jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Gutted, thats a shame, maybe its just not for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosd Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 Well I've bought myself a decent compressor, so hopefully I should be able to get a bit more definition going on in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I'm not completely sure compressing it will help though, If what you want isn't there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosd Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 [quote name='jay249' post='111432' date='Dec 31 2007, 12:25 PM']I'm not completely sure compressing it will help though, If what you want isn't there in the first place.[/quote] It'll tighten up the frequencies and hopefully give me a bit more punch in larger rooms, surely? Note: I don't have any problems at gigs where soundmen and inhouse PAs aren't involved, ie. pub gigs with my 5 piece covers band. Another problem is my guitarist's (originals band) guitar useage is exclusively acoustic, which tends to cover all the frequencies rather selfishly, I suggested this to the soundman in question and he just sorta shrugged and said "this'll have to do", oh I was angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 [quote name='theosd' post='111445' date='Dec 31 2007, 12:53 PM']Another problem is my guitarist's (originals band) guitar useage is exclusively acoustic, which tends to cover all the frequencies[/quote] A decent sound guy would compensate for this by rolling the bottom-end of the acoustic off a little, if it's boomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theosd Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='111457' date='Dec 31 2007, 01:12 PM']A decent sound guy would compensate for this by rolling the bottom-end of the acoustic off a little, if it's boomy.[/quote] Yes, but he's not. =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I have decided that I don't understand the problem, I can't see how a compressor is the answer, also be careful that you're not being compressed at the desk end as well, compressing a compressed signal from a Stingray can't be good, especially when it's an engineer who doesn't know how to use a compressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Sort out the whole band's sound and even the worst sound man won't be able to screw it up. That means stopping your guitarist from playing too loud and having too much bottom or extended treble in his sound, stopping your drummer from bashing mindlessly - the kick needs to be loud enough acoustically and the cymbals should not overpower the rest of the kit - and everyone controlling their dynamics and naturally slotting into their place in the mix. The more I understand the sound man's job, the more I realise that sound men tend to be more competent than I've given them credit for. Not so long ago I spoke to a sound man because the snare was insanely loud and suggested he turn it down - he then showed me the fader positions which demonstrated that only the kick mic was up and the awful mix FOH was entirely due to an uncontrolled overly loud drummer. Acoustic guitars need tons of bottom taking out if they're being used in a band rather than by a solo singer songwriter. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Excuse my ignorance, but can someone tell me what a compressor actually does? I have one built in on my combo (Marshall B65), but acoustically it seems to make very little difference. Thanks Clive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=337"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=337[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJW Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Alex Claber has it spot on. I dont mean to be all righteous and 'stop picking on us'... but the reason there are so many people perceived to be 'bad soundmen' is twofold. First of all, they aren't bad at all... YOU are bad. Secondly, all the GOOD soundmen have given up doing live sound ages ago because bands are a notoriously terrible group of people to work with. And then of course theres the issue of a bad soundman, a bad PA, or a bad soundman WITH a bad PA. Bands who show up with good gear, and are clued up on how to make it sound good are a dream - because I can mic them up and have to do very little other than make them a bit louder, theyve done all the eq'ing and balancing themselves. Then there's the bands who mid set turn one guitar amp down to 1, and the other to 10, and complain because the guitars all of a sudden arent balanced anymore. For every bass player story on a forum about 'one time there was this sound man' there are 20 sound engineer stories on forums about "this one time there was this dreadful band". Edited December 31, 2007 by NJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 You speak mostly the truth but this is a bass player's forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJW Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I frequent both types, and needless to say, this is my preferred one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Yeah I've had a look at some engineers forums and one in particular that I don't wanna mention to avoid petty arguments with anyone, seemed very sort of...hostile and closed and more like a public discussion between the 'fat cats'. Strange indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 aye some times they dont have a clue a lot of the time the bands are disorganised, dont really know how to communicate what thye want and dont really understand what to ask for. And often all these weekend rock stars are so self centered and rude to PA folk (mainly a guitarists crime?) I used to do P.A. with a large church (big rock style band- all very good musicians) and it was great as you would be doing the same folk most the time. You could build up a relationship of communication and being able to talk to one another. One other problem is if the PA guy doen't really know what you are supposed to sound like. This is not his fault unless you go tell him. One gig i was borrowing the headliners (Glasvegas- top guys) fender bassman head, it was lovely. I got a nice tone, and the sound guy came and had a fiddle and ended up with a indie band twang thing rather than the more dubby