Understanding Triads?

[choobakka]

Hi guys.

I need your help 'understanding' triads.

I've been learning to play bass for the past 6 months and I'm really enjoying it. I've learnt to read music at a basic level, fretboard positions and I also leant to play 'In the Midnight Hour' by Wilson Pickett but I can't seem to understand the 'purpose' of triads.

At the moment I'm only dealing with Major Triads. I know which notes to play, (R-3-5, 3-5-R, 5-R-3) and I know I can play any of those notes whether it be above or below the starting position, but i'm having difficulty understanding [i]why[/i] I'm playing them and what purpose they have.

Any help you guys can give me will be much appreciated.

Also, When I'm playing the triad should I play it as R-3-5-R (octave) or just R-3-5 and then change the starting position? If you could give me some examples that would be great.

Thanks

[TKenrick]

The reason for studying/practicing triads is that they form the basic harmony for nearly all styles of music. Having a sound knowledge of triads gives you options when it comes to bass playing, so you can create lines that don't just involve the root note of the chord and navigate chord progressions in a more musical way. Also, a good working knowledge of triads is essential if you're going to move on to studying 7th chords.


[quote name='choobakka' post='1000556' date='Oct 25 2010, 10:05 PM']I know which notes to play, (R-3-5, 3-5-R, 5-R-3) and I know I can play any of those notes whether it be above or below the starting position,[/quote]

When you say you know which notes to play, are you referring to intervals or the actual names of the pitches? You need to know both. Most people never get past learning a shape for triads, which isn't enough.


Some suggestions for practicing triads:

-Play root position triads (R-3-5-Octave) around the cycle of fourths:

[b]C F Bb Eb Ab(G#) Db(C#) Gb(F#) B E A D G[/b]


This makes sure you play things in every key, and also gives you practice at playing ideas over chords that move in fourths, which happens all the time in a number of genres.

- Work out fingerings for root position major triads starting on your 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers.

- Play major triads in all inversions (from the root, from the third, from the fifth). It already sounds like you know how to do this, but practice this horizontally (moving up the neck) as well as vertically (staying in one position and moving across the neck). Play them ascending and descending around the cycle of fourths.


If any of the above isn't 100% clear then please shout!


Tom

[choobakka]

Hey Tom, thanks for the reply.

When I said I knew which notes to play, I meant I know that I can play the Root then the 3rd then the 5th (and inversions) but I don't understand how this will help me to make/play music. Therefore, I guess the real question is, where do I go after Triads (and how are Triads helping me get there)?

Thanks for the playing tips too. I've been making my way slowly around playing through the circle of 5ths/4ths. That bit I get but I'm still not understanding where this is leading me towards i.e what's next!

With regard to finger positions, so far I've worked out fingerings for root positions starting on the 2nd and 4th fingers. I'll try to work out some starting on the 1st finger.

I've also been playing the inversions horizontally and vertically trying to work out all the possible combinations but like I said, I don't understand where this is leading me.

I seem to be able to understand [i]how[/i] to play the triads (R-3-5 and inversions all over the fretboard) but I can't seem to grasp [i]why[/i].

Thanks for the tips Tom but I still don't quite understand their purpose!

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='choobakka' post='1000556' date='Oct 25 2010, 10:05 PM']Hi guys.

I need your help 'understanding' triads.

I've been learning to play bass for the past 6 months and I'm really enjoying it. I've learnt to read music at a basic level, fretboard positions and I also leant to play 'In the Midnight Hour' by Wilson Pickett but I can't seem to understand the 'purpose' of triads.

At the moment I'm only dealing with Major Triads. I know which notes to play, (R-3-5, 3-5-R, 5-R-3) and I know I can play any of those notes whether it be above or below the starting position, but i'm having difficulty understanding [i]why[/i] I'm playing them and what purpose they have.

Any help you guys can give me will be much appreciated.

Also, When I'm playing the triad should I play it as R-3-5-R (octave) or just R-3-5 and then change the starting position? If you could give me some examples that would be great.

Thanks[/quote]

I can highly recommend this book,

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Jazz-Bass-Jerry-Coker/dp/0769230172"]http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Jazz-Bass-J...r/dp/0769230172[/url]

Starts with basic triads and then expands & expands.

Also, when you say you can play any major triads in the positions your in, are you using the same shape every time??

What you want to be doing from the word go (and i wish i did) is learn to be able to play a triad in any position.

I'll post a picture so you get what i mean.....



What i'm trying to get at is, practice to a metronome going through triads without leaving 1st & 2nd position and no open strings. Then after that, go through it in 4ths, then 5ths, major 3rds etc....

Once your happy with that, start again, but using all possible open strings. What you'll find this'll do is really expand your fretboard knowledge and recognise a pattern any where on the neck.

This can also be applied to major scales etc....

Hope that makes sense, it was a bit of a quick reply as i'm on my way out.

Jake

[choobakka]

Hi Jake,

thanks for the reply.

[quote]Also, when you say you can play any major triads in the positions your in, are you using the same shape every time??[/quote]

No, I've been (trying to) use different shapes. So far I've done shapes starting with the 2nd finger on the root and the 4th finger on the root. Tom suggested I try the 1st finger too so I'll try that the next time I practice.

