If John Wetton was in Genesis?

[Stingray5]

This is from 1996 when John Wetton toured with Steve Hackett, playing some rather nice fills too.
For anyone wondering, JW's playing a Fernandes, who he was endorsed by at the time.
Chester Thompson on drums. Niiice!

Guitar solo section from 'Firth of Fifth'

Edited October 5, 2010 by Stingray5

[lonestar]

Thanks for sharing this.
What a great rhythm section. For me Steve Hackett leaving was the final nail in Genesis' coffin and [s]then there were 3[/s] then they became the Phil Collins band.


Aah Wings; the Band the Beatles could of been

Edited October 5, 2010 by lonestar

[Clarky]

[quote name='lonestar' post='978253' date='Oct 5 2010, 12:56 PM']Thanks for sharing this.
For me Steve Hackett leaving was the final nail in Genesis' coffin[/quote]

+1 The gap in quality between 'Wind & Wuthering' and 'And then were three' is immense. For example, Blood on the Rooftops is beautiful Hackett-led song that they would never be able to replicate again

[Bilbo]

[quote name='lonestar' post='978253' date='Oct 5 2010, 12:56 PM']. For me Steve Hackett leaving was the final nail in Genesis' coffin and [s]then there were 3[/s] then they became the Phil Collins band.[/quote]

Ruggish!!

Snowbound, Many Too Many Follow You Follow Me are all classic Genesis. Duke was also a very strong album: Guide Vocal has long been a favourite and Evidence of Autumn (b-side to Misunderstanding/same era) is top drawer stuff. Duchess is stonking, Dukes Travels - all great stuff. Even Mama had some good stuff on it but, by then, it was a case of change or die. If they hadn't started dealing with shorter song forms, they would have disappeared even sooner. You can't blame Collins for that.

[Earbrass]

Thanks for posting that. Never been a Genesis fan, for some reason, not sure why since I love a lot of other prog bands (Crimson, Yes, Gong, Soft Machine, Henry Cow etc), but I love JW's playing and really enjoyed this.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='978277' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:11 PM']Ruggish!!

Snowbound, Many Too Many Follow You Follow Me are all classic Genesis. Duke was also a very strong album: Guide Vocal has long been a favourite and Evidence of Autumn (b-side to Misunderstanding/same era) is top drawer stuff. Duchess is stonking, Dukes Travels - all great stuff. Even Mama had some good stuff on it but, by then, it was a case of change or die. If they hadn't started dealing with shorter song forms, they would have disappeared even sooner. You can't blame Collins for that.[/quote]
^^ This.

See also Burning Rope, The Day the Light Went Out, Dodo, Me & Sarah Jane... great tunes.

[wateroftyne]

[quote]If John Wetton was in Genesis?[/quote]

Based on the clip in the OP, I'm very glad he wasn't.

FoF usually has a lovely understated groove which Mr. Wetton manages to drown in noodling.

[Clarky]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='978326' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:39 PM']^^ This.

See also Burning Rope, The Day the Light Went Out, Dodo, Me & Sarah Jane... great tunes.[/quote]
Scenes from a night's dream (poor little Nemo) - euurrrghhh, sorry

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='978331' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:42 PM']Based on the clip in the OP, I'm very glad he wasn't.

FoF usually has a lovely understated groove which Mr. Wetton manages to drown in noodling.[/quote]

Totally agree! You can hardly tell that it's the same track! Horrible self-indulgent semi-soloing from Wetton that ruins the delicate ambience of one of my favourite Genesis tracks. Yuck! I was expecting him to start slapping!

I don't like it.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Conan

[morsefull]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='978331' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:42 PM']Based on the clip in the OP, I'm very glad he wasn't.

FoF usually has a lovely understated groove which Mr. Wetton manages to drown in noodling.[/quote]


A classic case of overplaying and totally missing the point of the song.

It's great to see the likes of JW doing what I'm still trying not to do, after 30 years of playing ... (OK overplaying)

[Sonic_Groove]

Different strokes for different folks -- I think Johns playing on that is great -- each instrumentalist should be allowed artistic expression or we may as well listen to machines...

B

[Conan]

[quote name='Sonic_Groove' post='978411' date='Oct 5 2010, 02:41 PM']Different strokes for different folks -- I think Johns playing on that is great -- each instrumentalist should be allowed artistic expression or we may as well listen to machines...[/quote]

True, but that section of the track is all about the guitar solo. It needs space and a gentle touch from the other musicians - especially as Wetton is not even attempting to replicate the feel of the original Rutherford bass part. IMO of course!

[toneknob]

JW's playing in that clip is a lot closer to Rutherford's playing in the definitive live version of the song - the version on Second's Out. I think it's a worthy and interesting variation to the line - and much more interesting than the original, which is plodding and lazy in comparison (to both Second's Out and JW's interpretation).

(Incidentally, if you want a new definition of "inappropriate", any interpretation of Hackett's guitar solo by Daryl Steurmer should be under consideration).

As for Genesis, I blame Phil Collins' first divorce. You can plot a line from there of ever-decreasing quality where the drama, magic and thrill of the music gives way to limp pop and love songs. I was in the local sandwich shop yesterday when such a song came on. "sigh, Phil Collins ballads sure are rubbish - glad they were never this bad in Genesis" I thought. Then I realised in was In Too Deep

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='toneknob' post='978425' date='Oct 5 2010, 03:00 PM']JW's playing in that clip is a lot closer to Rutherford's playing in the definitive live version of the song - the version on Second's Out.[/quote]
I agree about SO being the definitive version, but IMO JW's interpretation is nothing like Rutherford's, and it's not as good.

