Covers bands - what's the appeal?

[HMX]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='976281' date='Oct 3 2010, 06:52 PM']I was in my teens. Formed an original band. Didn't make it big. Decided that playing covers to people was better than sitting in my bedroom whiddling away. And actually earned money.[/quote]
Seems like the path I'm going to follow.

I know what music I want to write - I just can't. And I can't sing either. However, I learn covers quickly and thoroughly and love playing them.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Stan_da_man' post='977172' date='Oct 4 2010, 02:52 PM']The band I'm in now I write and compose all the music.[/quote]
I did say "most" bassists - and so far you're the second person in a 12-page thread who's responded to my observation. Which might well speak for itself.

So anyway - you'd walk away from your songs & present band & never look back, for more regular gigs & a bit of cash playing covers? Me neither.

J.

[TimR]

It's is not essential to be able to compose good music to be a musician.

Does a carpenter have to be able to design furinture? Is he still a carpenter if he follows plans.

I know plenty of musicians who play in west end shows every night , or orchestras around the world. They follow the dots. They teach by day. They are professional musicians making a living from playing music.

When Mozart et al wrote music, did they require the orchestra to come up with their own versions of the parts they had written?

Isn't The London Symphony Orchestra just another covers band?

It is my understanding that you can only copyright lyrics and melody. All us bass players who believe that we are part of the writing or composing process just because we come up with our own lines are simply deluding ourselves.

Edited October 4, 2010 by TimR

[Bassassin]

[quote name='TimR' post='977682' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:22 PM']It's is not essential to be able to compose good music to be a musician.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone's even implied that it is, have they?

J.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='TimR' post='977682' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:22 PM']Does a carpenter have to be able to design furinture? Is he still a carpenter if he follows plans.[/quote]

Is the dude in a Korean factory making Fender clones a luthier though?

[TimR]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='977705' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:35 PM']Is the dude in a Korean factory making Fender clones a luthier though?[/quote]

Depends on how much of the clone he has made. If he has just assembled parts from a machine, no.

Am I a carpenter if I can assemble an Ikea chair?

[TimR]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='977695' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:27 PM']I'm not sure anyone's even implied that it is, have they?

J.[/quote]

Maybe not on this thread.

I take the original question as what is the appeal of playing other people's music?

What is the alternative if you don't write your own? It doesn't mean you are somehow not a proper musician.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='TimR' post='977710' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:42 PM']Am I a carpenter if I can assemble an Ikea chair?[/quote]

No, a genius.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='TimR' post='977718' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:47 PM']Maybe not on this thread.

I take the original question as what is the appeal of playing other people's music?

What is the alternative if you don't write your own? It doesn't mean you are somehow not a proper musician.[/quote]
I see. I don't know how much of a compositional contribution the OP makes to his successful originals band - if indeed they are still composing and gigging new material. If they're not, I think that puts an interesting perspective on the discussion which hasn't yet been touched upon.

I guess I assumed your comment was aimed at me, since it's been me intermittently banging on about playing covers being unrewarding if you happen to write original material which you consider to be any good.

This is only a personal perspective and I wouldn't for a moment wish to denigrate bassists who don't write. In fact players whose sole focus is their instrument are almost inevitably going to be more versatile and technically adept than some hapless jack-of-all-trades like me.

J.

[Hoppo75]

I have to be honest, all I know about covers vs originals is that.......You can't beat an all valve head... ideally Ampeg!!!

[Bilbo]

I just believe that there is a lot to be said for the aspiration of creating something fresh and orignal and not just regurgitating the same old same old - this applies to all genres including jazz, which is as guilty as anyone of taking the path of least resistance. Music as mostalgia is what gives us the predictability of X Factor etc. Like food, its better and more nourishing when its fresh, be that KT Tunstall, Trivium, John Taverener or Phronesis.

You can, of course, do both, as many here do. I guess thats the most realistic compromise.

[farmer61]

[quote name='Nostromo' post='977552' date='Oct 4 2010, 07:52 PM']Well . . . . I'd like to think I'm quite a reasonably good musician . . so far as playing guitar and Bass is concerned that is ! . . . . but I'm equally certain I'm absolutely no good at all at writing new material and nor are any of the other members / performers of the covers band I play in ! . . . .

[i].............................removed to save space..............................[/i]

Just some thoughts to stimulate the debate ? . . . . .

[/quote]

Very good post imo

[markstuk]

It's getting it to stay assembled that requires genius surely? :-)

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='977728' date='Oct 4 2010, 09:54 PM']No, a genius.[/quote]

[cd_david]

Im a musician, thats my job, I would rather play MUSIC and get paid for it than sit on my misguided principles any night of the week.

Edited October 5, 2010 by cd_david

[TimR]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='978014' date='Oct 5 2010, 09:42 AM']....
Like food, its better and more nourishing when its fresh, be that KT Tunstall, Trivium, John Taverener or Phronesis.
...[/quote]

Very good point. At which point does it mature and at which point does it go off?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='TimR' post='978034' date='Oct 5 2010, 10:03 AM']Very good point. At which point does it mature and at which point does it go off?[/quote]

To extend the metaphor, its not that its inedible when it is past its sell buy date but its just better when it is fresh.

