Bass Newbie Needs Bass Advice

[j2112c]

Hello Everyone,

Right... I have played 6 string guitar for 25 years, rock, metal and funk. I decided last week 'right I want to learn bass - I want to play Teen Town, Sussudio, I want to be a Wooten, Pastorius, Pattituci a white TM Stevens... (OK I really am joking now there is only ONE TM God bless him!)... but you get the idea.

Easy... YEAH! NOT!.... I looked at three basses (Streamer LX4, TRB6P, Perception 5 standard deluxe) , nearly bought one and then asked my bassist mates what they thought of my potential purchases...

It went something like this:

'You want BO'
' - you want through neck'
'go for a 5 string'
'- go 4 string'
' go active'
' - go passive...'
'go for a Warwick'
' - forget them they growl too much...' WTF 'GroWL?!' what are you talking about?! Growling ?...

Now I don't know anything.
As guitarist..
If someone said to me I like rock guitar I would say: mahogany body, through neck, set of 10 strings or higher, humbucking pick ups... colour, shape, brand up to you. Marshall Amps ect
If someone said to me I like Funk guitar I would say: Ash or alder body, BO neck, set of 9's, single coil pick ups.... colour, shape, brand up to you. Fender Amps ect.



So here is the deal I want to play fusion and funk. I do not particularly want to play rock on the bass - if I want to do that my 6 String & Marshall Stack will kill small animals.
I am not concerned if it is a 4,5 or 6 string though I liked the idea of a 5 or 6 string... (I like Pattiuci ) I already tune my guitars to perfect fourths (unusual I know). Big dexterous left hand (poor guitarists right hand unless you give me a pick in which case I will wear it down evenly alternate picking in 20 minutes! )

I know I am having a joke on this, that is my way... but there is a serious point here. Any offerings of advice welcome.
The only thing I will specify is that I want a top range bass, I want to buy secondhand at a budget of £800 but will go to £1000 for something neat. So that should get me a top bass from 10 years ago I suppose?

Edited October 22, 2010 by j2112c

[Beedster]

Get yourself a decent Fender Jazz or MM Stingray, can;t do wrong, and for that money you'll get a decent one at the moment. Only advice over that is to play before you buy.

Good luck

C

[Ou7shined]

What he said ^ especially the Stingray.

[Mog]

Get yourself to a store and try out as many basses as you can. Go with what feels and sounds best to you.

[Mog]

Awww Ragin! Just realised I passed up the chance of telling a guitarist what to do.............

[bubinga5]

good budget for a second hand bass....Do you have any shape preference?

What about a Lakland 44-02 /55-02..Joe Osborn 5 Jazz bass,Yamaha TRB 6, Stingray 5 are simply awsome basses..the B string one my old one was simply to die for..

[mcnach]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='997370' date='Oct 22 2010, 06:14 PM']What he said ^ especially the Stingray.[/quote]

yep and YEP!!! Stingrays, yum.

[j2112c]

[quote name='Mog' post='997514' date='Oct 22 2010, 08:47 PM']Awww Ragin! Just realised I passed up the chance of telling a guitarist what to do............. [/quote]

Ha ha!
Knuckle dragger!
At least you have sense of humour!




[quote name='bubinga5' post='997539' date='Oct 22 2010, 09:13 PM']good budget for a second hand bass....Do you have any shape preference?

What about a Lakland 44-02 /55-02..Joe Osborn 5 Jazz bass,Yamaha TRB 6, Stingray 5 are simply awsome basses..the B string one my old one was simply to die for..[/quote]


Hi, well in terms of shape I prefer the rounded wood shapes like the thumb bass or the basses with large cut aways so the horns are cut down, TRB6, rather than the more traditional Fender style.
I will check out the ones you have put down there. Thanks.



What is the story with the BO/Through neck thing with bases?

It seems a lot of high end bases are bolt on... and a lot of people who play bass say they think the Bolt On is better... this is strange to me as with guitar if you specifically want a clangy/jangly sound you go bolt on and apart from the higher end of Fender almost no high end stuff is BO.
Most high end is through neck, more harmonics, sustain, wood tone coming through... Why so many BO lovers in Bassland? Why so many high end basses BO? This is a decision in terms of purchase I need to understand.

