Markbass NY 122

[Phil-osopher10]

Hey, I'm just wondering if it were any good? does it match up to the standards of the Bergantino etc.

[JMT3781]

i haven't seen one yet in the flesh.. im more excited about the f32... the 2x12 with the porting.. looks mean

[Musicman20]

I owned one very briefly. If I didnt have the Aguilar DB212 I would have kept it.

It looks great, sounds huge, and is very light for the size. Nice top placed handle and expensive looking carpet covering.

MB cabs get some stick, but I think that cab was fantastic.

Did I say it was loud?! Apparently they aimed for quite a 'flat' response.

[Phil-osopher10]

Do you know if it is any better than the tc electronics 2x12?

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' post='981374' date='Oct 8 2010, 10:58 AM']Do you know if it is any better than the tc electronics 2x12?[/quote]

It was about £250 more than my TC cabinet...if I remember.

Id still say my Aguilar DB212 is the king of 2x12s, for the moment.

Re: TC and MB cabs - the TC only comes in 8 ohms, and is actually about the same weight, and has a 'sweeter' high end. The HF are more subtle and its a nice vintage meets modern.

Id say they are both about the same for transporting around.

The MB cab can probably take more watts and throw out more, and will work 'better' with certain amps that seem to achieve the best results at 4 ohms (Markbass).

The RS212 is VERY loud...dont get me wrong. I have only gigged the RS210s so far, and not needed the 212, but Im going to use it as a standalone soon.

If im honest, especially before the price rise on the TC cabs, I would pick the Aguilar DB212 first, then the RS212.

[Phil-osopher10]

Thanks very much! you may have saved me £250. I'll be using a markbass LMIII that should work well with either right?

[Musicman20]

KJung (search on Youtube) from Talkbass has some videos of the LM2 (same amp basically) with the RS210, and states its a very nice match up. I personally think that will be quite a nice match up, and if you want more volume, add another cabinet down the line.

I have tested the LM3 with the RS210 in a practice with a loud drummer and a loud guitarist....NO problems with volume.

I think the RS212 will move more air and give you more of a low-mid kick...quite nice!

I still think the RS cabinets are fantastic, especially for the money!

[machinehead]

Have you thought about the Barefaced Super Twelve 2 x 12?

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/index.php?page=super-twelve"]http://barefacedbass.com/index.php?page=super-twelve[/url]

This cab uses the best drivers available at the price. And at £600 is quite a bargain. I wouldn't pass this one for any other 2 x 12 on the market. It has the best performance and yet weighs only 40lbs. The footprint is very managable for the gigging bass player too and it fits in the boot of any small hatchback.

What more could you want?

I haven't heard a Super Twelve but I have a Barefaced Midget which is half of a similar cab and totally amazing. The internal volume of the 2 x 12 is bigger than a pair of 1 x 12s. The 2 x 12 must be very, very loud and deep.

My next cab will be a Super Twelve.

Frank.

[machinehead]

Just to add, I've had 5 Markbass cabs and I like them a lot but they are not in the same league as the Barefaced cabs. I haven't heard the TC cabs so I can't comment on them.

Frank.

[Musicman20]

The only problem with comparing the BF to TC and Markbass is the actual finish and overall look. The Markbass and TC cabinets look very pricey just in terms of aesthetics.

[machinehead]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='989658' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:08 PM']The only problem with comparing the BF to TC and Markbass is the actual finish and overall look. The Markbass and TC cabinets look very pricey just in terms of aesthetics.[/quote]

If the only problem with Barefaced cabs is the looks and finish I can easily live with that.

However, I like the looks and dispite my dislike of the paint finish ( I prefer carpet) mine seems to be surviving just fine.

I certainly wouldn't buy a cab on looks alone although I definately WOULD buy a cab on sound alone.

You pays yer money and takes yer choice I guess.

Frank.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='machinehead' post='989684' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:38 PM']If the only problem with Barefaced cabs is the looks and finish I can easily live with that.

However, I like the looks and dispite my dislike of the paint finish ( I prefer carpet) mine seems to be surviving just fine.

I certainly wouldn't buy a cab on looks alone although I definately WOULD buy a cab on sound alone.

You pays yer money and takes yer choice I guess.

Frank.[/quote]

Oh don't get me wrong sound is no 1! I've gigged a Compact and it defintely wasn't for me. Super light but everything else wasn't what I expected.

[Phil-osopher10]

I've read up on some of the bareface stuff and without hearing them, thought they seemed interesting. However The reason I have only these two choices is that I am broke and have to pay it off and the company only really do these type of cabs. In future I plan to get a berg cab, and an eden head.... When I have a proper job, damn recession. There is a eden WT400 and a 4x10 going for 700 which I would snap up if I had the money.

In the near future I want to get a 1x12/1x10 for our studio so all I have to do is transport the head!

