BC Rich Paolo Gregoletto (Trivium) Signature 4 & 5 String rant

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Hey there

Right, so I was looking around at 5 strings after being drawn back to listening to Trivium again, and after seeing a few of Paolo Gregoletto's bass lines, solos and his actual basses, I thought I'd have a look at his signature BC Rich Warlock signature 4 and 5 string basses. I was absolute disgusted with what I saw on the BC Rich website.
After really studying Paolo's 5 string in his "Shogun Bass lines" video section on their album Shogun's bonus DVD, I saw that the bass he plays is as follows

Warlock shape
White with black binding
Neck through construction
Reverse stealth headstock
Seymour Duncan active MM 5 pickups (Seymour Duncan active MM 4 pickups on his 4 string)
Schaller closed gear tuners
Leo Quan Badass V bridge (Badass II on his 4 string)
24 jumbo frets
Mahogany body with maple neck
Ebony fretboard

Instead of releasing this as the spec of the signature bass, BC Rich decided to put it out with this as the spec

Warlock shape
White with black binding
*Bolt-on neck*
Reverse stealth headstock
*BC Rich active humbucker 5 pickups* (BC Rich active humbucker 4 pickups on the signature 4)
*BC Rich closed gear tuners*
*BC Rich top loading 5 string bridge* (BC Rich top loading 4 string bridge on the signature 4)
24 jumbo frets
*Basswood body with maple neck*
Ebony fretboard

Now to me, that is absolutely disgraceful, especially as they're selling this model for anything between £450 and £600 which is the same price as the new NT Warlock 5 string which looks like an absolutely amazing bass to play. I think BC Rich really do need to sort this out, it's disgusting what they've done with this model

[Meenie]

Yeah, bit cheeky ain't it!
Maybe they should have a disclaimer or something stating that the bass is not the exact same spec but 'similar'

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Spec wise most are pretty close, for example all the stuff Fender do seem to be pretty spot on to what the artist actually plays (Steve Harris, Tony Franklin, Marcus Miller etc) or what the artist wants it to be (Dave Murray, John 5, Billy Corgan).
Paolo even does the adverts for his "signature" model holding his own personal one instead of the one BC Rich are releasing.
If they're going to release it with the specs that different, they should not list it at that price or call it the signature model as it's no where near the bass it's meant to be modelled on

[StevieD_FenderP2009]

Oh god yeah, the Randy Rhoads and Dimebag models have just been completely taken out of context, but the reason I didn't mention them is the same reason I didn't mention Stevie Ray Vaughn's Fender Strat or Chuck Schuldiner's BC Rich Stealth, they're all deceased (RIP) and they've just had their names flogged for bad marketing purposes.
With regards to the Tony Iommi SG, I couldn't honestly tell you if it was Gibson or not he was holding in the adverts, but as far as I'm aware, he's played Gibson SG guitars since the start of Black Sabbath apart from a few occasions where I've seen him playing leftie Fender Strats, but I know that he did a deal with Epiphone to release an Epiphone SG Tony Iommi model which was basically the same as his Gibson SG but different wood so it was a bit cheaper for starter to intermediate players to buy.
I see you mentioned Mike Dirnt there as well. Well I know for a fact that he and Frankie Bello of Anthrax spoke to Squier about having a model released through Squier for starter bass players to buy but still get decent quality. There's a video on youtube where Frankie is actually talking about it.
And lastly, you mentioned the Peavey Scorpio David Ellefson, well I just looked on the Peavey website at the specs of it and then watched a video on youtube of Megadeth's bass tech going through David's stuff and the model listed on the Peavey website is exactly the same as the model David uses live. You may have been thinking about the pickups in them which confused me to start with, but in his 4 string he uses Seymour Duncan SPB-3 and SJB-3 pickups but in his 5 string model he uses EMG P + J pickups which is the same on both the website and with what David uses live

Edited October 25, 2010 by StevieD_FenderP2009

[RhysP]

[quote name='StevieD_FenderP2009' post='1000089' date='Oct 25 2010, 03:09 PM']With regards to the Tony Iommi SG, I couldn't honestly tell you if it was Gibson or not he was holding in the adverts, but as far as I'm aware, he's played Gibson SG guitars since the start of Black Sabbath.........[/quote]
A lot of the time, certainly since the late 70s, he's played John Birch & Jaydee SGs, not Gibsons.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='RhysP' post='1000136' date='Oct 25 2010, 03:57 PM']A lot of the time, certainly since the late 70s, he's played John Birch & Jaydee SGs, not Gibsons.[/quote]


I never knew that!


There's also the old story of Joe Perry being presented with a choice of his signature models and not finding a single good one.
Also Slash played a luthier-made "Gibson" for most of his career IIRC?

