Is technique that important?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='983984' date='Oct 11 2010, 01:10 AM']Why can’t people just say it as it is? They are happy doing what they are doing and can’t be bothered to lean any more instead of pretending it’s an artistic decision.[/quote]

The way I see it time is a finite resource, and any time I spend learning to slap or completely re-working my perfectly adequate picking technique to make my thumb hover for no other reason than some guy I've never met said it was a good idea, is time wasted.

[toneknob]

[quote name='Bay Splayer' post='983579' date='Oct 10 2010, 06:01 PM']4mins 36 sec ..... technique

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqmjbiA_wnc"]pino[/url][/quote]

Pino's fingers were the stunt double for the face huggers in the Alien films

[MacDaddy]

so what do we think of Jamerson? Appalling technique - no teacher would advise a pupil to just pick with one finger - yet we can't deny his genius.

[SteveK]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984331' date='Oct 11 2010, 12:40 PM']so what do we think of Jamerson? Appalling technique - no teacher would advise a pupil to just pick with one finger - yet we can't deny his genius.[/quote]
We can all name 1 or 2 great musicians that have never studied or had a lesson in their life - They are very few and far between.

Safe to assume that you (or I) are not one of them and need to put the hours in.

[xilddx]

It seems everyone is discussing this without any definition of what BassBus meant by "technique". I presume he means "Correct Technique" as in positioning and playing the instrument as you would be taught by a professional. But it could also mean technical facility.

I can't understand why you are discussing this at all. Had the question been what I think BB is really saying, "Do I need to have good enough technical facility and operational technique to play to my instrument to satisfy myself and the needs of my musical situation." would you still be discussing it?

To me, it's a just a pointless question thread started by someone who just wanted to start a thread, which I imagine a fair few of us have done, certainly including me

[Doddy]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984331' date='Oct 11 2010, 12:40 PM']so what do we think of Jamerson? Appalling technique - no teacher would advise a pupil to just pick with one finger - yet we can't deny his genius.[/quote]
Yes,but importantly, Jamerson came from an Upright background,where plucking with one finger has been a tradition for years. There are a lot of players who have never had that training and haven't developed the facility of using one finger like that.

[WalMan]

"Play for the music" - definitely. That should surely be high on the list if not number one

Technique, be it scales, modes, etc., or particular styles are just the building blocks to assist you in achieving the end of playing music.

Slapping at 100mph through every song because you can, be it country, ballad, rock, whatever, is not IMO "playing music". Listening to what everyone else is doing, locking in with the drummer to provide a solid base and using the "big guns" judiciously is waaaay more important.

If you have been playing for a few years, and use your ears to listen to what's going on around you, then quite possibly you do actually have a fair bit of technique and play the modes etc, but just do not realise it because you have not had it explained to you.

Taking lessons and gaining technical skills merely widens your palate and will not grind inate feel out of you so long as you use what you learn sensibly and continue to listen and play for the band/music, not yourself.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='WalMan' post='984424' date='Oct 11 2010, 01:53 PM']Slapping at 100mph through every song because you can[/quote]

Haha, you can only do 100mph?

Weak.

[Bilbo]

Technique is a means to an end. You need enough to do what your ears, the composer or the dots tell you is required. Anything else is superfluous. If you can hear it or are required to play it and can't execute the phrases, you need to work on your technique. Simples.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='984450' date='Oct 11 2010, 02:19 PM']If you can hear it or are required to play it and can't execute the phrases, you need to work on your technique.[/quote]

Or you need to tell the composer to stop writing prog rock songs or he's out of the band.

[WalMan]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='984435' date='Oct 11 2010, 02:01 PM']Haha, you can only do 100mph?

Weak.[/quote]
I wish!! I can't even do 1 mph Then again I have no need or inclination to do so.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='SteveK' post='984365' date='Oct 11 2010, 01:05 PM']We can all name 1 or 2 great musicians that have never studied or had a lesson in their life - They are very few and far between.

Safe to assume that you (or I) are not one of them and need to put the hours in.[/quote]

I'm definitely not a great musician who has never studied or had a lesson in their life. I've had lessons

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='984450' date='Oct 11 2010, 02:19 PM']Technique is a means to an end. You need enough to do what your ears, the composer or the dots tell you is required. Anything else is superfluous. If you can hear it or are required to play it and can't execute the phrases, you need to work on your technique.[/quote]
This is what I was trying to say.

[SteveK]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984541' date='Oct 11 2010, 04:05 PM']I'm definitely not a great musician who has never studied or had a lesson in their life. I've had lessons [/quote]


Apologies if I misunderstood your post.

You seemed to be getting dangerously close to the [i]"yeah, but what about the legendary Jaco Miller - he never had a lesson in his entire life - I'm going his route"[/i] type post

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984541' date='Oct 11 2010, 04:05 PM']I've had lessons [/quote]
LESSONS?...That's it then, you're destined to a musical life of clichés, constant widdling and general bad taste bassiness...

...according to some

[risingson]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='984331' date='Oct 11 2010, 12:40 PM']so what do we think of Jamerson? Appalling technique - no teacher would advise a pupil to just pick with one finger - yet we can't deny his genius.[/quote]

No way, Jamerson didn't have appalling technique! He had unconventional technique, but in no way was it appalling.

There is no right or wrong way to do anything in the realms of popular music. Your technique isn't up for severe scrutiny unless it is unnecessarily impeding the song you're playing, that's the only time technique becomes an issue. It's preferable to have good technique of course because otherwise it proves difficult to play what you can hear in your head. But ultimately surely technique is the thing that should compliment your musicality and not the other way round, that's when you develop the bedroom players on Youtube that can fretw*nk till their hands fall off but give them a I IV V and they go to sh*t.

