low tuning, finger playing, flapping strings, thumb rest?

[Chest Rockwell]

Hallo,

I know most people root their thumb on a pickup to play the bottom string, but Im having something of an issue with this due to a few factors... we tune to B and my strings are thick heavy gauge, so they can flap about a bit... there was too much volume on my B string (that would normally be an E string) so i screwed the pickup down into the bass... this has balanced the string volume, but when playing boisterously, there's not enough exposed pickup to rest on it! So i end up with some weird floating thumb and it's not a confident position to be in.

I'm thinking of buying a simply thumb rest, finding a suitable position (probably at the top of a triangle between the pickup and the end of the neck), where I can sit and smash through heavy riffing on the B (E!) without losing power cos my thumb/hand isnt locked in.

anyone got any thoughts on this or experienced a similar thing?

p.s. this is my Geddy Jazz. it has a great boom for this Sabbathy kinda music! I tried a Fender P Highway One and the bass disappeared(!), so that's now gonna be a standard tuning home practice bass!

[Delberthot]

how about a ramp in between the pickups set at the height you need?

[Wil]

Instead of lowering your pickups, why not try raising your action? I can't abide a low action, far too little tension on the B string for my heavy right hand technique.

[Simon.]

Am I right in thinking that you tuned your E string down to B? Why not buy a single B string from a 5-string set and swap that out with the existing E string? At least then you would have a string which is designing to give you the frequencies you want at a reasonable tension.

If it's the whole bass that's tuned down, then you could put on the B string and shift the other strings over, ie: E->A, A->G, D->G, G falls off the end. so the tuning becomes BEAD. I'm sure there others on here more knowledgeable than me who could give you the necessary info about neck tension and truss rod adjustments to cope.

[El Bajo]

String it with a B string?

[Mr. Foxen]

Shim the neck, so you can raise the bridge without changing your action.

[Chest Rockwell]

the tuning is B F# B E, basically C# standard but the C# dropped to B. so they're all low. I dont think a B from a 5 string would make much difference. I got a set of Heavy strings that I cant seem to find online but my email confirmation tells me they're 'Bass Boomers Nickel Plated 50-115 Heavy' and the 115 I could barely get through the BadassII bridge! not to mention the fact that if I use a plec and hit the E string hard, it pops off the nut!! finger style doesnt seem to have that issue

this is all a learning curve for me. I never thought about any of this stuff before but now I can see where Im going and want to tweak a bass I really like a little more so that it can help me.

hmm. didnt really know what a ramp was but think it might not be my style! looks too 'pro musican' for me I could higher the action a little maybe, it's possible i've been overzealous dropping the pickup, maybe the solution is there, which would make it a lot easier! trouble is that we do a few things around the 12th fret and beyond on the E string and I dont really want to fight it... cos i also play pretty low slung and reaching down there isnt easy!

style vs substance eh

Edited October 18, 2010 by Chest Rockwell

[bartelby]

Buy a 35" scale length 4 string, like one of the Ibanez BTBs
Though a thumb rest type thing would probably be cheaper

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='992530' date='Oct 18 2010, 05:56 PM']the tuning is B F# B E, basically C# standard but the C# dropped to B. so they're all low. I dont think a B from a 5 string would make much difference. I got a set of Heavy strings that I cant seem to find online but my email confirmation tells me they're 'Bass Boomers Nickel Plated 50-115 Heavy' and the 115 I could barely get through the BadassII bridge! not to mention the fact that if I use a plec and hit the E string hard, it pops off the nut!! finger style doesnt seem to have that issue[/quote]

These are simple issues to fix. You need to file the nut slightly to allow a bigger string to fit. You should be able to get a bigger string through a badass bridge. The heavier ones are usually taperwound so you can get the first bit in easier.

[Doddy]

[quote name='Wil' post='992324' date='Oct 18 2010, 03:41 PM']Instead of lowering your pickups, why not try raising your action? I can't abide a low action, far too little tension on the B string for my heavy right hand technique.[/quote]

The height of the string has no bearing on its tension.

[quote name='Chest Rockwell' post='992530' date='Oct 18 2010, 05:56 PM']hmm. didnt really know what a ramp was but think it might not be my style! looks too 'pro musican' for me I could higher the action a little maybe, it's possible i've been overzealous dropping the pickup, maybe the solution is there, which would make it a lot easier! trouble is that we do a few things around the 12th fret and beyond on the E string and I dont really want to fight it... cos i also play pretty low slung and reaching down there isnt easy!

style vs substance eh [/quote]

What you really need is to use the bottom 4 strings of a 5 string set-It'll work better for the low tuning. Also,you will need to make the nut
slots a little wider to accommodate the thicker strings-That's why your strings pop out of the nut.

