Leeds College of music

[stingrayPete1977]

Not just Dum...Dum...Dum...Dum then?

[risingson]

[quote name='skej21' post='989756' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:41 PM']Yeah sorry, I was trying to inject of bit of humour into this somewhat intense theory discussion... I'll get my coat.[/quote]

In that case, I'll play whatever way the great Elizabeth Windsor got taught to play. She's a mean fretless player ya know.

[skej21]

[quote name='risingson' post='989766' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:44 PM']In that case, I'll play whatever way the great Elizabeth Windsor got taught to play. She's a mean fretless player ya know.[/quote]

Yeah I heard that, but she has to keep it secret from Phillip... he just can't hold his tongue around that unlined Ebony neck!

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989716' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:17 PM']I have no grades at all nor can I read music (the same for many musicians if we are still allowed to call ourselves that?) and recently spent an evening with a very fine classical player who came to a blues jam with me a couple of years ago and said he wished he could do that,I thought he was taking the piss at first but he wasnt and he got me to go and show him the basics of the 12 bar and a few simple licks to get him started. I was amazed at what he could play if it was in front of him and literally nothing without! It was like some kind of comedy sketch. You cant teach rock its not possible ,Look at cold play and all that stuff,Middle class mushy rockers cant do a full on Metallica thing,They think they can and I have played with some top notch drummers that read symbols and all sorts of stuff but when it comes to the final rock out at the end,Nothing.....its not on the page.[/quote]
I played bass on a Total Guitar magazine CD (issue 10 if anyone cares) because the magazine wanted a club band type vibe rather than schooled musicians. I was hugely flattered at the time & I think we always admire players who are different to us. I have the upmost respect for people who read music etc & it amazes me on the rare occasions they tell me they like my style.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989716' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:17 PM']I have no grades at all nor can I read music (the same for many musicians if we are still allowed to call ourselves that?) and recently spent an evening with a very fine classical player who came to a blues jam with me a couple of years ago and said he wished he could do that,I thought he was taking the piss at first but he wasnt and he got me to go and show him the basics of the 12 bar and a few simple licks to get him started. I was amazed at what he could play if it was in front of him and literally nothing without! It was like some kind of comedy sketch. You cant teach rock its not possible ...[/quote]
A guitarist I sometimes play with was fully classically trained yet he is the most swinging finger-style blues guitarist I have ever played with. The reason for this is that he has studied and extensively played in both classical [i]and[/i] blues genres. Your guitarist appears not to have done this.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989716' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:17 PM']... Look at cold play and all that stuff,Middle class mushy rockers cant do a full on Metallica thing ...[/quote]
I can't bear to listen to Coldplay and equally I can't bear to listen to Metallica - for me, both dull as dishwater - and aren't some of Metallica middle-class too?

[steve-soar]

Is music art, or, a product. I think both, and both camps will scrap it out until the end of time, hopefully.

[Clarky]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='989783' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:57 PM']I can't bear to listen to Coldplay and equally I can't bear to listen to Metallica - for me, both dull as dishwater - and aren't some of Metallica middle-class too?[/quote]
Dave, please never bracket Metallica (my favourite band) with Coldplay again. Or we are through

[TimR]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989745' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:37 PM']Yep (sorry cars again!) but theres an old chap near me that does tuning on all the old classic cars by ear just like a musician and they run sweet as a nut. Experience of knowing what he is listening for just the same as playing in a band IMO.[/quote]

Indeed there are mechanics who tinker with old cars but there are engineers who design jet engines.

A drummer friend of mine told me if I wanted to look at some complex theory based music I should listen to Metallica. WTF? I was listening to Metallica before he was born, I nearly fell of my stool.

There have been many instances where classical players can't swing and where one musician has been chosen over another because of style.

As far as I'm concerned it is an art. Some prefer watercolours, some oils. I've studied a lot of theory and know how to write down the pop songs so that I can play them and so that my keyboard player knows what's going on. Usually my charts involve a mixture of traditional staff notation and chord charts.

I'm surprised that a music college doesn't have a huge amount of performance based coursework and that musicians can pass courses without being able to perform in a group situation.

I know that Middlesex University does a number of music related courses, I played with a really good drummer whose second instrument was piano. He knew more theory than anyone else I've ever met, and he was under 20 years old, but his course was Jazz and I never heard him play anything else.

Maybe the problem with the OP is that the musicians he is playing with have come from a specific course that is not related to the style of music he is playing?

Edited October 15, 2010 by TimR

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Clarky' post='989797' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:22 PM']Dave, please never bracket Metallica (my favourite band) with Coldplay again. Or we are through [/quote]
My most sincere apologies Clarky ... however, it is the truth that I just don't do metal (and its derivatives) ... I understand that others, your good self included, do.

BTW, I'm loving the VT Bass.

[Clarky]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='989818' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:37 PM']My most sincere apologies Clarky ... however, it is the truth that I just don't do metal (and its derivatives) ... I understand that others, your good self included, do.

BTW, I'm loving the VT Bass.[/quote]
Glad to hear the VT bass is working - fab pedal but I am lazy and wanted an XLR line out hence swapped for the sonically inferior (but still good) Sansamp

Regarding the former, Metallica make me want to punch the air and shout "F8ck yeah!" whereas Coldplay make me want to punch a wall and shout "f*ck off"!

