Providing a bass amp for other bands

[Bidd]

I know there's a similar thread about amp sharing, but this is a slightly different situation. Basically my band are playing in Manchester tonight (Copper Face Jacks if anyone is interested? - shameless plug) and its an unsigned "festival" night so there 7 bands on. Usually the headline provides drum shell and bass amp, but the two bands after us both cannot provide bass amps for different reasons (one had their amp break yesterday, one is a foreign band who have no bass amp with them), so I've been asked to provide one.

I was asked last night whilst I was working by my guitarist who was asked by the promoter, and as I was busy and appreciated that a quick answer was needed I agreed, but thinking about it, why? On the plus side, I don't want to hinder the gig, and it keeps the promoter happy, but there are far too many negatives.

I've spoke to the promoter and apparently he won't claim liability for damage caused by any other bands (or the venue staff) and I imagine the band's themselves won't unless its obviously their fault (even then, they might be dicks about it). Also I have to wait around for 2 hours after my gig so I can collect it, and have to get their early so the opening band can get set up. This wouldn't usually bother me but what do I get out it? Nothing. The promoter didn't even said thank you on the phone. I totally understand why a bass amp is to be shared, as a quick changeover is needed, less work for soundguy etc etc, but personally I believe the promoter should rent one at his own expense if sharing is to happen.

What I will do though is give the soundguy some strict rules (obvious ones like no drinks on amp etc) to relay to the other bassists in hope that they will treat it like their own. I do mostly trust other bass players but at unsigned gigs you tend to get younger inexperienced players who are not entirely sure how an amp works, or that they are using another person's amp rather than a hired one or the house one.

Has anyone else ever had this type of issue?

[munkonthehill]

I think you nailed it by saying the promoter should hire one,,,,im sure this guy is making more money than all the bands. Why shouldnt he hire a rig,,,or even better yet, hire yours if you want to do it, plus with a nice tasty deposit. All of which is paid before you set your gear up.

what kinda rig will you use? what age is it?

No way in hell would I be the one supplying any of my ampeg gear, I have all my stuff in pristine condition and I intend to keep it that way. Its just sheer cheek that this promoter Knob expects it to be ok, plus not even saying thank you, thats the nail in the coffin for me. Advise him your rig is not for the whole of Manchesters music scenes workhorse. You spend too much money on your gear just to have some yahoo treat it with the same respect as a 2dollar whore.

[CHRISDABASS]

Hey

Yeah, i've had this a few times before

it puts you in a very awkward position doesn't it!

When i had my expensive amps (mesa, ampeg etc) i often said no due to one pretty big american band blowing my mesa head up!!

it still bugs me today when i get asked but not as much as im using much cheaper gear these days and im fully insured

i feel promoters should be more organised and just hire something!

Also i never understand bands who dont have their own gear!!?? what would happen if we all thought that way and nobody brought anything to the gig???

[warwickhunt]

At this late stage it's probably too late for you to back out of the lend... but I'm different and if it was me I'd be saying 'cufk it' and let the promoter sort out an amp!

I can appreciate that people like to help others out but a shared rig is a fundamental [u]must have[/u] if it is that many bands and especially as the bands don't know each other. If I was on a shared billing with a band I knew and I could trust the bassist then I'd probably come to an agreement; otherwise no would do.

[throwoff]

I don't lend to other bands unless they are personal friends of mine.

In fact I would be more than happy to let a friend take my amp for a gig that I wasn't even playing at if they needed it.

But nope, I don't lend gear at all other than that.

[Rosh]

Exactly the same thing happened to me in Manc...

We were on second (out of four) and the third band had theirs break the week before and the headliners were from London... It sounds familiar.

I really didn't want to do it but we were contacted the night before the gig and it was basically off if I didn't provide for free...


It's not Vman productions is it?

[markstuk]

I'd be tempted to have my amp break down (remove one of the internal fuses) and pass the problem back to the promoter.. You can always get it "fixed" urgently if the promoter is so desperate he's willing to pay an extortionate emergency repair fee...