Don't worry about looking 'too pro musician',as it's obviously much cooler to be struggling and 'amateur'.

[Wil]

[quote name='Doddy' post='992554' date='Oct 18 2010, 06:12 PM']The height of the string has no bearing on its tension.[/quote]

I realise this is technically correct, but it does [i]feel[/i] stiffer on fretted notes, no idea why. Certainly gives more room for the strings to flop about at any rate, which is a boon in low tunings if you want to avoid clack.

Sounds to me though like using a proper B string (.125 guage for instance) would help.

[lowdown]

Why not just use a five string? BEADG
Then you can rest you thumb on the wider pup...



Garry

Edited October 18, 2010 by lowdown

[Chest Rockwell]

looks like there's a groundswell of feeling in favour of using the pickup as a thumb rest? I really dont need or want a 5 string. even though it's low tuning, i feel happy with a 4. what's good enough for Lemmy is good enough for me!

im sure in time though i'll discover 5 string joy, but fer now I think i'll for a ten quid thumb rest! (tho i will try and up the pickup to a usable height)

[Jerry_B]

It may be simpler all round just to learn to play without feeling the need to use a thumb rest? It's doable!

[Wil]

I think there's a groundswell of feeling that you should use the bottom 4 strings from a 5 string set - all you need to do is file the nut a touch and give it a setup, and you'll be away. I use a 4 string strung BEAD on occasion and it works a bloody treat.

[gelfin]

[quote name='Wil' post='992766' date='Oct 18 2010, 09:07 PM']I think there's a groundswell of feeling that you should use the bottom 4 strings from a 5 string set - all you need to do is file the nut a touch and give it a setup, and you'll be away. I use a 4 string strung BEAD on occasion and it works a bloody treat.[/quote]

I have done this just a few days ago as an experiment. Totally love it. Did it on an old Westone. Now thinking which of my main basses to do it on.

[retroman]

As Mr Foxen suggested, shim the neck to give a bit more neck angle, then raise the bridge saddles, and reset intonation.

I went through a similar thing trying to get an old P bass tuned down to low A! Had to shim the neck, move the bridge back a little to get the intonation right, and re file the nut slots to suite the heavier strings. Still managed to have it playing with a medium to low action at the end, but needed a few truss rod tweaks.

For strings, Give DR DDT's a try. My Les Paul bass is tuned down to C, on a 115 set, and no issues with flapping, or intonation at all. Even the DDT 105 set will handle low C, although if you play hard, the 105 set can get a little flappy.

[Bottle]

As an experiment, de-tuned my Squier P-special by taking off the standard 4-string set and whacking on the bottom four strings from a 5-string set, filed the nut and adjusted the truss rod. Took about an hour all-told, including tuning and intonation. Just for sh*ts-n-giggles, de-tuned down to a low A (ADGC) - works reasonably well.

Can't see a problem with using maybe a decent B-string (around 0.125 - 0.135 gauge), and leaving the rest as-is. Maybe look at some heavier strings for the F#, high B and E, will help keep the tension fairly even. Three semi-tones is quite a drop for most standard strings.

HTH, Ian

[Dood]

I fitted a thumb rest to a P bass once, where a bridge pickup *would* have been, so I had something to anchor on to with my thumb. If you don't mind two screw holes in the body - then it's a really cheap option, because they are only a couple of quid from most outlets. I've seen some different shaped ones too. You could even make your own one out of a piece of wood and colour it to match the bass?

[chris_b]

You need a 5 string bass. It'll fix all your issues.

[Dave Vader]

Put your thumb on the pickguard.

[Chest Rockwell]

maybe I'll tie some elastic round the bass and my thumb so it can 'float'.

(but thanks y'all)

[Truckstop]

+1 for just buying a thumbrest.
I wouldn't change the set up of your bass when you already got a good sound out of it. There's no need to over-complicate things.

Truckstop

[Jerry_B]

Like I said, I just reckon it takes a bit of getting used to. Awhile back I split the end of my thumb, so couldn't rest it on the pickup. So I didn't have any option for quite a while but to try to play without resting on it. It's a bit of an odd feeling, but I found that the heel of my thumb got used to taking the weight instead. I actually now think it makes my playing a bit more flexible, but that's just me.

[Chest Rockwell]

yep, i appreciate all the suggestions, but the thought of taking a hammer and chisel to my bass just to fix a simple problem scares the hell out of me! and since i just bought a Fender P for normal tuning practice, im not in the money to splash out on a five, though that'd be a nice luxury to play with. one day. im not completely out of sorts with a floating hand as-it-were, just that a ten quid thumb rest still seems to be a nice little luxury, if i can just practice not wrecking my Geddy before I put it on. I have an old bass i'll use to get the position I think... then get the drill out!!!