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What makes a bad bass player?

benh

By benh,
in General Discussion

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Doddy Mentor

Doddy

Posted
Posted
On 05/07/2021 at 22:24, Dad3353 said:

Hmm...

h5wgshk.png

 

That's pretty badly written. I don't hear any 64th notes in Black Dog.

I'll be honest, I've never heard that song as having bars of 2 and 5. I hear and count it as being in 4 with the vocal breaks being more rubato.

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Stub Mandrel Grand Master

Stub Mandrel

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, neilp said:

No, the pink sections are parts of a longer, 4/4 phrase that have accents shifted from where the typical back beat would put them. Count it in 4, listen to the drums and it will become clear

No you're all wrong.

The drums play 4:4 but the guitar/bass don't.

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Doddy Mentor

Doddy

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

No you're all wrong.

The drums play 4:4 but the guitar/bass don't.

It only took a quick Google to find this quote by John Paul Jones in an old issue of Guitar World

"This riff is rather tricky-sounding, as it's built from a repeated phrase that is four-and-a-half beats long. Each time the phrase is repeated it's displaced by half a beat. Notice how the E note, which falls neatly on beat one the first time the phrase is played, falls on the second eighth-note of beat one the second time around, on beat two the third time, and on the second eighth-note of beat two the fourth time. This technique of repeating an odd-length phrase in an even time signature such as 4/4 is known as hemiola and is a very effective compositional tool."

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Waddo Soqable Grand Master

Waddo Soqable

Posted
Posted
On 07/07/2021 at 23:54, Doddy said:

It only took a quick Google to find this quote by John Paul Jones in an old issue of Guitar World

"This riff is rather tricky-sounding, as it's built from a repeated phrase that is four-and-a-half beats long. Each time the phrase is repeated it's displaced by half a beat. Notice how the E note, which falls neatly on beat one the first time the phrase is played, falls on the second eighth-note of beat one the second time around, on beat two the third time, and on the second eighth-note of beat two the fourth time. This technique of repeating an odd-length phrase in an even time signature such as 4/4 is known as hemiola and is a very effective compositional tool."

Sounds like he's overthinking things a bit....

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lowdown Grand Master

lowdown

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 05/07/2021 at 22:24, Dad3353 said:

Hmm...

 

If you try to count 1.2.3.4. all the way through, there'll be moments when the '1' is no longer the '1'. :friends:

 

 I'm with you, Dad. Although, the chart in your original post is not a good example.

This Bassist below, nails how easy it actually is and that it has probably been overcomplicated over the years (just my opinion of course).

Although, I appreciate the view of the shifted or, displaced 8th note and accent examples, that just doesn't feel natural for me and, a bit too much hard work...:D

 

I'm not saying this example is right, it's just the way I have learned and played it in the past... with the first three notes of the phrase as a pick up bar of 2/4 (or pick up phrase).

 View in full screen (if you are remotely interested...:D)

 

 

Edited by lowdown
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Soledad Proficient

Soledad

Posted
Posted

Just heard (accidentally, in car) Bowie Space Oddity - and I need to offload this. Had to check for a bass credit - Herbie Flowers indeed. Talk about over-playing. What a complete effin' mess of pointless notes. Utterly horrific, a thick lumpy soup of sound. Personally, I'd be really embarrassed about that. 

So my point would be, knowing when NOT to play a note. Space, dynamics and all that, the art of silence.
I mean, Jamerson played a lot of notes a lot of the time, but the fit into the track was bloody perfect.

There's saints, and there's sinners. 

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neilp Community Regular

neilp

Posted
Posted
On 07/07/2021 at 19:39, Dad3353 said:

OK, I'm out. I'm quite used to 'accents' and such, and I also know how to count bars in pieces with multiple time signatures. :friends:

That's the point. So am I, but this piece is neither polyrhythmic nor in multiple time signatures. Straightforward 4/4, and that's by far the easiest way to count it

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neilp Community Regular

neilp

Posted
Posted
On 07/07/2021 at 19:27, Dad3353 said:

No, I don't agree. Yes, one may play the drums in 4/4 throughout (I'm a drummer, and that's what I do...), but the bass staff has 2/4 and 5/4 bars in there. You can't count 4/4 all through the bass part and be on the '1' all of the time.
It's possible to play 3/4 throughout on the drums; that doesn't make the bass part 3/4. :friends:

One last comment on this, and then I'll let you all make your lives difficult. Just because a phrase doesn't begin and end at the beginning of a 4/4 bar every time, doesn't mean it's not in 4/4. 

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Lfalex v1.1 Veteran

Lfalex v1.1

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DiMarco said:

Any insecure player makes a bad bassist. Put your gut in it and have no fear. Ever.

 

Good advice. 

Last time I did that, I stood, Atlas-like, supporting the musical endeavours of the rest of the band.

The reaction of the band's followers was positive;

"Your new bass player is cool/epic/awesome."

"He raises the band to a whole new level"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He was also sacked the following day for getting too much attention (even though I'd already gone home) and denting the collective ego of the rest of the band! 🤣

 

Edited by Lfalex v1.1
(This is actually a true story)
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Lozz196 Grand Master

Lozz196

Posted
Posted
On 25/06/2021 at 10:01, 4000 said:

Disagree on both counts. You notice people like Squire, Entwistle, JJB, Jaco, Norman W-R, Jamerson, and they’re all doing it very right, IMO. 

Whilst there may be an element of humour in your statement, Adam Clayton is a perfectly good bass player so far as I’m concerned. He plays parts that work in the context of the music (whether or not you like that music is not relevant). Whenever I hear people slag him off I always wonder what they think he should be playing. Funky 16th note groove in With Or Without You? That would be bad bass playing. 

 

On 01/07/2021 at 19:09, AndyTravis said:

Yeah, I often think of AC coming home after a gig…

”Hard day at the office dear?”

’not in the least bit taxing love - really chilled, nice and easy’

”Are we still filthy rich?”

’oh aye, increasingly so my little petal - INCREASINGLY…yurs.’

”Brandy?”

’Why not…hehehehe’.

Just watched a very interesting clip from The Tube in 1883 where AC is playing guitar on a song called 40, as well as playing chords he was doing harmonics etc.

Im sure that the haters will say it’s cos the bass line in that song was too difficult….

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