[PaulWarning]

similar thing happened to me, except it was after we'd done our slot, I was asked if the main band could borrow my amp, sorry I said I've got to go, the main band just had to go through the PA.
So if you decide you don't want to do it just say your cat's ill or something and you've got to go, If anybody lends out gear it should be the last band

[oldslapper]

Don't offer gear...end of.
Had 2 bad recent experiences of other bands using my gear:

1) We were headlining and I offered the rest of the other bass players my rig, to save set up time/blah/blah. Both bass players were very happy to do so. I went through the whole Input/Master volume control thing and "no drinks on my amp or I will kill you" lecture.

First bassist was fine, so I went off for a drink and a bite to eat, 2nd hadn't listened at all and complained to me after that the bass fed back, distortion, blah and turns out he had set input to 2 and master to full.

2) Set up my rig, went off for drinks whilst support band were playing (bass player had his own rig). Came back to find both my cabs removed from original position, separately propping up the guitarist and keyboard players back line.

Promoters:

1) Got to a small gig recently and the "promoter" hadn't provided any PA. His excuse was he saw us at a festival and thought we provided our own PA for the festival as we were headlining....this guy has apparently organised loads of gigs locally.
2) Played my last gig and was told not to bring any back line as the promoter was providing it. It was a crap underpowered combo and the other bands had brought their own (obviously knew something).

I am retiring from electric bass gigging at the end of this year, I am too old to be dealing with a constant stream of knobs.

Double bass/PJ combo/small gigs.....that's the way to go, I can just enjoy playing music.

[Rich]

[quote name='Bidd' post='990055' date='Oct 16 2010, 11:43 AM']I've spoke to the promoter and apparently he won't claim liability for damage caused by any other bands (or the venue staff)...
Also I have to wait around for 2 hours after my gig so I can collect it, and have to get their early so the opening band can get set up...
The promoter didn't even said thank you on the phone.[/quote]
For these three reasons alone -- and especially the first -- absolutely not. The promoter can hire one, or he can guarantee indemnity, or he can do a running jump.
Have you tried the old "you can use my amp if I can use your girlfriend/wife/daughter" line on him?

[quote name='munkonthehill' post='990061' date='Oct 16 2010, 11:52 AM']I think you nailed it by saying the promoter should hire one,,,,im sure this guy is making [b]twice as much money as all the bands put together[/b].[/quote]
Fixed for probable accuracy

[Sweeneythebass]

This is one of the biggest headaches playing on the unsigned circuit, I've been asked on many occassions to provide an Amp and mostly I've said yes. Here are my biggest complaints tho

1. Waiting. Having to wait till the end of the night if not headlining (sometimes not a problem, but if you have to start work at 6 the next morning or the last couple of bands are shall we say "not to my taste" this can be painful.

2. Driving. I dont have to drive if I dont bring an amp. No parking stress, no traffic stress, no congestion charge (if its in the west end) no parking fees. If i do drive any post gig drinks are limited to " erm...I 'll have an orange juice and lemonade. Or a shandy?" Followed by giggles and and strange looks at some venues.

3. Idiots. People with no respect for your gear. I recently did a gig and during soundcheck the rather large beast of a bass player from another band decided to park his kilometer wide rear end on top of my amp.

4. Unnecesarily early soundchecks. Having to rush around like a maniac to get to a soundcheck at 4.45pm so another band gets to use my amp and then...more...waiting.....

The upside to bring your own amp is its easier to get your own sound right. I've played through some amps I've ahted and had some unfulfilling sets as a result.

Yes promoters should hire gear if there are lots of acts and its a showcase/unsigned band type night. This will never happen. Promoters for these type of gigs in my expereince do very little to actually promote any of the bands playing or even the night itself and will do whateva to make a profit. Some nights in London are pay to play night i.e bring x number of people or you give us £££££!!!

When I buy my next rig no more lending and breaking my back for nothing!

[Stingray5]

For most of the reasons stated above I also am not in the habit of sharing gear though have done in the past on one or two occasions where I've known the other bands and the whole situation is trustworthy enough.
To the OP - if you're committed and feel honour-bound to share your rig then, if possible, I'd advise you to keep an eye on it as much as you can throughout the gig. You don't need an over-enthusiastic bassist to decide mid-set to just whack everything on '10' (...hell, it's not their amp is it!?).

