Stiff fingers

[fjbarton59]

Hello everyone. I am new here so first I'll introduce myself. I am Frankie. I have had a little tuition but for the most part I am a self taught bass player and I have a few books on the subject to help me. I Like to play blues and punk but occasionally play other stuff too. If i like the sound of it I usually try to play it and I'm pretty good at playing by ear or from meory however i can read tab and score, to some degree. As a self taught basist I imagine i have missed a lot of basic stuff you should know but my problem s that my playing fingers often lock especially on short repetatives riffs. I like to play with my fingers rather than with a plectrum and i usually play with two but it's the seconds finger that locks. I try to keep my fingers relaxed as a play but Ifind this difficult I would imagine that properly experienced and trained bass players would know how to defeat this demon so I would appreciate any advice.

Frankie.

[pablyth]

[quote name='fjbarton59' post='992889' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:45 PM']Hello everyone. I am new here so first I'll introduce myself. I am Frankie. I have had a little tuition but for the most part I am a self taught bass player and I have a few books on the subject to help me. I Like to play blues and punk but occasionally play other stuff too. If i like the sound of it I usually try to play it and I'm pretty good at playing by ear or from meory however i can read tab and score, to some degree. As a self taught basist I imagine i have missed a lot of basic stuff you should know but my problem s that my playing fingers often lock especially on short repetatives riffs. I like to play with my fingers rather than with a plectrum and i usually play with two but it's the seconds finger that locks. I try to keep my fingers relaxed as a play but Ifind this difficult I would imagine that properly experienced and trained bass players would know how to defeat this demon so I would appreciate any advice.

Frankie.[/quote]

Hi Frankie

Welcome from another newbie.

I like to practise technique, which can get boring, but I feel it's worth it. Personally, I practise finger-style speed and consistency slowly and gradually with a metronome. Using alternate fingers on my plucking hand (one and two, or one, two and three) playing eighth notes, so both on and off beat, so one and two and three and four and... over and over and over again, with a simple one finger per fret playing whichever of the 4 notes my left hand is positioned over that I feel like. I do this for a short while, maybe 8 bars, then increase the bpm on the metronome and go again until I can go no more. Boring, but it works for me.

Never had a finger lock up though, maybe your hand position is out somehow?

[Delberthot]

your fingers lock as in they won't move at all or you get cramp and your fingers won't work properly?

If its the latter then practicing will improve this, if its the former then go to the doctor

[risingson]

[quote name='fjbarton59' post='992889' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:45 PM']Hello everyone. I am new here so first I'll introduce myself. I am Frankie. I have had a little tuition but for the most part I am a self taught bass player and I have a few books on the subject to help me. I Like to play blues and punk but occasionally play other stuff too. If i like the sound of it I usually try to play it and I'm pretty good at playing by ear or from meory however i can read tab and score, to some degree. As a self taught basist I imagine i have missed a lot of basic stuff you should know but my problem s that my playing fingers often lock especially on short repetatives riffs. I like to play with my fingers rather than with a plectrum and i usually play with two but it's the seconds finger that locks. I try to keep my fingers relaxed as a play but Ifind this difficult I would imagine that properly experienced and trained bass players would know how to defeat this demon so I would appreciate any advice.

Frankie.[/quote]

Hi Frankie,

Is it a case of the muscles in your wrist feeling like they're all tensing up and making your fingers lock? If this is true of you, then you need to approach practice at a slower pace, over the course of the years I've been playing and especially when I initially started gigging for long periods of time, I found my right hand locking up, especially when I used to play hard. I resolved the issue by warming up a little at the start of gigs, and by taking things slower as I was learning. You're correct in saying that relaxing will also help, playing with a softer touch will allow you to execute faster runs with considerably more ease. You should never have to play too hard to be heard as a bassist, playing too hard will place unnecessary strain on your wrist. Finally, your right hand should not be at an unusual angle over the strings. I'm happy to personal message you some pics demonstrating what I mean by all of this, I'm fairly rubbish at describing it!

