There is no bassline in my head.

[Bass_Junkie]

The one thing (or the worst thing) i am having trouble with and have always had trouble with is making up my own basslines.

I hear other people just making stuff up on the spot who have been playing for the same time as me and i ask them how they did it and they just say 'i just played what i heard in my head'

If i pick up my bass and try to just play something i without thinking just play something i already know just somewhere else on the fretboard, or something that i have heard before.

How can i start writing proper basslines if i dont hear it in my head?

When i try to hear a bassline in my head i just hear something i've heard before or already know.


Please help me, i love playing bass but at the moment i can only play along to things and if i get into another band i'll need to be able to come up with good and i dont want to have to give up.

I practise loads in a day (in fact i have my bass on my lap now) but when i play i can only seem to play things i know.

[queenofthedepths]

Well, one approach (although by no means THE approach - there are plenty of other ways to write bass lines but I think this is a fairly good one to have under your belt) is to start with an idea (if you've got a song with lyrics written, brilliant - otherwise just think up some random concept you want to write a song about) and think about the sounds which characterise that idea - play a particular run or a scale or a chord and think about the feelings it invokes... once you know what musical components fit together, you should be able to put together a complete song without thinking about it - I should imagine that's how classical composers write vast symphonies without being able to hear what it sounds like
As for needing to write stuff for a band, that's not always the case... whilst it's a good thing to write your own bass lines, a lot of musicians (guitarists) would rather you did exactly what they told you and if you spend plenty of time practising learning other people's stuff, you shouldn't have a problem doing that! I certainly appreciate it when guitarists can play my orchestrations exactly the way I want them to... that's not to say I don't value their input though, so it does seem that having some ideas of your own is at least a bonus

[skywalker]

My way to do new things is to take a song I like, get a chord chart and work out what I want to play from that. I might play the same song 10 different ways before I get what I want, but I have the chord chart to point the way, I can then improvise over the chords, putting in thirds, fifths and whatever other chord tones or chromatics and phrase against the bass drum.

I also don't get bored, as something new comes to mind each time I play. It also helps me learn the chord progression for the song (not necessarily every note of the bass line), and I can then jam with other muso's and make a reasonable fist of the song

Might not work for everybody, but I enjoy it.

Steve

[Super_Mario_Bass]

wait till ur angry, or very emotional. then sit down and just play

[WalMan]

Making up bass lines for what? Do you mean just sitting down & playing something, or coming up with something for a cover or original your band is doing.

Just sitting down to "make up" a bass line for no other reason than to do so is IMO a largely pointless waste of time.

Knowing your way around the neck, playing along to tracks trying to replicate the bassline will give you a insight into how a line is or can be put together.

Like a lot of people you have spoken to I would find it hard to give you chapter & verse on how I came up with a line. It will be a combination of instinct, interacting with the rest of the band (and particularly the drummer) and a feel for what the song needs (not necessarily what will show off how brilliant you are or may think you are)

Like a lot of the older farts on here I suspect I picked up a great deal of what I know through playing along to a record, cassette or latterly CD, going back & forth trying to work out what the bass player was up to, and not relying on some dodgy downloaded tab with someone else's idea of what may be going on.

And just because you end up playing something you've heard or already know is not necessarily a bad thing. Use it as a starting point and then mess with it in the context of the song you are working on

[mic mac moe]

You should try copying melodies,especially the subconscious ones-radio jingles etc or things you can remember.Something you heard someone whistle down the shops for instance.It all helps unlock the 'board and break the cycle of playing lines you already know.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Bass_Junkie' post='113705' date='Jan 4 2008, 07:08 PM']The one thing (or the worst thing) i am having trouble with and have always had trouble with is making up my own basslines.

I hear other people just making stuff up on the spot who have been playing for the same time as me and i ask them how they did it and they just say 'i just played what i heard in my head'

If i pick up my bass and try to just play something i without thinking just play something i already know just somewhere else on the fretboard, or something that i have heard before.

How can i start writing proper basslines if i dont hear it in my head?

When i try to hear a bassline in my head i just hear something i've heard before or already know.