[Truckstop]

I'd get in contact with the other 6 bands and ask them for a score each. f*** 'em. They should have their own gear.
The worst types though are the promoters that don't even bother organising gear at all. You turn up with all of your stuff and then the guys from the other bands ask you to borrow your stuff literally half an hour before they're due to go on.
I say "Money talks, mate". If they don't cough up... sorry, you should've arranged something beforehand with the other bands or with the promoter. Only a bloody moron would turn up at a gig without organising backline.

Truckstop.

[thisnameistaken]

So the promoter doesn't want to rent an amp but he also doesn't think he should be liable for any damage to your amp? Tell him to get stuffed.

It's his gig, he needs to make sure he has the equipment needed to put on the bands. If other bands can't/won't show up with enough backline then that's their problem and his problem, not yours. Tell him to get stuffed again.

[JTUK]

Got to agree.

I'd say no..and pull the gig for the band if need be. This is too last minute to be plausible to me.
It is bad enough you are playing for ex's without underpinning the profit of the gig.

His deal, his problem. And to compound it, you have to stay late, drive, park, hump and run the risk of even more financial expense all for ...err..what..??

What is in it for bands that go for this set-up..?
When I was just starting we went through degrees of this but never SO one-sided, IMO.
We always got petrol money into London if not much else.

[Meenie]

At the moment my take on the lend situation is this,

Yes you can use my cab but not my head, end of conversation.

If they abuse your stuff, you abuse them!



Soon i am to be the proud owner of a Barefaced cab with a poweramp rack mount arrangement, as far as im concerned as soon as it all arrives it will be the end of my lending days.

I will be using my stuff exlusively and all the time reguardless of whinging promoters/other bassists.

You've got to look after yourself and your gear, other bands will take advantage of you if you let them,this is an unfortunate fact of life.
Some of the nicest people i know can and have been very disrespectful of other peoples equiptment, in the heat of battle with all the adrenaline of the gig pumping around things just tend to happen.
You can avoid your stuff getting stood/sat/jumped on/off of by not lending it.

I might be coming across as a bit of a dick about all this but it is possible to say no to people without offending them, you just have to be polite, its not rocket science.

[Bidd]

[quote]It's not Vman productions is it?[/quote]

Funningly enough, it specifically isn't Vman, but this promoter used to be/worked for Vman.

If you hadn't guessed, the gear I'm using is the one in my sig, an Ashdown combo and extension cab. I've wanted to buy an expensive decent rig for a while now but on the unsigned circuit, you use the headliner amp if you're not headlining, or have to let everyone else use yours if you are, which I would not do with a more expensive amp. Therefore I don't see the point.

The problem with promoters is the leverage they have these days. There's so many "bands" now, and even if they sound crap, if they've got 100 friends willing to watch them at every gig, a promoter will book them. If I try to demand a deposit/payment for hire, no matter how reasonable it is, it will probably end up badly as they will then ask the next band etc etc, and my band will gain a bad reputation for being "uncooperative"

Also, after reading other posts I've realised I may be a bit of a hypocrit. As said previously, these gigs usually have only the headliner band bringing an amp, so I've turned up (at the promoter's instructions) not to bring an amp if we're not headlining, and expect to use someone else's amp. If the headliner band did not want to share there amp, I would have no issues whatsoever bringing my own (but I imagine the soundguy would get annoyed). Also if I use someone else's amp, I try my best to find them at soundcheck, double check with them, and get them a drink.

[Cat Burrito]

I have two rigs. If I am not sharing I take my vintage 70s valve amp and if I am sharing I take an old 90s solid state head instead. It is a pain and I agree with Monkonthehill that these promoters usually do pretty well out of such things. I'm happier lending cabs then heads. Most bands we play with are country / folk so they don't drive the amps as hard as when I was in my punk days. I think if I still played punk I would be a lot less likely to share

[pietruszka]

I absolutely do not share gear. End of.


Theres far too many bass players out there who don't know what they're doing.

If asked, I tell them straight out, I don't share my gear, simply due to the cost.