[charic]

Are you straightening your finger all the way out? This could cause the joint to lock I think...

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='pablyth' post='992965' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:43 PM']Hi Frankie

Welcome from another newbie. [/quote]
us newbies should stick together, like my fingers do.
[quote name='pablyth' post='992965' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:43 PM']I like to practise technique, which can get boring, but I feel it's worth it. Personally, I practise finger-style speed and consistency slowly and gradually with a metronome. Using alternate fingers on my plucking hand (one and two, or one, two and three) playing eighth notes, so both on and off beat, so one and two and three and four and... over and over and over again, with a simple one finger per fret playing whichever of the 4 notes my left hand is positioned over that I feel like. I do this for a short while, maybe 8 bars, then increase the bpm on the metronome and go again until I can go no more. Boring, but it works for me. [/quote]
That sounds good. I do have a metronome nad i've blown the cobwebs off it. I play scaled like e-major and g-major. and I try te octive runs up and down (down is much harder than up, I find) I got the scales out of a book and there is a click track on the cd but i shall warm up the metronome if it still works.

[quote name='pablyth' post='992965' date='Oct 18 2010, 10:43 PM']Never had a finger lock up though, maybe your hand position is out somehow?[/quote]

It only happens if i'm playing short repetative riffs. It's like my fingers tense up and get confuse and then i have to shake them out to get them to work.

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='992998' date='Oct 18 2010, 11:05 PM']your fingers lock as in they won't move at all or you get cramp and your fingers won't work properly?

If its the latter then practicing will improve this, if its the former then go to the doctor[/quote]

It's like a bit of both. They don't cramp as in there's no pain but they seem to tense and lock up.

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='risingson' post='993029' date='Oct 18 2010, 11:51 PM']Hi Frankie,

Is it a case of the muscles in your wrist feeling like they're all tensing up and making your fingers lock? If this is true of you, then you need to approach practice at a slower pace, over the course of the years I've been playing and especially when I initially started gigging for long periods of time, I found my right hand locking up, especially when I used to play hard. I resolved the issue by warming up a little at the start of gigs, and by taking things slower as I was learning. You're correct in saying that relaxing will also help, playing with a softer touch will allow you to execute faster runs with considerably more ease. You should never have to play too hard to be heard as a bassist, playing too hard will place unnecessary strain on your wrist. Finally, your right hand should not be at an unusual angle over the strings. I'm happy to personal message you some pics demonstrating what I mean by all of this, I'm fairly rubbish at describing it! [/quote]

Actually, you're not . My hand is sometimes an a 45 degree angle fron the strings. I often play sitting down but when i stand up a have the bess across my chest rather than ocross my waste as a really struggle to finger pick when it's across my waist, beut saying that, the bassists i have seeen playing accross thier wastes use plectrums. I prefer to finger pick. It's a softer sound

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='charic' post='993108' date='Oct 19 2010, 07:06 AM']Are you straightening your finger all the way out? This could cause the joint to lock I think...[/quote]

Good point.

[risingson]

[quote name='fjbarton59' post='993568' date='Oct 19 2010, 02:22 PM']Actually, you're not . My hand is sometimes an a 45 degree angle fron the strings. I often play sitting down but when i stand up a have the bess across my chest rather than ocross my waste as a really struggle to finger pick when it's across my waist, beut saying that, the bassists i have seeen playing accross thier wastes use plectrums. I prefer to finger pick. It's a softer sound [/quote]

I consider it to be fairly bad technique having your bass strap too low, it places unnecessary strain on your wrists (both hands).

My advice: take practice slower, warm up, muscles as I'm sure you're aware will perform better once they're warmed up. Don't have your bass too low, practice getting the most out of your bass with the least amount of effort and I would say all of this in conjunction will minimise any potential wrist problems and finger locking. If it continues to be an issue then it would worth consulting a specialist over it.

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='risingson' post='993699' date='Oct 19 2010, 03:02 PM']I consider it to be fairly bad technique having your bass strap too low, it places unnecessary strain on your wrists (both hands).