[Soliloquy]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='983867' date='Oct 10 2010, 10:21 PM']so on that metaphor wimbledon beating liverpool to win the 1989 FA cup is punk?
a team playing the simplest football with passion can beat the most pure football sides with the best technique. As a spurs fan ill ask when arsenal last won something.... [/quote]

They were both professional teams, so I should imagine that their individual technical abilities were somewhat better than the average player.

I can't imagine a coach on the eve of a big match saying to his team, "Ok lads, we won't practice ball control, or penalty taking, or dribbling or whatever today, just play with a load of passion and we'll win"

[peteb]

[quote name='Soliloquy' post='984791' date='Oct 11 2010, 07:44 PM']They were both professional teams, so I should imagine that their individual technical abilities were somewhat better than the average player.

I can't imagine a coach on the eve of a big match saying to his team, "Ok lads, we won't practice ball control, or penalty taking, or dribbling or whatever today, just play with a load of passion and we'll win" [/quote]
Kevin Keegan???

[BassBus]

[quote name='risingson' post='984630' date='Oct 11 2010, 05:25 PM']No way, Jamerson didn't have appalling technique! He had unconventional technique, but in no way was it appalling.

There is no right or wrong way to do anything in the realms of popular music. Your technique isn't up for severe scrutiny unless it is unnecessarily impeding the song you're playing, that's the only time technique becomes an issue. It's preferable to have good technique of course because otherwise it proves difficult to play what you can hear in your head. But ultimately surely technique is the thing that should compliment your musicality and not the other way round, that's when you develop the bedroom players on Youtube that can fretw*nk till their hands fall off but give them a I IV V and they go to sh*t.[/quote]
Now this is the point I was trying to put across. There are great players out there without any training and technique to their playing that is not accepted as the norm. Perhaps it's those players who move ability forward taking it to new areas which the rest of us follow.

[risingson]

[quote name='BassBus' post='984892' date='Oct 11 2010, 08:50 PM']Now this is the point I was trying to put across. There are great players out there without any training and technique to their playing that is not accepted as the norm. Perhaps it's those players who move ability forward taking it to new areas which the rest of us follow.[/quote]

Technique is a nice thing, the problem comes when technique compromises your musicality, I see it all the time when I go to gigs and see people compensating for a lack of musicality with a flurry of slapping and tapping, executed with little to no discretion. IMO there are too many bass players that suffer from the idea that without mind-bending technique, their position as a bass player is going to be viewed as a simple/easy post that anyone with basic knowledge of music could fill. Wrong... bass is all about feel and timing. It takes years of practice to get it right.

[chris_b]

[quote name='BassBus' post='984892' date='Oct 11 2010, 08:50 PM']....Now this is the point I was trying to put across. There are great players out there without any training and technique to their playing that is not accepted as the norm....[/quote]
I don't know of any great bass players who have no or poor technique. Can anyone name one?

ps, James Jamerson had a lot of musical training, on the double bass. He could fluently read music and while his electric bass playing looked awkward he had a mountain of technique and musical knowledge.

[BassBus]

[quote name='risingson' post='984934' date='Oct 11 2010, 09:39 PM']Technique is a nice thing, the problem comes when technique compromises your musicality, I see it all the time when I go to gigs and see people compensating for a lack of musicality with a flurry of slapping and tapping, executed with little to no discretion. IMO there are too many bass players that suffer from the idea that without mind-bending technique, their position as a bass player is going to be viewed as a simple/easy post that anyone with basic knowledge of music could fill. Wrong... bass is all about feel and timing. It takes years of practice to get it right.[/quote]
Perhaps this makes your point.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwLPseckQ4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLwLPseckQ4[/url]

Very competent playing but for me it doesn't really fit in with the latic rhythm behind it.

[quote name='chris_b' post='985095' date='Oct 12 2010, 12:37 AM']I don't know of any great bass players who have no or poor technique. Can anyone name one?

ps, James Jamerson had a lot of musical training, on the double bass. He could fluently read music and while his electric bass playing looked awkward he had a mountain of technique and musical knowledge.[/quote]
I could have phrased that better. Players like Geddy Lee and Phil Lynot have not, to my knowledge, had any degree of training. They have developed their own technique which has worked very well with the music they have played in.

Edited October 12, 2010 by BassBus

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='SteveK' post='984613' date='Oct 11 2010, 05:02 PM']

Apologies if I misunderstood your post.

You seemed to be getting dangerously close to the [i]"yeah, but what about the legendary Jaco Miller - he never had a lesson in his entire life - I'm going his route"[/i] type post[/quote]

no worries

[quote name='chris_b' post='985095' date='Oct 12 2010, 12:37 AM']I don't know of any great bass players who have no or poor technique. Can anyone name one?[/quote]

depends on your definition of great. I would say the (arguably) second most successful bassist in popular music could be considered great by that fact alone, but he has poor technique by just using his thumb to pick.

[Thunderthumbs]

[quote name='Bay Splayer' post='983579' date='Oct 10 2010, 06:01 PM']4mins 36 sec ..... technique

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqmjbiA_wnc"]pino[/url][/quote]
Bloody brilliant. Pino's always someone to me who adds something to a song, without overwhelming it in any way whatsoever.

[Doddy]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='985820' date='Oct 12 2010, 03:24 PM']I would say the (arguably) second most successful bassist in popular music could be considered great by that fact alone, but he has poor technique by just using his thumb to pick.[/quote]

Who's that then?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MacDaddy' post='985820' date='Oct 12 2010, 03:24 PM']I would say the (arguably) second most successful bassist in popular music could be considered great by that fact alone, but he has poor technique by just using his thumb to pick.[/quote]
I don't know who you are referring to, but I don't see that 'just using the thumb' is necessarily poor technique.