[Mog]

The Bolt on/ Neck through debate is a tough one. Generally Neck Through will give better sustain and resonnance.Theres also easier access to the higher frets with NT construction. (IME) Again its a matter of what sound best to your own ear. Personally I dont have a problem with either.

[Beedster]

[quote name='j2112c' post='997565' date='Oct 22 2010, 09:49 PM']Why so many BO lovers in Bassland? Why so many high end basses BO?[/quote]

Several well respected builders I've spoken say BO v NT (and woods generally) makes little difference compared to PUPs, electronics, amplification etc. I'm insufficiently qualified to have an opinion, but they are I guess?

C

[j2112c]

I am going have to try a Stingray they seem popular choice here..
Ok, so the BO/NT debate is personal choice, in that case I will try both see if it makes a difference, but I imagine I would be more comfortable staying NT.

So can someone just give me a quick overview of pick ups (guitars high output humbuckers /low output single coils) so what are the choices in bass...?

I see what look like soap bars, humbuckers and strange ones that are sort of split (zig zag)... like lego out of alignment!

If buy a bass with soapbars what sort of sound... split lego... what sort of sound? It may not be as simple as this but I am learning.

Edited October 22, 2010 by j2112c

[bubinga5]

I would definately try an S5...very articulate, with a huge sound..very tight B string..VERY well made..IMO way better than any Fender ive had in fit and finish...Im a jazz bass guy but when it comes to 5 strings (which is i think you want if not a 6) the S5 beats the Fender Jazz 5 on build quality for most of the time...Tone wise thats your call..The lego you refer to seems like your describing a P bass pickup...(big fat Fender sound)

in my experience you wont notice BO (Bolt on neck) to NT (Neck through construction) ive played many and havent noticed much...i have a Modulus bolt on and it would wipe the floor with any neck through when it comes to sustain..but this is most de the graphite neck but even so there aint much in it.....this is usual selling point when it comes to NT...apart from the fact they look beautiful...i always like to take the neck off my basses though..more variables to setting up..

the key here is to get some models on your short list, and see if you can try them out...Try a Fender Jazz, Fender Precision, Stingray 4/5...these very rarely let down..do some research and go from there...know one really does it like these basses... then on this bassis try the variants of these...

Try Try Try..its you who has to like the sound bro...

Keep in mind a Stingray is active and if you like the tone, there are many Jazz basses that are active which give a different tone...

research and youtube are your friend...

Edited October 22, 2010 by bubinga5

[j2112c]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='997630' date='Oct 22 2010, 11:12 PM']I would definately try an S5...very articulate, with a huge sound..very tight B string..VERY well made..IMO way better than any Fender ive had in fit and finish...Im a jazz bass guy but when it comes to 5 strings (which is i think you want if not a 6) the S5 beats the Fender Jazz 5 on build quality for most of the time...Tone wise thats your call..The lego you refer to seems like your describing a P bass pickup...(big fat Fender sound)

in my experience you wont notice BO (Bolt on neck) to NT (Neck through construction) ive played many and havent noticed much...i have a Modulus bolt on and it would wipe the floor with any neck through..IMO...

the key here is to get some models on your short list, and see if you can try them out...Try a Fender Jazz, Fender Precision, Stingray 4/5...these very rarely let down..do some research and go from there...know one really does it like these basses...

Try Try Try..its you who has to like the sound bro...

Keep in mind a Stingray is active and if you like the tone, there are many Jazz basses that are active which give a different tone...

research and youtube are your friend...[/quote]

Thanks for the advice and help Bub. and everyone who chipped in it is appreciated.

Fun bit then... guitar shops and mates basses... like being a newb all over again... no Smoke on the Water or Sweet Child to test out.... there must be a bass equivalent... you know the one song that EVERYONE uses to test gear out with!
The song that gets banned- that if you work in a shop you BAN people from playing!?

When I was a kid in the guitar shop we had a guy come in, pick the most expensive guitar down from the wall (he didn't even ask) sat on an amp (!) and started playing Smoke at full throttle... at 17:25 (we closed @17:30).... we went into the back and dropped the power switch!

Lights out, alarms going off, his face dropped... we said - "Sorry mate, power outage we have had them all day, come back tomorrow!"

