassist is one who doesn't increase his musical repertoire.

Just build a song book and keep adding pages to it all the rest of your career: You can't help [i]BUT[/i] get better.

I gigged a BBQ this last Saturday and a few 'talented people' wanted to try their hand at playing - OK, that's fair as it was a no-pay gig anyway.

One guy came up with a Lakland or Lake-something bass and was fingering the lines he was gonna play for a song he knew - HIS ONE SONG! Really!

I plugged him into my amp and although he was nervous - his real problem was that he had learned how to move his fingers for that one song with no spatial relationships to the music - nor did he actually hear the rest of the band. That was sad.

He could finger the notes, hit the right strings and even held the bass pretty well - but he had no musical soul.

Really sad.

[Musky]

[quote name='maxrossell' post='972612' date='Sep 30 2010, 12:55 PM']Actually, here's another of my screwy arbitrary principles which somehow work. It applies to all musicians, but let's assume I've just come across a really technically competent bass player, and I'm debating whether or not to hire him. The question is:

"Let's imagine a song with a tempo around 90bpm. It's in 4/4, and the bassline is an open E on the first beat of every bar, and let it ring out until the first beat of the next bar. Let's go crazy and pretend that it's a really great song, a generation-defining classic, but it only works if you play it like that, with nothing else. Would you be happy to play it?"

If the answer is "no", they don't get the gig.

You wouldn't believe how many people I've encountered who have said "no".[/quote]

So how much does this gig pay?