The JJ burnel sound (early Stranglers)

[daz]

JJ Burnell was the first bass player whom i ever actually [i]noticed[/i] on a record, that record was of course [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaches_(The_Stranglers_song)"]Peaches[/url] i first heard it in the summer of '77 whilst i was digging the garden of my mates Gran on a scorching hot afternoon.(yes it was so pivotal I remember all the details) Needless to say i actually bought it. Untill then my only purchases had been 2 T Rex singles (45p from WH Smiths), Ride a White Swan, Sladest and one of those Top of the Pops albums you used to get. So this was obviously something different. That dirty heavy bas sound attracted me straight away. Peaches and its B side [i]Go Buddy Go[/i], were the back of the bus singalongs of that summer. It was a double A side (remember the concept of Sides!?) and the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pub_rock"]Pub Rocky [/url] sounding flip side of 'Go Buddy Go' was often played on the radio in the daytime, where the risque double entendré ridden Peaches would not have got a look in. So a clever bit of marketting there from UA.
No. [i]Radio 1[/i] were not that daring in the daytime back then. The Stranglers made a clean version for radio

There has been lots of discussion over the years as to how John gets (got) his sound. I am talking over the first 3 albums here. ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattus_Norvegicus_(album)"]Rattus Norvegicus [/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%20No_More_Heroes_(album)"] No more Heros - [/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%20Black_and_White_(The_Stranglers_album)"] - Black & White [/url], )After that he changed rigs and was never the same.

We all know of course he used a Precision Fender with a pick and usually a hard attack. Without and effects and with his amp settings plenty of bass and treble, not too much midrange. The pick was a [i][url="http://www.dv247.com/guitars/gibson-heavy-wedge-pick--51830"]Gibson Heavy [/url][/i]used near the bridge. (funnily enough i bought one last week, without realizing the significance. I found it a tad wide though. I prefer a [url="http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/0438903/details.html"]Dunlop Tortex[size=5]*[/size] 1.14mm [/url])

Amps were a Hi-Watt 200 watt and 8 x 10 Hi-Watt guitar cab ,("the size of a door") which of course gradualy blew its cones one at a time. Later in years he spent a lot of time trying to re create that dirty bass sound. But of course, in the early days he played with whatever he could get his hands on, sadly success bought him out of his own sound through upgrading to a 'proper bass rig' According to Hugh Cornwell he then spent years trying to get back to that original sound.

Anyone with any more info on this please chip in.

[size=5]*[/size]Tortex:
[i]Tortex is a brand created by Jim Dunlop, but tortex picks are made out of a plastic called delrin that was created by DuPont. Dunlop's Tortex and Delrex picks are both made of delrin, but have different surface coatings. It has been influential in replacing tortoiseshell guitar picks after an international ban was placed on the trade of tortoiseshell in the late 1970s. Tortex is registered trademark of Dunlop Manufacturing, Inc.

Tortex picks are used by many guitar players. Tortex is one of the most popular materials for guitar picks[citation needed]. It imitates the texture of a tortoise shell. It has a grippy feel, so players don't drop the pick while playing.[/i]

Edited October 18, 2010 by daz

[lojo]

sorry nothing to add, cept i enjoyed the Purple Helmets also, no nonsense covers with JJ on bass

I got nice n sleazy in the set of 2 bands i played with last year, but both dropped it after a few gigs, seems not as well known as I thought it was

Was fun to play a few times though

[bassatnight]

According to the man himself a broken guitar amp was responsible for the 'unique' sound. The Green Fender P he used is in bits now apparently and although he comes close with effects etc the Green P had a sound all of its own.

[daz]

[quote name='lojo' post='992664' date='Oct 18 2010, 07:48 PM']sorry nothing to add, cept i enjoyed the Purple Helmets also, no nonsense covers with JJ on bass

I got nice n sleazy in the set of 2 bands i played with last year, but both dropped it after a few gigs, seems not as well known as I thought it was

Was fun to play a few times though[/quote]

Why not try 'Walk on by' as a fun alternative?

[Deep Thought]

I have one of the signature picks he uses these days-I was quite surprised how thin and floppy it was-it's one of the equalateral triangle types like guitarists use. I have the impression that the greenburst P is still in existence and has been repaired-Jon Shuker mentions it on his website when describing how he came up with the design for the Shuker JJ, and I read it that the bass is intact and in playable condition.