My advice: take practice slower, warm up, muscles as I'm sure you're aware will perform better once they're warmed up. Don't have your bass too low, practice getting the most out of your bass with the least amount of effort and I would say all of this in conjunction will minimise any potential wrist problems and finger locking. If it continues to be an issue then it would worth consulting a specialist over it.[/quote]
If I practice any slower i wouldn't move Perhaps it would sound better if I didn't. I blew the cobwebs off my metronome, it's set to a nice speed. I think bass played slow but steady sounds better and there's room for more intricket little improvisations. As for the warming up. Do you know any warming up exercises that might help?

Thank you

[risingson]

[quote name='fjbarton59' post='993989' date='Oct 19 2010, 07:38 PM']If I practice any slower i wouldn't move Perhaps it would sound better if I didn't. I blew the cobwebs off my metronome, it's set to a nice speed. I think bass played slow but steady sounds better and there's room for more intricket little improvisations. As for the warming up. Do you know any warming up exercises that might help?

Thank you[/quote]

I'll try and explain this the best I can. Practice this with your metronome. Major scale starting at C, 8th fret on your low E string, with each of your fingers on your fretting hand occupying the surrounding frets in the finger per fret position, you should never have to move your left hand out of position. Don't just play the full scale however, try and introduce a degree of complexity by running up in 3rd or 4th intervals to begin with. So starting on the C going up in 4ths each time, you would group the scale like this (1st C, D, E, F) (2nd D, E, F, G ) (3rd E, F, G, A) (4th F, G, A, B ) (5th G, A, B, C) (6th A, B, C, D) (7th B, C, D, E) followed by the ascending scale in the reverse manner.

Three things. 1. fret with your fingertips, you'll get the most out of the note, flat fingers will introduce strain in your wrist. It's tough but just persevere. 2., whilst this technique can be applied to any key, major, minor, modal, anything you can dream up, begin the exercise in the middle of the neck and not low down, big stretching lower down the neck to begin with will result in you cramping up fast. 3. Most importantly, concentrate on the rhythm and speed of your right hand. Make sure you don't introduce unnecessary strain into your right hand by playing at an angle, and remember just because the closer you play to the bridge means that there is more tension to be had doesn't mean to have to dig in. Concentrate on playing lightly and with your fingertips to get the biggest sound out of your bass as possible. Don't waste energy plucking too hard because it's not necessary.

Once you've exhaust moving in 4ths, try moving up 3rds and landing on the note you started with (e.g., C, D, E, C - D, E, F, D - E, F, G, E etc.) purely for example, or try jumping 3rds, 4ths, 6ths even. The point of all of this is that you want to get both your hands working together and not having to struggle paying musch attention to either, as I'm sure you're aware with scales the repetitive nature of them can become dull but it's all about challenging yourself to see how tight you can get it all together.

If this has been in any way unclear (as no doubt it will have been, I'm not good at explaining this) then tell me and I'll do my best to get a video up or something that would explain this concept of warming up better. Equally, on the off chance you're in the North West I'd be happy to give you a few pointers, I hope it wouldn't be too partonising of me to suggest. Unfortunately a lot of the ways I warm up it would be much better me just showing you! Equally if it's not helping then I would ask around for a good teacher in your area and strongly recommend consulting a specialist. I know what works for me, but not necessarily what will work for you, but give it a shot.

Edited October 19, 2010 by risingson

[risingson]

Check this video out. Jaco Pastorius, someone who I consider to have excellent technique (give or take him as a player for some people) alludes to what I've just (badly) described above from 4:35 in. Whilst the video concentrates on what Pastorius is doing in his left hand, I'm certain it will help both your hands warm up if you just take it nice and easy to begin with.



EDIT - the video has disabled bedding so just go straight to the site.