[mart]

[quote name='lonestar' post='978253' date='Oct 5 2010, 12:56 PM']Thanks for sharing this.
What a great rhythm section. For me Steve Hackett leaving was the final nail in Genesis' coffin and [s]then there were 3[/s] then they became the Phil Collins band.


Aah Wings; the Band the Beatles could of been[/quote]

The problem with blaming Phil Collins for all the bad Genesis songs from '78 onwards is that many of the worst Genesis songs were written by Tony Banks or Mike Rutherford!

[Conan]

[quote name='mart' post='978485' date='Oct 5 2010, 03:54 PM']The problem with blaming Phil Collins for all the bad Genesis songs from '78 onwards is that many of the worst Genesis songs were written by Tony Banks or Mike Rutherford![/quote]

Yeah, but let's blame the bald guy anyway!

[toneknob]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='978438' date='Oct 5 2010, 03:17 PM']I agree about SO being the definitive version, but IMO JW's interpretation is nothing like Rutherford's, and it's not as good.[/quote]

IYO

Mike Rutherford's bass-playing took a back seat when he took over guitar duties after Steve Hackett left. Post-W&W it's a very rare bassline indeed that's as much fun to listen to or play as the early/mid-70s stuff. Maybe if a comparable bassist of Wetton's stature had joined on Hackett's departure, things might have been different.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='toneknob' post='978497' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:05 PM']IYO

Mike Rutherford's bass-playing took a back seat when he took over guitar duties after Steve Hackett left. Post-W&W it's a very rare bassline indeed that's as much fun to listen to or play as the early/mid-70s stuff.[/quote]
Meh.. I disagree. The Lady Lies, No Reply at All, Me & Sarah Jane, Behind the Lines, Illegal Alien.... I wouldn't say it was rare!

However, We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations were rotten attempts. He might as well have not bothered.

[toneknob]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='978510' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:11 PM']Meh.. I disagree. The Lady Lies, No Reply at All, Me & Sarah Jane, Behind the Lines, Illegal Alien.... I wouldn't say it was rare!

However, We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations were rotten attempts. He might as well have not bothered.[/quote]

The Lady Lies is one the very rare exceptions BTL is great too admittedly. I love MASJ but never thought the bass playing was stand-out.

NRAA surprises me as it's the one track on Abacab I will pretty much always skip, and I find the bass line a bit cheesy. Shame as otherwise Abacab is just about the last good album. (Genesis has a very good first side then loses it completely on side two - that's track 5 onwards, CD fans)

Also - what I meant to add about the Hackett clip that kicked this off: what's *really* missing is Moog Taurus bass synth.

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='lonestar' post='978253' date='Oct 5 2010, 12:56 PM']Thanks for sharing this.
What a great rhythm section. For me Steve Hackett leaving was the final nail in Genesis' coffin[/quote]

I agree. I think Hackett was a greater loss creatively than Gabriel. You can definitely hear how Tony Banks becomes the dominant influence on ATTWT but it's still a very good record. There are half a dozen cracking songs on there and listen to the fretless playing on Undertow. A great example of how a bassline can make a song.

Phil Collins takes a lot of undeserved flak for the decline of Genesis. Trespass and the rest of their unreleased material from around the same time sounds all quite bland and uninspired to my ears, with the exception of The Knife and White Mountain. The classic Genesis lineup was born when Hackett and Collins joined. Selling England by the Pound was a quantum leap forward after Trespass.

Listen to what Genesis produced post Gabriel compared to what Gabriel himself produced after leaving the band and I think it's obvious who the main creative influences were.

Edited October 5, 2010 by AndyMartin

[DirkThrust]

+1000 What a great song. It never fails to send shivers down my spine

[quote name='Clarky' post='978257' date='Oct 5 2010, 01:00 PM']Blood on the Rooftops is beautiful Hackett-led song that they would never be able to replicate again[/quote]

[lonestar]

[quote name='Conan' post='978489' date='Oct 5 2010, 04:01 PM']Yeah, but let's blame the bald guy anyway! [/quote]
Absolutely see what happens when you give a drummer the microphone.
He's always struck me as being a complete git. Good drummer though especially with Brand X

Edited October 5, 2010 by lonestar

[SteveK]

I remember reading an interview by Phil Collins soon after being anounced as vocalist for Genesis..."I wan't to sing about stuff that relates to people - falling in love, falling out of love". I thought [i]that'll be the end of Genesis then[/i]. Of course I was proved right - as we all know, they sank without trace.

FWIW
Phil Collins? [b]Huge[/b] fan of his drumming - can't bear his singing.

[toneknob]

Absolutely - brilliant, world class drummer. Very good singer late 70s/early-mid 80s Genesis, but his songwriting mostly schmaltzy. His current Motown project - embarassing.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='lonestar' post='978917' date='Oct 5 2010, 02:16 PM']He's always struck me as being a complete git. Good drummer though especially with Brand X[/quote]
I had a few minutes of interaction with him back in '83 or '84. Nothing about music. As he walked away I said "hey, I love Brand X". He rolled his eyes and sneered and crushed my little heart!!!