Here's an interesting article that's been linked on here before:
[url="http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/node/240"]http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/new/node/240[/url]

I have a good mate who plays Gibsons purely based on the two guitarists mentioned above, even though he can't really afford to. I haven't the heart to link him to that article, let alone tell him that the guitar he owns (and paid a nice lump of money for) is an absolute dog!

[Chris2112]

Thankfully I can't stand BC Rich basses or Trivium, or I might feel similarly miffed

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1000077' date='Oct 25 2010, 02:52 PM']Wasn't there also something to do with the Iommi Sig SG. Something about in some of the Gibson ads he wasn't even holding a Gibbo ?[/quote]
Funnily enough, not available left handed...

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1000047' date='Oct 25 2010, 02:24 PM']Does it surprise you ??

Are their any Sig models 100% identical to the one the artists play?[/quote]

Hmmm
Hows about the Level 42 30th Anniversary Status King Bass
Yamaha Attitude (the original and/or II)
Fender Roscoe Beck
Fender (Stu Hamm) Urge
Gary Willis' GWB Ibanez (though not the cheaper one)
Vigier Roger Glover Excess
Fodera Yin-Yang (as used by Victor Wooten)
Zon Michael Manring Hyperbass

The deciding factors in all of the above being either;
1) The bass was good enough in relatively standard trim and was adopted by the artist with few or no changes

or

2) The artist and manufacturer collaborated and built a signature model from the ground up- as in the case of the Roscoe Beck and Urge and (not quite) The Yamaha Attitude. All 3 of these basses are nothing short of formidable, as those hereabouts who own them will confirm!

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1000317' date='Oct 25 2010, 07:03 PM']Zon Michael Manring Hyperbass[/quote]
That one actually isn't anymore, Zon won't make the detunable bridge anymore.

[ThomBassmonkey]

The majority of "signature" instruments are designed with cost in mind so that people who want are inspired by certain players can pick up similar instruments.

I doubt many international artists like those mentioned in this thread are playing sub £1,000 instruments (as many of their signature basses are.)

Let's face it, there's probably no serious musicians that will buy a bass solely on the merits of the person who's name is printed on the headstock. If the bass is a good instrument too (as some signature basses are) then people will pick up on that, but they'll gain little or no benefit from having the user's name on the headstock anyway, the only real market where a player's name on the headstock would make a massive difference would be the cheaper price range. So selling replicas of famous musician's instruments wouldn't bring much profit unless they really were worth that kind of money.

[fretmeister]

I think it is simple - a bassist from Trivium is not going to have enough fans with money for BC Rich to put out a £3000 bass with all the trimmings.

So they make one that will sell to the market that listens to Trivium the most.

Exactly for the same (but in reverse) reason that Fender won't do a MIM Dave Gilmore strat.

Signature models are in tribute to the artist - if you want the exact same instrument, then phone their custom shop just like the artist did. They will be happy to take your order.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='1000699' date='Oct 26 2010, 12:51 AM']Exactly for the same (but in reverse) reason that Fender won't do a MIM Dave Gilmore strat.[/quote]


Not true! I like Gilmore and i'm poor as sh1t!

[Doctor J]

Signature bass doesn't mean it's his actual bass, just that he's happy he's being paid enough to appear in ads with it and for his signature to be on it.

[cocco]

Iommi has a signature Jaydee too doesn't he?

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1000317' date='Oct 25 2010, 07:03 PM']Fender (Stu Hamm) Urge[/quote]

Don't forget though, with Stu's basses there is something of a catch. First of all, there was the "Urge Standard", basically a pretty naff 32" scale active jazz bass. I had one briefly and whilst it was lovely and light it sounded pretty crap and felt cheap. And with Stu's "Urge II" basses, he uses ones made in the Fender Custom shop handmade by Todd Krause. They are, of course, amazing instruments!

[dwh87]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='1000699' date='Oct 26 2010, 12:51 AM']I think it is simple - a bassist from Trivium is not going to have enough fans with money for BC Rich to put out a £3000 bass with all the trimmings.

So they make one that will sell to the market that listens to Trivium the most.

Exactly for the same (but in reverse) reason that Fender won't do a MIM Dave Gilmore strat.

Signature models are in tribute to the artist - if you want the exact same instrument, then phone their custom shop just like the artist did. They will be happy to take your order.[/quote]


I have to agree with all of this.

Most trivium fans are well under the age of twenty and very few of them have the money to buy a US made bass with the spec the real deal has. The other sigs from the Trivium guys are reasonably priced for what they are.

If the fan base of Pete Wentz was in their twenties and older instead of teens then his sig would be a fender and not squire. It is all about making money as easy as possible.