Edited October 19, 2010 by risingson

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='risingson' post='994318' date='Oct 19 2010, 11:26 PM']I'll try and explain this the best I can. Practice this with your metronome. Major scale starting at C, 8th fret on your low E string, with each of your fingers on your fretting hand occupying the surrounding frets in the finger per fret position, you should never have to move your left hand out of position. Don't just play the full scale however, try and introduce a degree of complexity by running up in 3rd or 4th intervals to begin with. So starting on the C going up in 4ths each time, you would group the scale like this (1st C, D, E, F) (2nd D, E, F, G ) (3rd E, F, G, A) (4th F, G, A, B ) (5th G, A, B, C) (6th A, B, C, D) (7th B, C, D, E) followed by the ascending scale in the reverse manner.[/quote]

What with the what now?

[quote name='risingson' post='994318' date='Oct 19 2010, 11:26 PM']Three things. 1. fret with your fingertips, you'll get the most out of the note, flat fingers will introduce strain in your wrist. It's tough but just persevere. 2., whilst this technique can be applied to any key, major, minor, modal, anything you can dream up, begin the exercise in the middle of the neck and not low down, big stretching lower down the neck to begin with will result in you cramping up fast. 3. Most importantly, concentrate on the rhythm and speed of your right hand. Make sure you don't introduce unnecessary strain into your right hand by playing at an angle, and remember just because the closer you play to the bridge means that there is more tension to be had doesn't mean to have to dig in. Concentrate on playing lightly and with your fingertips to get the biggest sound out of your bass as possible. Don't waste energy plucking too hard because it's not necessary.[/quote]

I've developed quite a technique for that and I totally agree. I fret with my fingertips. (the skin on them now is as hard as a rock now ) When I started i flat fingered but i found that it covered to much area and gave a duller sound. When I fret with fingertips it's a cleaner and nicer sounding. When playing the bottom end I got a lot of fret buzz at first but pressing firmer on the bottom end seems to have solved that.. My playing hand i not so much as pluck the strings but stroke them. I did read on one of my books that you yould play the note firmly and softer sounds are achieved by turning the volume down but i think it meant that i can play soft but firm. I stroke the strings that way.
[quote name='risingson' post='994318' date='Oct 19 2010, 11:26 PM']Once you've exhaust moving in 4ths, try moving up 3rds and landing on the note you started with (e.g., C, D, E, C - D, E, F, D - E, F, G, E etc.) purely for example, or try jumping 3rds, 4ths, 6ths even. The point of all of this is that you want to get both your hands working together and not having to struggle paying musch attention to either, as I'm sure you're aware with scales the repetitive nature of them can become dull but it's all about challenging yourself to see how tight you can get it all together.[/quote]

I think i'd get that if i saw it. I understand the concept of first, thirds, 5th etc on scales but for some reason I'm not clicking on what you are saying.

[quote name='risingson' post='994318' date='Oct 19 2010, 11:26 PM']If this has been in any way unclear (as no doubt it will have been, I'm not good at explaining this) then tell me and I'll do my best to get a video up or something that would explain this concept of warming up better. Equally, on the off chance you're in the North West I'd be happy to give you a few pointers, I hope it wouldn't be too partonising of me to suggest. Unfortunately a lot of the ways I warm up it would be much better me just showing you! Equally if it's not helping then I would ask around for a good teacher in your area and strongly recommend consulting a specialist. I know what works for me, but not necessarily what will work for you, but give it a shot.[/quote]

Don't pull youself down. You're not bad at explaining but what you are explaining isn't easy to explain.. I dread to think how many grammtical faults there were in that sentence . If you have the facilities could you film something and say post it on youtube?

[fjbarton59]

[quote name='risingson' post='994326' date='Oct 19 2010, 11:40 PM']Check this video out. Jaco Pastorius, someone who I consider to have excellent technique (give or take him as a player for some people) alludes to what I've just (badly) described above from 4:35 in. Whilst the video concentrates on what Pastorius is doing in his left hand, I'm certain it will help both your hands warm up if you just take it nice and easy to begin with.



EDIT - the video has disabled bedding so just go straight to the site.[/quote]
That was awesome. I also like the way he got his first fretless. there's nowt like DIY. There references to a booklet and exercises in that video.