[machinehead]

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' post='990058' date='Oct 16 2010, 11:45 AM']I've read up on some of the bareface stuff and without hearing them, thought they seemed interesting. However The reason I have only these two choices is that I am broke and have to pay it off and the company only really do these type of cabs. In future I plan to get a berg cab, and an eden head.... When I have a proper job, damn recession. There is a eden WT400 and a 4x10 going for 700 which I would snap up if I had the money.

In the near future I want to get a 1x12/1x10 for our studio so all I have to do is transport the head![/quote]

My first thought is this - why would you want to buy a berg when they use cheaper and lower specified drivers than barefaced and charge you far more? Think carefully before buying.

Frank.

[JTUK]

hmmm...
you serious..?

[Musicman20]

Despite the high spec of the BF drivers, the Bergantino cabinets are world reknowned for being the 'best' your bass can sound....I did own a HS410 and it was extremely 'clear'. I think, if I had the changce, I would have kept it. I do now want some sort of Berg cabinet but Im still thinking of what matches up the best to my current amps. At the moment, I really dont think I need one. Its more of a 'treat' haha.

Are they any better? Well, Im no speaker cab guru, but I would trust Jim's designs over virtually anyone else. That's probably due to reputation more than a massive amount of experience with his cabinets.

One thing you will notice on Bergs is the impecable build quality. Despite the AE line being a little more 'fragile', they literally look like a high end stereo system.

Jim will not ever release his exact driver spec, but Im guessing, and from memory, they are custom Eminence speakers as are most nowadays.

[Phil-osopher10]

I'd be tempted by one of those midgets for the studio. I think when you get to a certain price of cab it is going to be good no matter what, it'll simply come down to personal taste, right?

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='991979' date='Oct 18 2010, 09:44 AM']Are they any better? Well, Im no speaker cab guru, but I would trust Jim's designs over virtually anyone else. That's probably due to reputation more than a massive amount of experience with his cabinets.
...
Jim will not ever release his exact driver spec, but Im guessing, and from memory, they are custom Eminence speakers as are most nowadays.[/quote]

To be honest, with all the software available it's hard to design a simple ported cabinet wrong these days! Stick to tried and trusted proportions, get the tuning right for the driver and an adequate port size and there's not all that much more to it. And from what I understand a custom drive unit will be based on a standard chassis and will typically trade one set of compromises for another. It won't be all that far off the standard production equivalent in most cases. That's not to say the Berg drivers won't have a nice tone, it may well be tweaked to a particular aesthetic, but it's not full of magic 'custom' dust.
I'm no expert at all but I spent a long time reading around the topic a while back, and have made cabs based around Celestion and Eminence drivers including the Deltalite II 2510s, as well as using a few very good PA rigs based around high-spec drivers. People tend to use TS parameters as a proxy for quality, which is missing the point. In terms of sound quality IMO the modern Celestion equivalents are at least as good as the much-praised Eminence units, and the best B&C units (B&C make the Markbass drivers) arguably outstrip both. Whether that gives the tone you like for bass guitar is another matter, but I think the fact that Eminence are American and therefore cheap over there compared to the European units has a lot to do with their reputation and wide useage. A lot of very high end no-compromise PA gear uses B&C. Personally, I think the Markbass gear sounds great with lovely growly prominent mids - but for people who love say the TC RH450 into RS210s, then that Markbass sound is a little off from what you'd consider the ideal, which'd be more biased towards the low-mids. So if I were making the choice, I'd go by tonal preference and assume the quality of the drive units in most proper high-end stuff is similarly good.

Edited October 18, 2010 by LawrenceH

[machinehead]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='992667' date='Oct 18 2010, 07:51 PM']To be honest, with all the software available it's hard to design a simple ported cabinet wrong these days! Stick to tried and trusted proportions, get the tuning right for the driver and an adequate port size and there's not all that much more to it. And from what I understand a custom drive unit will be based on a standard chassis and will typically trade one set of compromises for another. It won't be all that far off the standard production equivalent in most cases. That's not to say the Berg drivers won't have a nice tone, it may well be tweaked to a particular aesthetic, but it's not full of magic 'custom' dust.
I'm no expert at all but I spent a long time reading around the topic a while back, and have made cabs based around Celestion and Eminence drivers including the Deltalite II 2510s, as well as using a few very good PA rigs based around high-spec drivers. People tend to use TS parameters as a proxy for quality, which is missing the point. In terms of sound quality IMO the modern Celestion equivalents are at least as good as the much-praised Eminence units, and the best B&C units (B&C make the Markbass drivers) arguably outstrip both. Whether that gives the tone you like for bass guitar is another matter, but I think the fact that Eminence are American and therefore cheap over there compared to the European units has a lot to do with their reputation and wide useage. A lot of very high end no-compromise PA gear uses B&C. Personally, I think the Markbass gear sounds great with lovely growly prominent mids - but for people who love say the TC RH450 into RS210s, then that Markbass sound is a little off from what you'd consider the ideal, which'd be more biased towards the low-mids. So if I were making the choice, I'd go by tonal preference and assume the quality of the drive units in most proper high-end stuff is similarly good.[/quote]

I agree with most of this. When you get to the higher priced gear, they all seem to use decent drivers so it's down to your preferred sound.