I'm not sure I understand what you meant with the image but I'll have a proper look when I get home and try and digest it!

Thanks again

[JakeBrownBass]

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001101' date='Oct 26 2010, 01:41 PM']Hi Jake,

thanks for the reply.



No, I've been (trying to) use different shapes. So far I've done shapes starting with the 2nd finger on the root and the 4th finger on the root. Tom suggested I try the 1st finger too so I'll try that the next time I practice.

I'm not sure I understand what you meant with the image but I'll have a proper look when I get home and try and digest it!

Thanks again[/quote]

Well the image is essentially just that.

Going through triads chromatically, but not going out of 1st & 5th position and no open strings.

I really would recommend that book though as its got exercises for you to work through that will last you a lifetime.

[Doddy]

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001065' date='Oct 26 2010, 01:06 PM']I seem to be able to understand [i]how[/i] to play the triads (R-3-5 and inversions all over the fretboard) but I can't seem to grasp [i]why[/i].

Thanks for the tips Tom but I still don't quite understand their purpose![/quote]

You say you can play 'Midnight Hour'-that's a good example of the purpose of triads(as is a standard rock and roll style line).
Basically a triad is the notes that make up a basic chord- 1,3,5. So,when you ask 'why' do you use them,the simple answer is you play them to outline the chord.

Just out of interest,are you learning them by fingerings,or are you going by the notes
(eg. C,E,G, D,F#,A etc)?

[choobakka]

Hi Doddy,

[quote]you play them to outline the chord.[/quote]

What does this mean exactly?

[quote]Just out of interest,are you learning them by fingerings,or are you going by the notes
(eg. C,E,G, D,F#,A etc)?[/quote]

I'm learning the finger positions and shapes but when I play each note, I say them out loud to myself so I know which note I'm playing

[TKenrick]

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001065' date='Oct 26 2010, 01:06 PM']I seem to be able to understand [i]how[/i] to play the triads (R-3-5 and inversions all over the fretboard) but I can't seem to grasp [i]why[/i].[/quote]


Triads (or intervals, or scales) are a means to an end, rather than an end in themselves. The goal here is to make music, and triads are one of a number of tools that can help you do that. In most playing situations you'll encounter a guitarist/keys player that is providing harmony (chords) in some form or another, and part of your job as the bass player is to outline those chords. Triads are good starting point for this because they contain all the notes of a specific chord.

The more knowledge you have of chord tones (the notes that make up triads, 7th chords etc) then the greater your ability to support the harmony played by other musicians. This is why I asked if you knew the pitches in each major triad - being able to play triads in all inversions/positions has limited musical value if you only really know the root note.

Knowing the pitches that make up chords allows you to create bass lines that move smoothly between chord changes - again, we're looking to make music, not play exercises. Say we have a chord progression:

C / / /| F / / / | G / / / | D / / /|


Rather than just playing triads in a R-3-5-R pattern (or similar) for each chord, think about the pitches in each chord and how they relate to the chord in the next bar. For instance, moving from C to F, you could make E (the major 3rd) the last note of the first bar, followed by an F to start bar 2. This gives a nice bit of tension and resolution. This is one of many ways of moving from C to F, here are some more examples, all of which just use notes from the major triad:

[attachment=62220:Picture_1.png]


Where are triads leading you? The next step on the ladder is 4-note chords (7th chords) - all 7th chords are some sort of triad with an extra note added. Before approaching 7th chords I'd suggest getting to grips with minor, augmented, diminished and suspended triads in all keys (both how they're constructed and the pitches involved).

Hopefully this helps!

Tom

[SaxxyBass]

Hi Choobakka,

I'm newbie to bass, but as a Sax player what I can tell you is that chords (triads, 7ths and all their inversions - obviously played arpegiated on Sax!) and modal scales (major,minor,dorian,blues etc) are invaluable to know as they help you know where are in the structure of the genre of music youre playing. Do you play piano/keyboard? I often work jazz chords out on my piano for the sax, as I can then actually see and hear the chords built up.

Hope that helps a bit? - sorry if I've confused you even more! I now have to try and learn where all mine are on a very alien instrument (which is making my fingers sore! arggh!!)

edit - TKenrick explains it above better than me - took me so long to type mine that I missed his post!

Edited October 26, 2010 by SaxxyBass

[Doddy]

[quote name='choobakka' post='1001157' date='Oct 26 2010, 02:28 PM']What does this mean exactly?[/quote]

Let's take a dead basic 12 bar progression as an example,in the key of C.

Try playing a basic walking line by playing crotchets(quarter notes) using just triads in a 1,3,5,3, pattern. So,over the C chord you'll
play C,E,G,E, over the F chord you'll play F,A,C,A, and over G you'll play G,B,D,G. What you are doing is playing the notes that are in
a major chord as an arpeggio (the notes of a chord played individually).
If you were to play this with a guitar player who is soloing,by playing this pattern you and he will still be able to hear what the chords are because
you will be playing them as an arpeggio. That's what I mean when I say you outline the chords.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Triads are ruthless.. don't upset them