Please help me, i love playing bass but at the moment i can only play along to things and if i get into another band i'll need to be able to come up with good and i dont want to have to give up.

I practise loads in a day (in fact i have my bass on my lap now) but when i play i can only seem to play things i know.

[/quote]

regard yourself as a computer, an empty one to start with, if you want use of it it requires input of a software kind, you are just the same, so before you can get stuff out you need to put it in so...... learn as much music as you can, any kind, any instrument, melody, harmony, bass part, accompaniment, rhythm part literally anything and everything. till you're full then stick your fingers down your musical throat and watch it all come back up BTW this process can take years.
Best of luck
Ps just checked your profile and saw your age. You will be fine you are at the input stage right now so get on with it and enjoy it.

Edited January 12, 2008 by jakesbass

[Moo]

1.Listen to lots of different music. Include lots of stuff you would not normally listen to, and you will sometimes find new things you do like.

2. Hum along to the basslines you like and they will be absorbed into your memory.
I have found that I can only remember things I like. Its really hard to remember something you don't like, or are not bothered about, but its ok, because your choices between what you do and do not remember will obviously help to shape your own style.

3. From time you will hear a line that you realy like. - Pick up your bass and then learn it. If your bass is not handy when you hear a new killer line, then try and write your own notes for it.
Your notes may not be pitch perfect, but they will help you to remember the original line when you try to play it later.

After a period of time you will have built up a library of phrases in your mind, and as you play along to things, the phrases that fit the groove will pop into your head from your memory of similar tunes.
If you have practiced them you will be able to slot them in to what you are playing without really thinking about it. As stated above this process takes time. I realise now that I have been doing this for as long as I can remember listening to music (35+ years), and long before I started playing bass. I can honestly say that I do not know the lyrics to any pop song, but I can remember the groove and feel of thousands of basslines which I have heard a few times on the radio, because I realise that the bassline and groove is predominantly the part of the song I listen to.
This is why I find a lot of indie guitar music so boring, because its all about the lyrics which I don't listen to, and rarely has an original groove.
I may not be able to play all of the bassline I know note perfect, but that is not what counts when your making your own lines. For me the groove and feel of a bassline, and the way it fits in with the drummer and rythm players is the most important thing.
Over a period of time you will find yourself liking certain types and styles of basslines, and this will define your own style and feel for playing.

Obviously if you are playing covers, then punters will expect you to learn the original basslines note perfect to reproduce the original grove of the song.
If you are creating a new groove for a cover, then it needs to be very different to, and/or better than the original, because otherwise the punters will just assume that you got it wrong, or you are not good enough to play the original.


This method may not work for everyone, but I am sure that everyone will be doing it subconsciously in varying degrees.

Note about practicing: A very good guitarist once explained to me that every time you practice, you should be playing something new that you find slightly difficult. If you are playing the same things over and over then you are wasting your time, and will make no progress in your playing. (your original post tells me that you know this already.)

Hope this helps
Moo.

[The Funk]

If you have no inspiration or ideas, just play the root note on the 1, and then a combination of the third, fifth and seventh. Just play pentatonic stuff. It's simple and it sounds cool.

Major pentatonic on major chords, minor pentatonic on minor.

[David Nimrod]

[quote name='The Funk' post='118540' date='Jan 11 2008, 02:15 PM']If you have no inspiration or ideas, just play the root note on the 1, and then a combination of the third, fifth and seventh. Just play pentatonic stuff. It's simple and it sounds cool.

Major pentatonic on major chords, minor pentatonic on minor.[/quote]


Good advice... pretty much what I do a fair bit of the time

[Bilbo]

Don't be afraid of making mistakes. There are no such things a wrong notes, just poor choices.

Sit with that bass and don't play [i]anything[/i] until you think of something new to play or, at the early stages, just to look for. Even if it takes an hour. It will come.

Steve Swallow says "I believe it's written somewhere: "Steve Swallow has to sit uneasily at the piano for ten hours before receiving his next idea," so I sit there as patiently as possible. Eventually, an idea always comes..."

