Why don't bass companies do sound samples of their basses..

[bubinga5]

Ok im no luthier.. ....my point is why oh why do bass builders not show what there basses can do...im aware that alot of bass luthiers dont do it because of the choice that they give but Mr John Shuker does it and he gives a wealth of choice...

this surely is a good way to promote your instruments,.. letting people know what they sound like...Lakland do it....im baffled???

Ok its this simple...

sound samples

Ash body with..... Barts or BL's :

Alder Body with...Barts or BL's :

and all the variants... you get the picture

it would bring in so much business surely...i want to know what these basses sound like... i brought a Sadowsky RV5 once and i really wanted to know what they sounded like. but i couldnt..ok ive got youtube but it aint the same... i wanted to know what a Sadowsky sounded like... i bought it blind in the end from you tube clips and good word...ok it was a bad ass bass..

is there any reason why Roger and other companies dont do this?..

the only company that i know are Lakland and it is soooo helpfull, in the choice of a bass.....i just cant understand why these bass companies dont do it..

Before you say it im aware that alot of these bass builders dont have there own pup or amp/preamp brands, but alot do and still dont erm......do it...whats up...

[chris_b]

Is a sound clip very accurate? The Bass Tasters site seemed good but I wouldn't favour one bass over another unless I'd actually heard it.

I think there are too many variables to make a sound clip work.

[Ou7shined]

It is a good idea but it is all so subjective, for a start how many people have really nice auditioning speakers/headphones hooked up to their computer. Would you really want people scratching you off the GAS list because your online samples don't come across well.
When I've heard some "corporate" sound samples they've tended to put me off anyway, if only because you invariably have some impresario riffing away as best as he can in a style that's not applicable to you. And who's to say that his fingers are getting the tone your fingers would?
I think it might be best to hear a tone you like (maybe by chance) and then go and research how that sound is made.

[bubinga5]

Ok.. its a very general thing..Lakland have a set up like..

Fingerstyle

Pick

Slap..

for every bass..

that works for me...if i was to buy a Laky on those parameters i look at those and hear what i like.....i know i would get a tone out of that said bass...
Ok, you have your style so maybe you could get more, but i know where my bassics are coming from....Every one loves a certain tone and they recognise a good one....it dont take much to take the cover off it...

[BigRedX]

Because it's meaningless.

All it shows is how that particular player sounds with that particular bass through whatever rig they were using and recorded in a particular way.

It certainly won't tell me how I'm going to sound with the version of the bass that I get to play.

There's simply too may variables. Every piece of wood sounds slightly different, so every bass will sound slightly different. Where and how you pluck the string makes a massive difference to the sound. If you use a pick, the pick material also changes the sound. That's already too may variables before we even start to consider the contribution the amp, speakers and recording path will will make.

Finally the clips will have been MP3 compressed so they've been altered yet further from the original recordings.

Meaningless.

[Machines]

I don't think it's meaningless - the Lakland ones to my ears are quite transparent. I compared my 55-02 to the website samples (DI'd to headphones) and it was spot on. More manufacturers should do it, it gives an idea what the basic tone of an instrument is and then you can work out yourself what your rig will do to that tone.

[Beedster]

+1 to the comments above. In short, most basses would sound crap soloed through the media used by the average punter, so most companies prefer that the customer buys according to the tone they imagine in their head, and not the one they'd hear through their laptop. The sound in the punter's head is the sound of the great players playing through great rigs, well EQ'd on great tracks etc etc. It's simple market forces, if manufacturers thought providing soundclips would help sell basses, they'd have done it.

C

[henry norton]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='986516' date='Oct 13 2010, 03:26 AM']Ok.. its a very general thing..Lakland have a set up like..