[steve-soar]

1977.

[daz]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='992789' date='Oct 18 2010, 09:33 PM']1977. [/quote]

Dunno if this is what you meant, but actually that was a typo in my first post i did mean 1977 not '76. I do recall quite clearly though the year before. That very long very hot summer of 1976, where the sun shone from May to September I camped out in tents or just sleeping in the open down the fields in sleeping bags around a camp fire with groups of friends practically every day of the summer holidays that year.

For all you lucky youngsters who were not around then, heres a link about it: [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/features/understanding/1976_drought.shtml"]The long hot summer of 1976 in the UK[/url]

As for the thickness of the old style Gibson Heavy picks i think the gauge was approx 1.18mm

Edited October 18, 2010 by daz

[Bassassin]

[quote name='bassatnight' post='992668' date='Oct 18 2010, 07:51 PM']According to the man himself a broken guitar amp was responsible for the 'unique' sound. The Green Fender P he used is in bits now apparently and although he comes close with effects etc the Green P had a sound all of its own.[/quote]
This is what I read too - apparently a Marshall 4x12 guitar cab with blown speakers was the culprit, certainly on Rattus & Heroes, which were recorded within a couple of months of each other.

Jon.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='lojo' post='992664' date='Oct 18 2010, 07:48 PM']sorry nothing to add, cept i enjoyed the Purple Helmets also, no nonsense covers with JJ on bass

I got nice n sleazy in the set of 2 bands i played with last year, but both dropped it after a few gigs, seems not as well known as I thought it was

Was fun to play a few times though[/quote]

perhaps it would have been more popular if you'd used the strippers on stage like the Stranglers did

On the subject of the early bass sound I also read an interview somewhere with JJ where he said he could never get the same sound once he'd broken the green P in half while punching it during a gig.
Perhaps he did get it repaired but it also repaired the fault thet gave it it's distintive sound?

[Low End Bee]

I'm really surprised Fender haven't cashed in on a greenburst signature. They're normally not shy of chasing a bit of easy lucre like this.

[charic]

Nothing to add except that he's an absolute gem of a guy too

[tino]

[quote name='charic' post='993947' date='Oct 19 2010, 07:08 PM']Nothing to add except that he's an absolute gem of a guy too[/quote]
Then you must be his brother.......Finchley Freedom Fighters 1977 - 1982

[Hobbayne]

I was in a guitar shop a few months ago trying out a Squire P Bass for a friend who wanted to learn how to play, I cranked it up and played the bassline to "Down In The Sewer" pretty soon I had a little crowd of youngsters gathered around muttering something about The Who and John Entwhistles bassline sounded wicked!!

[charic]

[quote name='tino' post='993997' date='Oct 19 2010, 07:40 PM']Then you must be his brother.......Finchley Freedom Fighters 1977 - 1982[/quote]


Sorry I don't follow...

[daz]

[quote name='charic' post='994469' date='Oct 20 2010, 09:29 AM']

Sorry I don't follow...[/quote]

Hmm.? that was a bit of a cryptic one eh ?
maybe it is something to do with this [url="http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/stranglersandthefinchleyboys.htm"]Finchley Boys [/url]

RE: the rig that JJ burnell used in the early days. Here is a direct quote from Hugh in the book [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stranglers-Song-Hugh-Cornwell/dp/1860743625/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1287678007&sr=8-2"]The Stranglers, song by song[/url].

[quote]Jim Dury (interviewer) "Johns rough bass sound seemed to tail off in later years. Why did that happen?"

Hugh Cornwell: "The reason that it occured in the first place was that John has a speaker cabinet about the size of a door. With about 16 ten inch speakers in it, which are a bit small to be taking bass. They all blew one after the other. So he ended up with a huge cabinet with blown speakers, and the sound got dirtier and dirtier, and became a feature of the band. Thats why its mixed so high on the record. Martin Rushent (Producer) said that people liked the sound of the bass."[/quote]

Edited October 22, 2010 by daz

[Spike Vincent]

Hmmmm.My understanding always was the the trademark kit was a kackered 50w HiWatt guitar head,a knackered 2x15 and a knackered Marshall 4x12 with one working speaker. The important bit is of course the mammoth amount of compression applied in the studio,which is why the live sound is very different.Compare Live Xcerpts to Rattus.

[Spoombung]

I'm surprised there isn't someone making rattling, torn, malfunctioning speakers in his honour.