I always say that students should get used to that knot of frustration you feel in the pit of your stomach when you practice something you can't quite get. If that feeling isn't there, you probably aren't doing anything useful with your personal practice time.

[The Funk]

[quote name='David Nimrod' post='118550' date='Jan 11 2008, 02:26 PM']Good advice... pretty much what I do a fair bit of the time [/quote]

I've been getting away with it for 14 years

Bilbo's advice is the perfect ideal. It's a good thing to try to implement as early as possible.

But if there's time pressure to conjure up basslines, the quick fix is what I suggested.

Random fumblings on the instrument in the early stages of your development can help you hear all the different notes and intervals that are available. Until you have them all in your head, you might struggle to hear lines in your head without the aid of the instrument.

But the end goal should be reaching a state where your imagination prevails over chance discoveries or stock formulae. At the moment, I use a mix of all three. I don't think there's any need to restrict yourself to just one method of coming up with an idea though.

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='Bass_Junkie' post='113705' date='Jan 4 2008, 07:08 PM']How can i start writing proper basslines if i dont hear it in my head?[/quote]
Put the bass down and try humming along with the song. You'll find it frees you up a bit more. Then pick out what you've been humming on the bass. It gets you out of that "first finger on root note of first chord" thing.

Edited January 12, 2008 by stingrayfan

[Kirky]

Singing/humming is good advice. I remember reading that Jaco used to have his bass on his lap whilst watching TV and used to play along with the theme music / adverts / whatever. Good idea, because you're dealing with familiar stuff mostly, and just doing it almost subconsciously. I agree very much with something someone else said further up - reading tabs is no way to learn how to play on the fly - you have to listen to stuff and play along.

[tonybassplayer]

Most of the time I put a drum loop on through Garageband on my apple laptop and a suitable bassline seems to come in to my fingers ( I don't think about it too much I just play it )

I then go on to put guitars on and then a vocal.

By contrast to this quite often I get a "first line of the vocal" in my head and then I come up with a riff that seems to suit the words and phrases ( this seems to work a lot more when I am doing something new ie visiting another country etc ) The problem with this is getting it recorded before I forget it.

Just shows how different we all are

Tony

[FJ1200]

Had the same trouble with lack of ideas from time to time. Now I find I get a good lick - it might be 10 seconds, 30 seconds, 5 minutes - but I tend forget it and need summat to record it onto FAST!! Still miss some of 'em though! Last night I was chatting to the wife about holidays and she was checking it all on the web and I was plugged in and playing at the time, and had some pretty good sounds appearing but I wasn't 'thinking' about it - just playing and going with the feel of where it was leading. Even she liked it! But I play bluesey stuff anyway and I love just playing for fun. My daughter's keyboard has a drum 'machine' (ha ha) on it so I use that too. Doesn't always sound good but occasionally I hit gold.

But as has been said listen to stuff you don't normally like. I've started playing around with slap - I'm not a huge fan but it's a technique I've never managed to master and another string to my bow. However - I wot I really really wantis others to jam with. I'm not in a band as such - the music group at church - all very different styles and levels (mostly better than me!), largely classically trained and no idea about jamming. It helps to give you ideas, you have to actually listen to what others are playing and work with it spontaneously - I just love it and usually sit there with a stupid big grin on me face when it's going well.

My ideas come from all over - radio, Bible, other bass players, anything with a beat - even a tempo the washing machine was kicking out on a fast spin! S'true!!

Keep at it though - hope you get some inspiration. Let us know when you get your breakthrough.

[Bassmouseman]

As has been said listen to as much different stuff as possible and not just the bass lines, guitar parts, horn sections, piano parts. Work some out on a bass, they all have a different ways making the parts fit in the song it all adds to your library.

A good practice method is to take a line you know and change the feel (Rock to Reggae, Soul to Metal etc.) you'll find that those notes don't have to sound like that song. Also you should start to hear places where you could add a note or change something to modify the riff if you keep playing with it you will soon find yourself playing a completely different riff of you own making.

Hope this helps / makes sence