Fingerstyle

Pick

Slap..

for every bass..

that works for me...if i was to buy a Laky on those parameters i look at those and hear what i like.....i know i would get a tone out of that said bass...
Ok, you have your style so maybe you could get more, but i know where my bassics are coming from....Every one loves a certain tone and they recognise a good one....it dont take much to take the cover off it...[/quote]
+1 on that - if anything I think this system is good because it'll show how much or (maybe more importantly) how little difference there is between different pickups, woods and construction. You should always try before you buy anyway but sound samples might mean you're trying ten basses instead of a hundred.

The majority of your sound is still in your style of playing, choice of strings & amp/cabs.

[paul h]

It's far from meaningless. The Lakland sound clips are very useful. For a instance it's easy to hear a difference between the Bob Glaub and Duck Dunn models which in itself is enough to help formulate an opinion.

And as for quality of sound, surely no computer literate, thorough researching, Lakland affording bass player is going to listen through laptop speakers to make a decision? Headphones or an aux in to a stereo are both easily achievable solutions.

IIRC Fender did actually have some sound samples a few website versions ago.

[charic]

I suspect the real reason is time and cost...

[throwoff]

It is pretty meaningless, you could record hundreds of samples for each bass and still never get one that is 'the sound' whoever is buying it wants.

It's a bit like when you go to a music store they often plug you into a VERY expensive high end amp when you want to try a bass so you hear it in the best way you can.

I always make sure I ask to play through the most similar amp to my own rig the store has, failing that the cheapest piece of rubbish they have. If it sounds good through that it will most likely sound good through my amp!

A good guitarist friend of mine a few years back in Sound Control tried a guitar for some time through a Mesa Dual Rec and 4x12 and fell in love and was about to part with the cash, I convinced him to plug into the Line 6 Spider they had in there because it was the amp he used at home and he completely changed his mind, decided what he actually wanted was a Dual Rec.

[Chris2112]

I think its a great idea. You can assume that the sounds will never be more than a "ball park" kind of approximation of what the basses like, but it's nice to have something rather than nothing! For instance, check out the sound clips of the Kubicki I'll link below. These have been on the Kubicki website for ages and are played by Vail Johnson, who has used Kubicki basses for years.

They give a good idea of what a Kubicki sounds like out of the box through a fairly transparent preamp. But even then, I can see how basses can sound different next to each other. My first Kubicki Ex Factor sounded closer to this sound than the one I have now does, and they were played through the same amp with the same strings.

[url="http://www.kubicki.com/player.php"]http://www.kubicki.com/player.php[/url]

clip 9 is rather good.

The Kubicki I have now sounds a lot more like the one in the clip below. Funny, as both basses are 1989 models with Fender custom shop stamps and are part of the few "crossover" models that have the custom shop stamp but were assembled in the original shop with the original staff and parts.

[Musicman20]

The Lakland ones are helpful, but there is no indication (I dont think) as to what pickups are used (eg Fralin, Hanson, etc).

Personally, its nice to have the samples, but not something that would make me 'buy' a bass. Too many variables to consider.

[charic]

And they can't always put their pups in the right place

[thodrik]

I just don't think it comes across as well, as there are lots of variables lead to nuances between basses which appear pretty obvious in person but end up sounding pretty similar when recorded. It easy (ish) to tell a difference between a Jazz and a Precision, but between rosewood and maple fingerboards, and different pickups or different models, the differences could be so minimal as to actaully make the different options seem unnecessary or just for looks, which is not something companies would want.

I don't mind 'ballpark' examples of the sounds of certain models of bass. However, most high-end companies are keen to stress that you can acheive 'virtually any' sound with their particular type of bass. So if they then have a video or audio demo of 'this bass sounds like this' it kind of defeats the point. Also the way I play will be totally different to the person doing the demo anyway, so really how useful is the sound sample anyway?

Personally for me it doesn't work for cabs either. I think that Mesa Boogie did a big video blog on the differences between the different bass cabs. To be honest, although there was maybe some difference between the sounds it could have been down to mic placement, or that they used a different bass or for each cab (which seemed to me to defeat the point of a 'cab' test). As my guitar-playing brother would say '...Yep, it sounds a bass. Wow.'