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Clarky' post='989824' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:41 PM']Glad to hear the VT bass is working - fab pedal but I am lazy and wanted an XLR line out hence swapped for the sonically inferior (but still good) Sansamp

Regarding the former, Metallica make me want to punch the air and shout "F8ck yeah!" whereas Coldplay make me want to punch a wall and shout "f*ck off"![/quote]
Ha ha!, I appreciate that the two bands are unalike and that we agree about Coldplay. I believe some people rather like Coldplay.

[Clarky]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='989837' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:51 PM']I believe some people rather like Coldplay.[/quote]
Sadly, Mrs Clarky is one of them

[ironside1966]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='989716' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:17 PM']I have no grades at all nor can I read music (the same for many musicians if we are still allowed to call ourselves that?) and recently spent an evening with a very fine classical player who came to a blues jam with me a couple of years ago and said he wished he could do that,I thought he was taking the piss at first but he wasnt and he got me to go and show him the basics of the 12 bar and a few simple licks to get him started. I was amazed at what he could play if it was in front of him and literally nothing without! It was like some kind of comedy sketch. You cant teach rock its not possible ,Look at cold play and all that stuff,Middle class mushy rockers cant do a full on Metallica thing,They think they can and I have played with some top notch drummers that read symbols and all sorts of stuff but when it comes to the final rock out at the end,Nothing.....its not on the page.[/quote]

Of course you can teach rock.
I bet there are many players on this forum that could go from a reading gig and then rock out with the best of them, playing classical l is a different discipline and is not about self composition although it is about interpretation.

Edited October 16, 2010 by ironside1966

[Truckstop]

I passed my Grade 8 when I was 17 and I don't think I've ever played to that standard since!

Truckstop

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='990069' date='Oct 16 2010, 11:57 AM']Of course you can teach rock.
I bet there are many players on this forum that could go from a reading gig and then rock out with the best of them, playing classical l is a different discipline and is not about self composition although it is about interpretation.[/quote]

You can teach the style of rock but not the magic ingredient. Sure there are classical players that can rock with the best of them Im not saying that but if you cant rock you cant rock. Its just the way it is, People that have been taught to rock think they can but the truth is they would of been able to anyway IMO the teaching just sped up the process.

[sambassman]

[quote name='skej21' post='989688' date='Oct 15 2010, 09:42 PM']From what I remember this is incorrect. A lot of people from my college studied at LCM and the entry requirements were simply based on passing a basic audition (which one of my friends did quite badly with, messed up the sightreading and failed the grade 5 standard theory test but still "passed" the audition) and then once the audition was passed, prospective students simply had to get 3 Cs at A-Level (or BTEC - Merit, Merit, Merit) to be allowed onto the course.

Pretty easy requirements to meet in my opinion.[/quote]


is that the popular music course?

[bassace]

I expect Yehudi was easily grade 8, yet when he played 'jazz' alongside Grapelli he was - well, not very good. I wouldn't book him. It's horses for courses and I suspect that a lot of graduates haven't had too much time between the shafts. Most improve but some take longer than others.

And don't get me started on NYJO.

[ironside1966]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='990216' date='Oct 16 2010, 02:10 PM']You can teach the style of rock but not the magic ingredient. Sure there are classical players that can rock with the best of them Im not saying that but if you cant rock you cant rock. Its just the way it is, People that have been taught to rock think they can but the truth is they would of been able to anyway IMO the teaching just sped up the process.[/quote]

I think you are half right you can teach rock if you have a good understanding of the style or the student is capable of working the style out on their own. Where I agree is that it takes more than playing the notes from a written part and text in a book, this is also true for many styles.

[TimR]

It's all about being immersed in a style of music.

Eg. If you've spent all your life listening to rock but never listened to regae then you're going to struggle and vice-versa.

To play a style convincingly you need to be conversant with the relevant nuances and this will probably mean listenenig and playing to hours of different examples.

You could probably fake your way through one or two rock songs but gig after gig and picking up new tunes quickly?

Doesn't this come down to the old 'feel' argument?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='TimR' post='990520' date='Oct 16 2010, 07:28 PM']It's all about being immersed in a style of music.

Eg. If you've spent all your life listening to rock but never listened to regae then you're going to struggle and vice-versa.

To play a style convincingly you need to be conversant with the relevant nuances and this will probably mean listenenig and playing to hours of different examples.

You could probably fake your way through one or two rock songs but gig after gig and picking up new tunes quickly?

Doesn't this come down to the old 'feel' argument?[/quote]
I don't believe there's any genre of music that can't be taught/learnt but, as you say, it requires knowledge and experience and practice in the genre.

[gjones]

[quote name='4 candles' post='988463' date='Oct 14 2010, 09:42 PM']Leeds coolege of music

You are a f***ing discrace, your graduates are a discrace

anyone who has a degee from leeds, please burn it!!!

Any aspiring musicians out there, Dont go to leeds. Get a well paid job, some occasional lessons from a good guy on basschat, learn loads of tunes, and keep busy

Regards

Mark[/quote]

Peter Sklaroff was, until very recently, head of jazz at Leeds College of Music and when I knew him 20 years ago could play a mean mustang sally.....hopefully he still can. I'm sure he'd be very interested in your opinion [url="http://www.myspace.com/petesklaroff"]http://www.myspace.com/petesklaroff[/url]