The problem (its not really) with music is that, for many people, hearing something very old but for the first time can be just as uplifting as hearing a brand new product. A 17 year old who hears 2112 for the first time today may think Wow!! And that's cool. I have something in my mind about relevance; some things just don't travel well, but hearing a 2, 20 or 200 year old piece for the first time can produce a genuine and legitimate buzz. My problem is at what point does this marginalise/constrict new developments? Its nice to hear a new take on the world instead of the same old stuff.

[TimR]

So the shelf life of music is not dependent on time, but rather on the consumer. Novel.

This means there will always be a market for old and tired music.

If the consumer becomes tired of listening to it then the consumer must search out new fresh music.

So there continues to be markets for both cover bands and originals and they are completely different markets.

There is also another driving force - fashion. Teenagers don't want to be seen to listen to the same unfashionable music their parents listen to. Although plenty will do it happily at home

I'm in my 40s, I lived through the 80s and my personal opinion is that most of it was really poor music. I have a lot of friends in their 30s who feel they missed out on the 80s and they love the tunes. I believe that all the dross has now been weeded out to leave tunes that have matured with time. 80s cover bands do extremely well.

Edited October 5, 2010 by TimR

[xilddx]

[quote name='risingson' post='977542' date='Oct 4 2010, 07:40 PM']I don't think music is dying but I think it's not easy for good music to come to the forefront because the forefront is occupied by label-sponsored acts that are easily moulded and controllable.[/quote]
When was the situation any different?

[xilddx]

[quote name='TimR' post='978093' date='Oct 5 2010, 11:05 AM']So the shelf life of music is not dependent on time, but rather on the consumer. Novel.

This means there will always be a market for old and tired music.

If the consumer becomes tired of listening to it then the consumer must search out new fresh music.

So there continues to be markets for both cover bands and originals and they are completely different markets.

There is also another driving force - fashion. Teenagers don't want to be seen to listen to the same unfashionable music their parents listen to. Although plenty will do it happily at home

I'm in my 40s, I lived through the 80s and my personal opinion is that most of it was really poor music. I have a lot of friends in their 30s who feel they missed out on the 80s and they love the tunes. I believe that all the dross has now been weeded out to leave tunes that have matured with time. 80s cover bands do extremely well.[/quote]
Just because you didn't dig on some of that music does not make it dross. I detest the Pet Shop Boys, but a hell of a lot of people like them. It's just music. You are looking at music from a technical approach. Mantovani is more accessible and listenable than Stravinsky for a lot of people, does that diminish its worth? Or make Mantovani simple sh*te? No. It is just music.

[TimR]

No I'm pretty sure that there was music in the 80s that was manufactured purely for the clubs in Ibiza and to make money from. They'd bring out a tracks every week that were bought by DJs, played in clubs and thrown away. Similar to lift music, no one actually listened to it, it served a purpose and that was all.

Sure it was music but no one really liked it. Cover bands would never be able to reproduce it and if you played it to anyone now they would think you were mad.

I'm not talking about the Pepsi and Shirley type stuff which obviously had a lot of thought and emotion put into it and wasn't just a vehicle to make money out of.

[stingrayfan]

Just a though re: the original question.

As a bass player, I've learned a lot by playing covers. It's taught me little licks, fills, runs - different ways of playing stuff. All by learning the parts of different bass players.

[PapillonIrl]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='973995' date='Oct 1 2010, 01:56 PM']I think it is much more akin to doing the cooking from this point of view, as in, the context of being a musician/bass player. I could be cooking generic burgers in a chain pub from prepacked ingredients, knowing that people all over the country are enjoying very similar burgers, but I'd expect to be paid for that, because otherwise it wouldn't be worth my time. I'd much rather be cooking something for a few friends who I know will really appreciate it, and I won't charge them for it, and even pay for the ingredients from my own pocket. And if I know them well, it is very likely I will challenge them to try things they haven't tried before, because that's what makes life interesting.[/quote]

I like this analogy

[crez5150]

[quote name='' date='Oct 6 2010, 10:04 PM' post='979959']I think it is much more akin to doing the cooking from this point of view, as in, the context of being a musician/bass player. I could be cooking generic burgers in a chain pub from prepacked ingredients, knowing that people all over the country are enjoying very similar burgers, but I'd expect to be paid for that, because otherwise it wouldn't be worth my time. I'd much rather be cooking something for a few friends who I know will really appreciate it, and I won't charge them for it, and even pay for the ingredients from my own pocket. And if I know them well, it is very likely I will challenge them to try things they haven't tried before, because that's what makes life interesting.[/quote]

This is true...... but then you find most of them smother the burger in Ketchup........

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='Hoppo75' post='977919' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:48 AM']I have to be honest, all I know about covers vs originals is that.......You can't beat an all valve head... ideally Ampeg!!!

[/quote]

Yes, you can!

[risingson]

[quote name='silddx' post='978234' date='Oct 5 2010, 12:38 PM']When was the situation any different?[/quote]

Miles Davis, The Beatles, Janis Joplin, The Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Fleetwood Mac, The Byrds, Jimi Hendrix, Genesis, James Brown, Stevie Wonder.

Lady Gaga, The Killers, Tiny Tempah, Pixie Lott, Rihanna, Justin Beiber, Taylor Swift, David Guetta, the cast of Glee.

The consumer has got lazy and considerably more people are willing to put their faith in some television based competition like X-Factor for their musical pleasure as opposed to actively seeking out new music, that's what's changed. Not that they have much choice in the matter anyway.