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='thodrik' post='986820' date='Oct 13 2010, 12:15 PM']I just don't think it comes across as well, as there are lots of variables lead to nuances between basses which appear pretty obvious in person but end up sounding pretty similar when recorded. It easy (ish) to tell a difference between a Jazz and a Precision, but between rosewood and maple fingerboards, and different pickups or different models, the differences could be so minimal as to actaully make the different options seem unnecessary or just for looks, which is not something companies would want.

I don't mind 'ballpark' examples of the sounds of certain models of bass. [b]However, most high-end companies are keen to stress that you can acheive 'virtually any' sound with their particular type of bass. So if they then have a video or audio demo of 'this bass sounds like this' it kind of defeats the point.[/b] Also the way I play will be totally different to the person doing the demo anyway, so really how useful is the sound sample anyway?

[b]Personally for me it doesn't work for cabs either. I think that Mesa Boogie did a big video blog on the differences between the different bass cabs. To be honest, although there was maybe some difference between the sounds it could have been down to mic placement, or that they used a different bass or for each cab (which seemed to me to defeat the point of a 'cab' test). As my guitar-playing brother would say '...Yep, it sounds a bass. Wow.'[/b][/quote]

Good point about the "virtually any sound".

Totally, have you heard the Schroeder clips of all their cabs - a guy playing along with a drum kit filmed in some random room with the sound recorded by the camera's mic.

[51m0n]

Whilst its true of cabs that you have mic placement, room blah blah blah we are talking about a bass here.

If you D.I a bass with as short a signal path to the recorder and apply no eq then you have a really good representation of what that bass sounds like. Clealry you need to note the strings used, piuckup selection, preamp settings and the playing style as well. And yes it wont sound exactly like you playing the part, but it will be a good indication of the timbre of the instrument.

If the basses all sound significantly different in that line then the company has a huge problem with QC. WIth todays modern build techniques and reliance on machined parts then the actual piece of wood is the diff, and I reckon thats a pretty darned small tolerance to be able to notice. Its slightly different for entirely handcrafted instruments I would think.

My cans plugged into my machine are good enough to mix on (at least pretty well), I can certainly gauge a bass tone with them!

Ed Friedlands youtube clips are spot on IMO, albeit the audio is compressed.

It would be even better if they did it as high quality FLAC downloads though (24 bit/96KHz) because you really really can hear the difference (assuming you dont have impaired hearing).

[Bilbo]

There is a lovely story where, early in their career, Van Halen were touring in support of Ted Nugent. Eddie Van Halen's sound was the talk of the town and Nugent asked to try his gear. He picked up EVH's guitar without touching a single knob on his guitar or amp and sounded exactly like Ted Nugent.

I find every bass I play (which are few, to be fair) sounds more like me than it does the label on the headstock and would not buy a bass on the basis of a website 'sample'. But, then again, I have cloth ears and can't hear the difference between basses the way some of you guys say you can. I don't know what a 'classic' Fender Precision or Jazz sound is. I can recognise players but not the basses they play.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='51m0n' post='987023' date='Oct 13 2010, 03:13 PM']If you D.I a bass with as short a signal path to the recorder and apply no eq then you have a really good representation of what that bass sounds like. Clealry you need to note the strings used, piuckup selection, preamp settings and the playing style as well. And yes it wont sound exactly like you playing the part, but it will be a good indication of the timbre of the instrument.[/quote]

+1.

If you're experienced enough to know the limitations of what you're listening to, then the clips can be very useful to give you an idea of the ball-park sort of sound.
In a similar vein I remember hearing a clip from a company that made a bass with a bridge pup that was switchable between 60s and 70s jazz position and it was the first time I truly appreciated the specific effect that shifting it over 1/4 of an inch had on the sound without being confounded by other variables. To get the same appreciation I'd have had to play a fair number of basses with both positions.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='987034' date='Oct 13 2010, 03:25 PM']There is a lovely story where, early in their career, Van Halen were touring in support of Ted Nugent. Eddie Van Halen's sound was the talk of the town and Nugent asked to try his gear. He picked up EVH's guitar without touching a single knob on his guitar or amp and sounded exactly like Ted Nugent.[/quote]

You see this is nonsense to me. Is anyone suggesting that if Ted had played an E chord or just an open E string it would have sounded 'exactly' like Ted's rig did?