end i had dialed in. Again different ideas of what the bass is doing. If the guy has never done a funk band before its not his fault he sets it up like a indie band- you need to go talk to him, explain. For a lot of folk bass is just this lowend rumble. Again with foldback and FOH sound they both effect each other- therefore what you aim for as the sound guy is a compromise between the two. As a band aim to have the foldback as low as possible (often govened by the volume of the drums in the room) To be honest when doing PA i would rather have the band having to play slightly 'blind' in terms of not having as much of themselves as they (think they) need and have a killer FOH sound than give the band exactly what they want and have it sound like mush to the audience. The third thing i would like to suggest may come hard to those who's GAS has caused them to spend thousands on fancy gear. But IMO it's not about you. Or any other of the musicians, its about the noise you make and the ears that hear it. As a soundman i'm trying to blend together all these different sounds to make something great for the audience to hear. Without really clear ideas of what you are aiming for ill just get on and do this the best I can. If it comes down to it and your 'trademark' bass Eq sounds gash on the night I'll either turn you down or try and correct it on the desk. Either will make the band sound better but maybe not you? I wouldn't have any problem ignoring your three grand rig and taking a DI out the bass before your rig if I can make you sound better. You can have a 3 grand foldback! Again communication would improve this situation, give me what i'm after out your rig and i can try and give you what you want. But it's not about you. if that makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I always TRY to get the bass cutting through the mix nicely but it can be difficult depending on equipment tbh. Rolling some bass off of guitars can help but you have to be careful. Usually a mid boost will get it cutting through a bit nicer. However i tend to just tell a bassist what to do with the EQ on his/her amp (unless the amp is terrible ocourse). Even when working as a sound engineer i have encountered sum engineers which are... just rude. For example being told to F off becuase i asked him to make the lead guitar louder than the rhythm guitar.. He did NOT get a pint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davetbass Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 [quote name='charic' post='111621' date='Dec 31 2007, 08:33 PM']Even when working as a sound engineer i have encountered sum engineers which are... just rude. For example being told to F off becuase i asked him to make the lead guitar louder than the rhythm guitar.. He did NOT get a pint![/quote] And you took that? Next time that happens...ask him if he fancies eating your bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6stringbassist Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The biggest problem in my experience is people play too loud. You get to the venue, set up and sound check, then trot off to the bar, come back and start playing, you can't hear yourself properly so you turn up a bit, then the guitarist turns up as well, so a bit later you turn your sound up more, and so on and so on. You end up all over the place, and 9 times out of 10, the sound engineer usually drops every down just leaving the vocals, the poor vocalist by this time is shouting just to hear himself, and who do we all blame.......the poor sound engineer. If everything is going through the PA, then you have to rely on the sound engineer, don't touch your settings once you've finished sound checking, what you hear on stage, isn't necessarily what's being heard out front. Always introduce yourselves as a band to the sound guy, and communicate with him, ask him during the sound check how it sounds, and if there's anything you can do to help. You need to keep the volume level down on stage, and let the PA do its job, you'll then find that you have no problems hearing what you're doing. If you're playing somewhere smaller, then just play at a comfortable volume level, so you can hear yourself, and everyone else, it's a good idea to get a friend who knows what he's talking about to let you know after a couple of songs how it's sounding. I don't advocate buying him a drink, at least not until you've played anyway. After the gig offer to help packing things up, ask if he needs a lift anywhere, if you get asked back he'll remember that, he may even be responsible for booking bands, or be able to put in a good word for you at other venues, most engineers, in my experience work at more than one venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 VERY VERY good post 6SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='111658' date='Dec 31 2007, 10:01 PM']VERY VERY good post 6SB[/quote] Aye good post. Interesting to see that both myself and 6sb are in the same "city" and we have both chosen to avoid the delights that are available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 yeah I know 'That' type of entertainment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 [quote name='Davetbass' post='111623' date='Dec 31 2007, 08:42 PM']And you took that? Next time that happens...ask him if he fancies eating your bass?[/quote] Thatd be a very pricey meal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='111405' date='Dec 31 2007, 11:47 AM']I agree. I've never understood mid-scooping. The mids are the best part of the sound![/quote] I love my smiley face EQ. Am I actually the only bassist in the universe who does? Cuts through the mix and gives me lots of low-end rumble. Boosted mid just sounds weak and weedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 [quote name='tauzero' post='111955' date='Jan 1 2008, 08:10 PM']I love my smiley face EQ. Am I actually the only bassist in the universe who does? Cuts through the mix and gives me lots of low-end rumble. Boosted mid just sounds weak and weedy.[/quote] I find exactly the opposite to be true. How odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay249 Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 Boosted nothing sounds pretty good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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