technical question

[justis]

First things first been a lurker here for about a year and a half and this is my first post so.... hi!

Now on to the nitty gritty, i've just started a new band with a couple of friends after having been in and out of bands for a few years. We're attempting a kinda heavy bluesy rock feel. current members include myself (on bass naturally) a drummer and a keys player (mostly hammond organ kinda stuff)

Basically at the moment we're looking for a guitarist and a vocalist but would prefer to get someone who does both and isnt looking to riff or widdle over the top of everything however theres a little grunt lacking in the rhythm section so my question is this....... can i take a line out from my bass head (a horrible behringer piece of sh*t but it works) or maybe even the effect out and then put it into a guitar combo to give me the ability to have distortion without losing the bass so that it kinda sounds like a rhythm guitarist and bassist playing at same time.

I know theres probably a bazzilion different ways of doing this the right way such as splitting my signal first etc but ive got a baby due to be born literally any day and also setting up a business so buying extra equipment isnt a possibility, just gotta use what i got which is the behringer head and cab, a small sh*tty marshall combo and a zoom b2.1u or whatever its called.

dont wanna just try it incase i blow summin up so any sorta advice on why it will or wont work will be greatly appreciated.

Justin

P.s sorry for the longwindedness of this post.

[Mr. Foxen]

Search is dud, but there are a few threads. Basically, there are loads of pedals with two outs, the Boss TU2 tuner and the Boss LS2 line selector being the favoured two, to straight up split signal. Better than using a line out that can have too hot signal for going right to an amp. Plus splitting before the amp means when that Behringer explodes and dies, you at least have some sound from the other amp.

[justis]

ah ha, so im more likely to do damage to the guitar combo by putting too much into than the bass head by sucking too much out?

looks like im gonna have to find a little cash before putting this idea into fruition.

thanks for the speedy reply though.

Justin

[Mr. Foxen]

Not sure where you get the 'sucking out' from. Pretty much nothing goes straight through, the signal from a line out is going to be amplified (to line level), tuner out might be standard level, I think the Behringer head 'pay homage' to the Ashdown ones that have a tuner out, might be your best bet. Pulling the bass right down on the guitar amp is also advisable, the speakers don't necessarily cope with the amount of power their ratings suggest when it comes to bass. You don't need the low there, as the other amp should cover it.

Really if getting some cash in is involved, get a better bass rig first of all. A blend pedal (LS2) and guitar drive pedals will achieve most of what you are after if the bass amp is decent.

[xgsjx]

I'd suggest an octave pedal set to octave up (or down if you want to play higher up the neck) & maybe add a bass distorton/overdrive if you still want some dirt.

[justis]

yeah, see what your saying there guys. thought this would be the case, as i said i knew there'd be plenty of much better ways to achieve what im after but was just wondering if there was anything i could with what i have to more or less test the sound in the band environment without going out and buying a load of stuff just for it to turn out we need a guitarsit anyways.

cheers for all you help guys

Justin

[keeponehandloose]

All the above would work,but you may well end up with earthing problems.
The best way is an A/B/Y box.One input ,2 outputs.
This will let you have either amp one individually ,or both on at once.One output is isolated so you wont get any earthing loops.

[51m0n]

What you really really need is a crossover or hi-pass filter on the line going to the guitar to knock the bottom octave or so off.

Maybe a limiter too so you dont hit the guitar amp/cab with too big a transient.

Then you could go from your amps tuner out of fx send and not damage the guitar amp.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='justis' post='974971' date='Oct 2 2010, 08:28 AM']can i take a line out from my bass head (a horrible behringer piece of sh*t but it works) or maybe even the effect out and then put it into a guitar combo to give me the ability to have distortion without losing the bass[/quote]Chris Squire's been doing just that since 1968. It's a popular technique.

[Dood]

If the Behri head doesn't have a line out, you'll be more than safe running the Send of the effects loop on the Bass Head in to the input of the Guitar amp. No need for crossovers or anything like that, because the marshall head's preamp naturally filters out excessive bass frequencies long before they get to the amp section of indeed speaker.

[justis]

The behringer does have a line out and thats what got me thinking in the first place. Just glad to hear that nothing will blow up if i do give it a shot


Thanks for all your replies.

Justin

[51m0n]

New I'd seen one before:-

[url="http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=xm"]SFX XM[/url]

I'm sure this little wee beastie from SFX would do exactly what you need, preventing damaging low end from trashing your guitar combo.

Excellent!

[xgsjx]

What about a splitter pedal & on the line to the guitar amp you could insert a pog (or similar), set to play an octave up & a 5th or 7th up as well with no original signal? This way, there's no bass going to the Marshall & it's also a different sound.

[Mr. Foxen]

People worry too much about bass breaking guitar speakers. Bass amps will, if you try and make it sound like a bass with eq, sticking a bass output into a guitar rig is happy though, unless you have loads of bass boost somewhere to try and make it sound like a bass. Trying to sound like guitar is fine.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='976096' date='Oct 3 2010, 04:11 PM']People worry too much about bass breaking guitar speakers. Bass amps will, if you try and make it sound like a bass with eq, sticking a bass output into a guitar rig is happy though, unless you have loads of bass boost somewhere to try and make it sound like a bass. Trying to sound like guitar is fine.[/quote]

Massively disagree with this, I've seen this fail occur.

As soon as you turn it up to gigging volumes the whump causes far greater excursion than a guitar will, result over excursion and very bad things....

You dont need to octave up (though you can if you want) you do need to filter out the whump and it would be considered belt and braces touse a limter to tame the larger transients.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='51m0n' post='976192' date='Oct 3 2010, 05:37 PM']Massively disagree with this, I've seen this fail occur.

As soon as you turn it up to gigging volumes the whump causes far greater excursion than a guitar will, result over excursion and very bad things....

You dont need to octave up (though you can if you want) you do need to filter out the whump and it would be considered belt and braces touse a limter to tame the larger transients.[/quote]

Guitar amps can't make the whump though, especially if driven, they just don't have the power and the drive compresses everything. Running a bass amp into a guitar cab is the problem.

[Dood]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='976197' date='Oct 3 2010, 05:43 PM']Guitar amps can't make the whump though, especially if driven, they just don't have the power and the drive compresses everything. Running a bass amp into a guitar cab is the problem.[/quote]

I agree. If a guitar speaker fails connected to a guitar amp - It's no more likely that it gave way due to a bass attached to it than if it were a guitar attached.