Really?

Or are they all confusing playing nuances with tone (ie the actually sonic timbre of the guitar/strings/pups/fx/amp/room combination)?

Or is is that both rigs actually sound pretty similar tonally?

So if I were to offer Ted a go on a guitar rig, then regardless of [b]anything[/b] I might do to it setup wise it would always sound [b]exactly[/b] like Ted's rig would it?

I'm willing to bet considerable money that a) thats not so, and b ) I can show that it isnt so.



[quote name='Bilbo' post='987034' date='Oct 13 2010, 03:25 PM']I find every bass I play (which are few, to be fair) sounds more like me than it does the label on the headstock and would not buy a bass on the basis of a website 'sample'. But, then again, I have cloth ears and can't hear the difference between basses the way some of you guys say you can. I don't know what a 'classic' Fender Precision or Jazz sound is. I can recognise players but not the basses they play.[/quote]


See I dont believe that either Bilbo, I believe you when you say you hear yourself playing the same way, I dont believe that it makes no difference what bass you pickup or how you set the controls, that bass sounds the same as all the rest. That is, the nature of the waveform produced by the instrument will not be different, I just think you may be listening to the notes/harmony/melody/MUSIC rather than the sound.

For instance my Roscoe has a seriously overpowered eq, are you really trying to tell me that whatever I do with it its always going to sound the same if you play it?

I can almost always tell a P bass vs a Jazz, so can you. Its startlingly obvious, especially with roundwounds IME. Extreme eq can do a lot to camouflage them. I'm not a Fender nerd though, so I cant differentiate a 60's vs 70's jazz.

In fact I find that its the pickup configurations, electronics and strings that make the biggest differences in similar quality instruments. Not the wood, construction (ie neck through vs bolt on) or colour.

[LukeFRC]

i think one person playing different basses and giving an opinion like ed freidland or something is pretty good.

I think the companies are not going to do it because, apart from the very bottom end and the top to pro's they are selling the idea as much as the bass.
The idea this is a design classic, or fits a certain type of music or is made with a particular skill or of rare woods or something.
Sound clips would strip much of this away, the difference between an affinity jazz and an us standard jazz might not be noticable enough for instance.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='Beedster' post='986586' date='Oct 13 2010, 08:29 AM']+1 to the comments above. In short, most basses would sound crap soloed through the media used by the average punter.[/quote]

Surely people prepared to pay high end prices for basses would be clued enough to use decent sound equipment to test the sound. Probably wouldn't work for low end stuff for the reason you mention. But for high end stuff, surely people would know how to listen.

I'm listening to the Lakland site right now on Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro headphones through an M-Audio Fastrack Pro audio interface. And I think I'm getting a good idea of how the basses [b]could[/b] sound.

I was advised to go to the Lakland site when I was first looking for a bass, to learn the differences between J and P sounds, and I don't think I was misled in any way.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='987186' date='Oct 13 2010, 06:34 PM']I'm listening to the Lakland site right now on Beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro headphones through an M-Audio Fastrack Pro audio interface. And I think I'm getting a good idea of how the basses [b]could[/b] sound.[/quote]
Bear in mind [i]most[/i] people listening to the music we're all playing (on our ultra expensive basses through state of the art amplification) are either using second-rate stereo equipment or a s##t PA with a sound engineer who doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

Just a thought - I still think sound samples can at least give you a good comparison if not a "true" sound

[Cat Burrito]

I'm sure it could aid online sales. It's been said before but a lot of people are listening through rubbish laptop speakers which I'm sure do bass players few favours. I'd welcome it personally