That piano player's left hand

[essexbasscat]

What never fails to surprise me is the collossal scope for things to not work 'quite right' in band situations.

We've all done the loud guitarist to death, buried him and dug him up once more to have another go at him for being TOO BLOODY LOUD.

Then there's the drummers that are too loud, or speed up, or slow down through songs.

Last night threw up what's becoming a more commen occurance recently. It's the piano player's left hand. From the outside looking in, it seems that a lot of piano players spend time practicing the bass line with the left hand, while doing accompaniment with the right hand. All well and good.

However, the last few bods that have played piano in the little ensemble I inhabit can't turn off the bass line on their left hand and turn it to doing appropriate accompaniment to the circumstances i.e. something other than doubling up the bass line when you're in a four or five piece band.

Not only is doubling up a waste, it also makes the lower frequencies sound muddy due to two instruments playing very similar lines, but with different emphasese or slightly different rhythms

Has anyone else come across this one ? how do you solve it ? nail a piece of MDF across the Western side of the keyboard ?

Cheers

T

Edited October 15, 2010 by essexbasscat

[TimR]

Yes. Big common problem.

Get them to play pad chords or work with them to come up with something that works.

Most keyboad/piano players are clasically trained and used to playing two parts.

Less is more.

Edited October 15, 2010 by TimR

[Cat Burrito]

I had it happen a couple of times back in the late 90s, raised the issue & the parts were changed. I was amazed nobody else in the band picked up on it because we were really clashing

[essexbasscat]

Yes, less can definately be more. When I discussed this with a keyboard player, they asked "What do I do with my left hand then" ?

Seems the concept of allowing a song to breath didn't occur then. Once again, frightened of silence.

This definately isn't a problem across the board (!) with piano or keyboard players, but it seems to be happening more recently, enough to notice anyway.

T

[TimR]

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='989754' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:41 PM']I had it happen a couple of times back in the late 90s, raised the issue & the parts were changed. I was amazed nobody else in the band picked up on it because we were really clashing[/quote]

I sometimes get the feeling that the bass player is the only one who listenes to the whole band. Everyone else seems to listen for cues but doesn't listen to how their contribution is fitting in.

[risingson]

I have a good laugh with our keyboard player at me being able to stuff on regular bass that he just can't replicate in his left hand, and vice versa as well. He's probably the best musician I'll ever meet and has a good idea of whether or not he's intruding into my sonic real-estate. It's all about give and take.

[Happy Jack]

This subject is too painful for me to post on.

I'm not kidding.

[chris_b]

I play with several keyboard players and they are very good at keeping out of my way, except 1! He doesn't play many bass lines but even 1 note muddies up the bass because of the tone. It's right down there interfering with me.

I have spoken to him about it and he's ok for 1 gig, and then starts slipping back. He's a nice guy and we don't argue, but I don't understand why he never knows there is a problem!!

[simon1964]

[quote name='TimR' post='989770' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:48 PM']I sometimes get the feeling that the bass player is the only one who listenes to the whole band. Everyone else seems to listen for cues but doesn't listen to how their contribution is fitting in.[/quote]

+1. Although our guitarist seems to interpret listening to the whole band as meaning everyone else listening to him.

[chris_b]

[quote name='TimR' post='989770' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:48 PM']....I sometimes get the feeling that the bass player is the only one who listenes to the whole band. Everyone else seems to listen for cues but doesn't listen to how their contribution is fitting in....[/quote]
That is so true!

[JTUK]

yep... pet hate.

I want him to play a piano part, but they really have to stay out of my space.
It really pisses me off that I try and make the song move and am pretty precise with my line and I have this LH is the way.

I don't like oblivious people with no ears

[skej21]

[quote name='JTUK' post='989808' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:30 PM']I don't like oblivious people with no ears[/quote]

Nevermind oblivious ears... people who are oblivious to the very obvious "you're playing in my space AGAIN!" death stare! When will they take the bloody hint!

[gelfin]

Fortunately I have control over the mix. When we use a key board player I Knock out the the keys lower frequencies. This seems to work for all the others.
Key player doesn't know.

Strangely enough I can't get the guitarist to play loud enough!!!!!

Maybe bass players listen to the overall sound because we are unselfish and want the song to speak for itself?

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' post='989798' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:22 PM']I play with several keyboard players and they are very good at keeping out of my way, except 1! He doesn't play many bass lines but even 1 note muddies up the bass because of the tone. It's right down there interfering with me.

I have spoken to him about it and he's ok for 1 gig, and then starts slipping back. He's a nice guy and we don't argue, but I don't understand why he never knows there is a problem!![/quote]

so true......
they are made aware of the problem..and then at some point, they forget all about it and start up again.