I do think a little technical and engineering knowledge helps though. Otherwise you're at the mercy of the marketing bulls**t or judge on looks.

Frank.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='machinehead' post='992850' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:06 PM']Otherwise you're at the mercy of the marketing bulls**t or judge on looks.[/quote]

I definitely didnt (personally) fall for marketing bullshit. I asked bass players who I trust who have been playing for years, and they arent in the 'sales' arena, so they arent trying to sell anything for anyone or themselves.

Sorry if that wasnt aimed at me.

Yes, I agree aesthetics are not a priority, but if its between a high end fantastic large manufacturer and a small DIY high end manufacturer, I know which I would choose.

I went out there and tested all the cabinets I had in mind. The DB212 just happens to look absolutely stunning as well as sound thick, syrup, warm and articulate. Ive tried a BF product and found it was not for me, and thats at a gig. So I gave it a chance.

Am I vain? Hell yes

The one issue I always consider is resale. In 5 years or so, Aguilar or Bergantino will no doubt still be large if not even larger. Thats me being cautious though.

Im being honest when I say Im glad youve found the cab(s) for you....as I have. I still craze a Bergantino 112 x 2 setup though...but I by no means need it.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Musicman20

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='992902' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:53 PM']Yes, I agree aesthetics are not a priority, but if its between a high end fantastic large manufacturer and a small DIY high end manufacturer, I know which I would choose.[/quote]

If, and it's a big if, all else were equal, then I think I'd usually choose the small manufacturer assuming they were in the same country as me. One voice has a lot more weight with their reputations so I'd hope that would translate to good personal service. East, Shuker, Wizard and Barefaced all seem to fit this judging by the bulk of reports on here. And in terms of value for money, I think the loss of bulk buying power is easily offset by their lower overheads. Despite what I said about the Eminence drivers, the cast chassis Kappalite range Barefaced uses are a lot higher build quality than, for example, the OEM Sica speakers loaded into Tecamp cabs (whose build quality gets raves about) with a noticeably higher rrp. These are pressed steel chassis models and not even the premium Sica models. I was quite surprised when I discovered even quite high end cabs are typically not using the top-range drivers offered by companies like Eminence, Celestion etc. Alex's cabs are by far the best value in this respect. Again though, if you don't like the sound of them then that's all that matters in this particular case! But I would think that reflects a particular aesthetic rather than an inherent aspect of 'small v big' companies.

Wizard are another whose products seem to cost a fair bit less than equivalent big-name offerings. This may reflect the fact that both conventional cabinets and pickups are pretty old, mature technology - most of the hard design work for cabs is done by the speaker manufacturers, the 'big name' cab manufacturers are just box builders really.

[JTUK]

In that case you should at least be able to build a decent looking box.
There are a few self builds on here that are pretty damn decent from the pics...and that is from guys who may profess to not having done anything like this before.

I can do without the MB design and the yellow doesn't do it for me, but like the 210 combo in use. Berg look the business as do some of the Aguilars, IMV

[machinehead]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='992902' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:53 PM']I definitely didnt (personally) fall for marketing bullshit. I asked bass players who I turst who have been playing for years, and they arent in the 'sales' arena, so they arent trying to sell anything for anyone or themselves.

Sorry if that wasnt aimed at me.[/quote]

It wasn't aimed at you in a confrontational way. I was just adding to the debate. Sorry if it seemed like a bit of a dig.

I'm sure you'd admit that none of us are totally immune to marketing bulls**t. I know I'm not, as hard as I try.

Frank.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='JTUK' post='992957' date='Oct 18 2010, 11:37 PM']In that case you should at least be able to build a decent looking box.
There are a few self builds on here that are pretty damn decent from the pics...and that is from guys who may profess to not having done anything like this before.[/quote]

The man hours are the issue! There's a killer build thread on talkbass relating to a composite cab, foamcore and fibreglass I think. Weighs next to nothing, stiffer than a conventional build cab and raw materials cost pretty similar. But the labour is the deal-breaker for making those things commercially, unfortunately, or we'd have cabs that you could carry with one finger.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='machinehead' post='992959' date='Oct 18 2010, 11:38 PM']It wasn't aimed at you in a confrontational way. I was just adding to the debate. Sorry if it seemed like a bit of a dig.

I'm sure you'd admit that none of us are totally immune to marketing bulls**t. I know I'm not, as hard as I try.

Frank.[/quote]

No worries!

I must admit, sometimes I do fall for marketing, but I try my hardest to test it beforehand.