If the promotor is adamant I have to share, I ask for a 100% deposit. Its my tool kit as a musician and cant risk it getting damaged.



Dan.

[Bidd]

Thanks for everyone's views - it makes me feel more comfortable knowing that a lot of you not only feel the same, but are prepared to say no outright.

Anyway, my amp seems to be fine, but somehow my kettle lead has been misplaced through the night - great. The soundguy had no idea so I presume that some f***er (sorry for language but I'm tired and angry) has nicked it. So now I'll need to buy another one (I havea couple of spares lying around the house but they're not very long).

What annoys me the most however is that I've basically provided a service and equipment, and not even received a simple thankyou.

That's the last time I'm ever amp sharing at a promoters' request (unless I'm in the headline band, then I'll expect a deposit)

Rant over, goodnight y'all

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='Bidd' post='990826' date='Oct 17 2010, 01:53 AM']Thanks for everyone's views - it makes me feel more comfortable knowing that a lot of you not only feel the same, but are prepared to say no outright.

Anyway, my amp seems to be fine, but somehow my kettle lead has been misplaced through the night - great. The soundguy had no idea so I presume that some f***er (sorry for language but I'm tired and angry) has nicked it. So now I'll need to buy another one (I havea couple of spares lying around the house but they're not very long).

What annoys me the most however is that I've basically provided a service and equipment, and not even received a simple thankyou.

That's the last time I'm ever amp sharing at a promoters' request (unless I'm in the headline band, then I'll expect a deposit)

Rant over, goodnight y'all[/quote]

if nothing else,, its a lesson learned brother.

Its true what they say,,,,good guys finish last.

[tauzero]

I am generally happy to share gear. I try to avoid buying fragile amps like Ampegs (these seem to be the most cited in threads about some other bassist blowing up one's rig). I lime to think that if a promoter says that I can borrow someone else's amp that that is actually true, though I do tend to stick my amp (not my cab) into the car so I can use it just in case. Generally just saying that you've got your own amp with you is sufficient for a fellow bassist to tell you that it won't be necessary. And if someone else was using my gear, I would expect them to treat it properly - any perching of beer on top of it would be immediately corrected...

[munkonthehill]

[quote name='tauzero' post='990835' date='Oct 17 2010, 02:43 AM']I am generally happy to share gear. I try to avoid buying fragile amps like Ampegs[/quote]


Ampeg!! when theres a nuclear fallout, only cockroaches and ampeg will roam the land my friend!!

[JTUK]

Not sure I agree about Ampegs (All valve) being fragile as such, but they do have a disctinct startup and shutdown process as is the nature of valves, so for me, I wouldn't be lending one to someone on these share type gigs...even if I got involved in gigs like this which I wouldn't on anything like those terms.

But....
From reading all this..I'd be inclined to take the role of promoter and do them myself if that was the only type of gig I could get..or find a friendly landlord, tell him you will fill up his pub..provided you are good to your word.. and cut your own deal.

A landlord needs a full house and a turnover of beer to make his evening and business viable and that is all he is trying to do with covers bands..they tout themselves as capable of filling his pub, get £200-300 for covering 2 hrs of music and the system works.
I'd do an Indie night..for want of a better word.. get 3 bands in...get them all to bring and commit to bringing 20 people per band..and if gigs are local and scarce, that shouldn't be too hard..a few flyers around collegue etc etc ..and the avergae pub is pretty much full anyway.
Do the first gig as a loss leader..and say ask for £150 plus a bonus to be sorted after the gig on the night, and split the take 3 ways...and if everyone pulls their weight keep the bill onside and repeat.

Bare in mind the whole deal is about business and profit for the landlord/venue with you on a cut, so don't bull*** a bullsh**** and work it.

Leave this alone if you can't hack it..but it is easy money and gigs, if you can..why do you think promoters are doing it? ...it is the same thing..you have just taken out the middle man..ie, HIM.!!

[TimR]

[quote name='tauzero' post='990835' date='Oct 17 2010, 02:43 AM'].....any perching of beer on top of it would be immediately corrected...[/quote]

I played with a drummer who did this. Once. I put his beer on his floor tom. He got the message.