They have free reign to do as they want...and seem to gravitate to towards a bassline.
I blame gtrs...


as they are the most guilty for stepping on other peoples parts..that this leaves the keys nowhere else to go, so they want to
try out low notes..
Funnily enough, the gtr is good as adapting his sound to keep out of my way, but will stomp all over the keyb parts...and round we go.

Fix it for a few dates and then it is back again.
We have dropped songs because of this...and it was one of our better ones.

[JTUK]

oh no..you got me started now..

The song is not working...too many parts fighting for space..so we strip it down and get the bass and drums working... feels good and we let the others at it...train wreck, so we spell it out. Play another part, nice piano chords or something but don't play low notes across my line..and unless you are doing exactly the same which they don't or can't hear it that way...don't even attempt to put your spin on my line...

But it keeps creeping back..

And of course, they can't hear it whilst I am pulling my hair out.

[essexbasscat]

Arrangement, arrangement, arrangement.

Yet so many samll guitar and keyboard bands seem to resist it. It's almost as though the idea of playing to an arrangement somehow compromises people's freedom of expression.

Or is it the freedom to avoid the work of actually playing with other band members, instead of playing to them.

T

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='JTUK' post='989828' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:43 PM']oh no..you got me started now..

The song is not working...too many parts fighting for space..so we strip it down and get the bass and drums working... feels good and we let the others at it...train wreck, so we spell it out. Play another part, nice piano chords or something but don't play low notes across my line..and unless you are doing exactly the same which they don't or can't hear it that way...don't even attempt to put your spin on my line...

But it keeps creeping back..

And of course, they can't hear it whilst I am pulling my hair out.[/quote]


Sounds like we've been in the same band

T

[pietruszka]

I agree with the majority here. Massive problem.

I was in a function band and we were doing 'Hit Me'. The keys player wasn't playing anything right and played right in the lower register. I just stopped playing.

We solved the problem rather quickly. We got rid of him!

In my experience, keys players over play to the point of despair.



Dan

[JTUK]

to be fair it is only really the one number that really needs a rethink..Heroes:Bowie, but this can get so messy if the keyboards go anywhere near the line. But they listen to the track and think ...ahhh...there is keys down there, I'll play that

But it doesn't work live like that for us...

I'll give it one more rehearsal otherwise I'll refuse to play it.

[essexbasscat]

Also played with a guitarist recently that would play the bassline on his guitar if he couldn't think of a guitar part to play

Steady now.....

T

[JTUK]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='989842' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:55 PM']Also played with a guitarist recently that would play the bassline on his guitar if he couldn't think of a guitar part to play

Steady now.....

T[/quote]


now now...that is just plain provocative
it is funny that they don't understand the concept of 'don't play'

I reckon it wouldn't be that much of a problem to do a few parts with another bass player but give that to some gtrs and keys..????

It is true that some people just don't REALLY listen.
I couldn't tell you what the words are..but I know who is playing what

[Maverick]

Or are your bass lines walking all over the keys/piano player's left hand parts?

[/devilsadvocate]

Edited October 15, 2010 by Maverick

[simon1964]

[quote name='gelfin' post='989816' date='Oct 15 2010, 11:35 PM']Maybe bass players listen to the overall sound because we are unselfish and want the song to speak for itself?[/quote]

Agreed. Cliche time, but i think drummers and bassists listen to the song.

Keyboard players tend to be trained to play solo, and listen to what they play, but nothing else.

And guitarists are walking egos who only listen to the guitar solos (and are astonished that anyone else would listen to anything other than the guitar solos).

[thisnameistaken]

Our keys player also plays trumpet, and I think when she is on keys she likes to play lower notes. I have told her to shift stuff up an octave before now - partly because we already had a trombonist occupying that tenor area anyway - but mostly because all the interesting sh*t in our band happens on my bass guitar and she was making it sound untidy!

[lojo]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='989738' date='Oct 15 2010, 10:33 PM']What never fails to surprise me is the collossal scope for things to not work 'quite right' in band situations.

We've all done the loud guitarist to death, buried him and dug him up once more to have another go at him for being TOO BLOODY LOUD.

Then there's the drummers that are too loud, or speed up, or slow down through songs.

Last night threw up what's becoming a more commen occurance recently. It's the piano player's left hand[/quote]

Yes, it appears that everyone apart us bass players wants to mess up the sound and the timing, their lucky they have got us

The left hand can be an issue, our guy is used to solo piano gigs in restaurants so to be fair, its hard to then come off the left hand

What gets me more though, is when a keyboard sound is being used, and its not been selected correctly and ends up being cabaret rather than cool sounding

Edited October 16, 2010 by lojo