Edited October 22, 2010 by j2112c

[AttitudeCastle]

I say a Yammie 1006J, don't know if they are through neck but great basses,

5 piece neck, very playable will cover everything you mentioned and they looking awesome and are about £850-£900 new!

Edited October 22, 2010 by AttitudeCastle

[bubinga5]

I think for the most you can get away with most basses for most musical situations.. for the most the audience wont notice... BUT ive always thought thats not really the point.....its really what spurs YOU on to play better and what tone you like to hear when you play......i play much better on some basses better than others...thats because i think "wow i love that tone" and it inspires me....thats the key i think...well it is for me...

ok bass is new to you, but its always good to do your research and not waste money on mistakes...ive done plenty of that...

Edited October 22, 2010 by bubinga5

[spinynorman]

Go down and have a look at the for sale forum. Not to buy, just to look at all those beautiful basses being endless bumped from page 3 to the top of page 1 and back again. That's what happens when you try every bass in the shop and find the perfect one for you (this week).

Then go on eBay and buy the first one you like the look of. It'll be fine.

[Slipperydick]

[quote name='Mog' post='997513' date='Oct 22 2010, 08:45 PM']Get yourself to a store and try out as many basses as you can. Go with what feels and sounds best to you.[/quote]

What Mog said, but - dont buy it, go elsewhere and do the same, then think about it, then do it all again.

Not in a hurry are you ?

[Prosebass]

[quote name='spinynorman' post='997655' date='Oct 22 2010, 11:54 PM']Go down and have a look at the for sale forum. Not to buy, just to look at all those beautiful basses being endless bumped from page 3 to the top of page 1 and back again. That's what happens when you try every bass in the shop and find the perfect one for you (this week).

Then go on eBay and buy the first one you like the look of. It'll be fine.[/quote]

Good advice

For that money I would go for a 'stock' AGC with all the bells and whistles...

[j2112c]

You guys may not realise, but you have something that I realised this week takes time to 'learn' - somehow it takes experience and constant playing / listening to get your ears attuned to 'good tone'. Bass wise... you guys would say yes I hear x,y and z... in that bass and I would not pick it up.
Equally I can filter out the nuances of twenty Les Paul I play... I can find one that is playing well, intonated, hear the subtle differences in tone, filter out the ones with the best harmonics, sustain and clarity.
I am almost certain that I DO NOT have that ability with the bass.. my ears are not there yet.


My only cost is the bass, hence I will spend more on the bass itself one that will outstrip my abilities (possibly forever!)...

I have an amp that will do - a 20w Marshall 2061x handwired head which is a lead & bass amp... dropped through a Marshall stack of two 1960 4x12 cabs....
@20w it will not drive or blow the speakers if anything it will it should loosen up the speakers and they should sound even better broken in over the years in that way!
Effects wise a TC Electronics G Major will cover the bass side as well with an afternoon of making up a couple of 'bass voices'. Of course I have no idea what effects you bass guys use... but there you go...

I have absolutely no idea what ANY of it will sound like... but that is the fun bit, I may find my own tone out of necessity and luck.

[rOB]

[quote name='bubinga5' post='997630' date='Oct 22 2010, 11:12 PM']Try a Fender Jazz, Fender Precision, Stingray 4/5

Try Try Try..its you who has to like the sound bro...[/quote]

+1 to this. These are the basses which others are often compared to IMHO

[BigRedX]

Other than "learn the bass" what do you want to do. Just play for your own amusement and maybe a bit of home recording? Or are you planning to eventually be the bassist in a gigging band? If it's the latter, then looks will be as important as sound and playability, although you may find that other musicians in other bands can have rather fixed ideas about what constitutes an appropriate look for a bass.

Otherwise as others have said simply get yourself down to your local musical instrument shop(s) and play as may basses as you can. Ignore the specs and the name on the headstock and go with what your ears hands and eyes tell you is pleasing. Also if you're trying factory produced instruments like Fenders try them all - just because one P-bass doesn't float your boat doesn't mean than that the next one on the wall isn't potentially "the one".

One final point. Your nice guitar amp won't be much use for bass for anything other than low level home practice. The general rule of thumb for bass amplification in a band situation is to add up the max output of the rest of the ban's backline and then multiply by 5 to get the kind of ap output you'll need to be heard.

Good luck!