[Lorne]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='1000317' date='Oct 25 2010, 07:03 PM']Hmmm
Hows about the Level 42 30th Anniversary Status King Bass
Yamaha Attitude (the original and/or II)
Fender Roscoe Beck
Fender (Stu Hamm) Urge
Gary Willis' GWB Ibanez (though not the cheaper one)
Vigier Roger Glover Excess
Fodera Yin-Yang (as used by Victor Wooten)
Zon Michael Manring Hyperbass

The deciding factors in all of the above being either;
1) The bass was good enough in relatively standard trim and was adopted by the artist with few or no changes

or

2) The artist and manufacturer collaborated and built a signature model from the ground up- as in the case of the Roscoe Beck and Urge and (not quite) The Yamaha Attitude. All 3 of these basses are nothing short of formidable, as those hereabouts who own them will confirm![/quote]


To be fair, all of the basses you've mentioned, are a lot dearer than the Paulo Warlock thing.

And, someone once said to me, that the Yamaha Attitude LTD is EXACTLY the same as the ones Billy Sheehan uses, it was Billy himself that told me that, BUT, look closely at his Red one, it has a Bird's Eye Maple fretboard, I have never seen an Attittude with one of those, I owned one of the blue ones once many years ago

As for the Warlock, there are better basses available, and if you want one Identcal to his one, the customshop will strip your wallet of over £3000 for the privilidge

[AttitudeCastle]

[quote name='Lorne' post='1002503' date='Oct 27 2010, 02:27 PM']To be fair, all of the basses you've mentioned, are a lot dearer than the Paulo Warlock thing.

And, someone once said to me, that the Yamaha Attitude LTD is EXACTLY the same as the ones Billy Sheehan uses, it was Billy himself that told me that, BUT, look closely at his Red one, it has a Bird's Eye Maple fretboard, I have never seen an Attittude with one of those, I owned one of the blue ones once many years ago

As for the Warlock, there are better basses available, and if you want one Identcal to his one, the customshop will strip your wallet of over £3000 for the privilidge [/quote]

Mine has a differnt (VERY NICE!) Maple cut on the fretboard,

I'm almost certain he has no birdseye maple board ones?

Most of his are touched up at YASH though,

like the gloss finish one! I'd MURDER for that and the one with the pearloid pickups xD

and his all chrome one? Its selling for about $9000-$10,000 :'( haha

[Lorne]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1003077' date='Oct 27 2010, 10:04 PM']Mine has a differnt (VERY NICE!) Maple cut on the fretboard,

I'm almost certain he has no birdseye maple board ones?

Most of his are touched up at YASH though,

like the gloss finish one! I'd MURDER for that and the one with the pearloid pickups xD

and his all chrome one? Its selling for about $9000-$10,000 :'( haha[/quote]


Take a very close look at his red on on the Cherry Lane "Bass Secrets" video, it has a Bird's Eye Maple fretboard

Edited October 27, 2010 by Lorne

[LukeFRC]

I'm pretty sure even for the custom shops asking for the same bit of wood from the same tree would be one step too far!

[LeftyJ]

[quote name='Darkstrike' post='1000444' date='Oct 25 2010, 09:30 PM']That one actually isn't anymore, Zon won't make the detunable bridge anymore.[/quote]

I believe they still build one with just the 4 Hipshot X-tenders, like the one pictured in the background here

[Gust0o]

The NT Warlock looks very tempting, I've only heard good things about it.

The Paolo-sig Warlock is patently not an identical replica of his own bass - it's an approximation, assumedly with some level of input from Paolo (I'll leave that level of input open to debate - they certainly did, however, build a bass to his exact spec); and it's affiordable, which is where BC Rich has been plying most of it's trade in recent times.

Thus you can afford to look pretty much like your idol, which - for most people - is enough; and I think it's a fair reflection of this site that we're certainly not 'most people'. I'm quite happy to endorse the OP, it's not good enough; but then, if it was, I wouldn't be expecting to pay £350 for it.

I can still heartily recommend the BC Rich custom shop - my Eagle, "Wonky" (the name has stuck, despite my original Ironbird sharing it!) being a fantastic example of the craft, even allowing for the unique placing of the logo!

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='LeftyJ' post='1003501' date='Oct 28 2010, 11:06 AM']I believe they still build one with just the 4 Hipshot X-tenders, like the one pictured in the background here [/quote]

Oh, they do, I was just pointing out that without the special bridge they aren't the same as Manrings.

[Delberthot]

The Rickenbacker 4004LK couldn't be further from the one he became famous for using. Fair enough he plays this one live now but the age old question is - is Lemmy's original one real? I don't think anyone's had a close enough look at it to see if it is.

i may have a chance to ask in a couple of weeks time.