[Lozz196]

Another thing to think of as well, is which bassists sound do you really like, and aim to sound like. If all yr fave players play a specific model, then I`d start out trying one of those. I spent years buying/selling basses, trying to achieve a specific sound in my head, then finally realisation hit, all my faves use Precisions. Bought one, haven`t looked back (aside from buying more Precisions that is).

[j2112c]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='997826' date='Oct 23 2010, 09:45 AM']Other than "learn the bass" what do you want to do. Just play for your own amusement and maybe a bit of home recording? Or are you planning to eventually be the bassist in a gigging band? If it's the latter, then looks will be as important as sound and playability, although you may find that other musicians in other bands can have rather fixed ideas about what constitutes an appropriate look for a bass.[/quote]

Initially I am looking to write with it, I have been with a vocalist for two months now writing and the single best way to write is putting my guitar through a COSM bass simulator as I get rhythm and simple notes to anchor... the guitar is more aligned to the vocals some icing on the top. Later of course when the guitar is in I try to (probably badly) elaborate in the existing bass line

IF.. I get good enough and have an opportunity at a good soul, dance or funk band in the style of Lisa Stansfield/Incognito... then I would gig... it really is up to the level of aptitude I have for it and the standard I can manage Until I am as certain of the bass as guitar, I would not have the conifidence to go out as half cocked a guitarist 'trying' to be a bass player.... there is nothing worse to see.
It will take at least three months to get the right hand going and probably a year to get it really natural - the left hand will be fine.

Do you think people worry on the looks of the bassists instrument? I just hoped the bass player would turn up in the last band.... if he could have played like Miller he could have played an Explorer!
It is interesting you say that as you are the second person that has said this to me.


[quote name='BigRedX' post='997826' date='Oct 23 2010, 09:45 AM']One final point. Your nice guitar amp won't be much use for bass for anything other than low level home practice. The general rule of thumb for bass amplification in a band situation is to add up the max output of the rest of the ban's backline and then multiply by 5 to get the kind of ap output you'll need to be heard.[/quote]

It is as I always suspected with you bassists! Multiply volume by 5!
I understand due to the frequencies, just joking with you.

The amp is one of the reissues of the lead/bass amp so has a bass channel at 20w as you say it will be fine for home and recording only. Through for recording I may go direct anyway, unless I gig I should be safe.





[quote name='Lozz196' post='997827' date='Oct 23 2010, 09:45 AM']Another thing to think of as well, is which bassists sound do you really like, and aim to sound like. If all yr fave players play a specific model, then I`d start out trying one of those. I spent years buying/selling basses, trying to achieve a specific sound in my head, then finally realisation hit, all my faves use Precisions. Bought one, haven`t looked back (aside from buying more Precisions that is).[/quote]

So much is in the hands I suppose, but I guess the sound I would hope to get would be a 1980's sound, a Marcus Miller/Mark King thick bottom end with a treble pop... probably a little less mid... as that is where my Marshall stack puts my guitar!


Another sound I absolutely love... is the sound of Paul Youngs 'Wherever I Lay My Hat and 'The Night Shift' Comodores (on this video it is a Steinberger) how do they get that sound?
What effects? Chorus and Octaver? Pino Paladino? (Probably)


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywoHBGS_DnQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywoHBGS_DnQ[/url]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkEDe6Ljqs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrkEDe6Ljqs[/url]


In the 80's the guitar got processed to death went like tin with layers of delays, chorus and COMPRESSION (ughhh) - infact you can hear it in the above song which is fine for funky, not so good for picked parts. Where as the bass got Mark King and this sort of thick as soup sound.



Again a big thanks for the info lads n lasses. I will let you know what I end up with

Edited October 23, 2010 by j2112c

[Truckstop]

You might be better off getting a slightly less expensive bass and actually investing in a good amp instead. Alot of the 'sound' you might be after, may actually come more from the amp rather than the actual bass itself.
Failing that, just try try try and try some more.
Also, I think the riff of death for bass in guitar shops is 'Another One Bites The Dust', so get that down pat!

Truckstop

[daz]

i wouldnt even try anything with more than four strings if you are are starting out, no matter how long you have played guitar. Give yourself a chance.

Read my signature below for Billy Sheehan's thoughts on bass guitars with more than four strings.

ps: dont forget to give the Squier Classic Vibe series a try out.

Edited October 23, 2010 by daz