Do I need to read music

[Wil]

I really should get around to learning the notes on the neck at some point, but then I've been playing in bands for a decade and it's never been necessary. Similarly I taught myself to read music and to an extent sight read for cello and piano, but I always found I created better music when I forgot all that stuff and just played the music in my head with relative pitch. Probably down to the fact I learned that stuff after years of playing along to records and improvising, it felt like a backwards step I wasnt prepared to invest time in to overcome.

It's all horses for courses at the end of the day, I'm sure I've said all this before. If you want to get paid gigs, play classical or jazz, or do session work, then it's probably a good idea to learn to read. If you're rocking out in an originals bands though, take it or leave it, but make sure your ears are up to par.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Wil

[lowhand_mike]

do you NEED to , no
would it help, in most situations no it wouldnt
would it help you progress as a player, very likely
think the question you should be asking here is 'do you want to?' and 'do you see the need to?'

i learnt from a simple book and video (yes real video VHS) and that book had both tab and standard notation, obviously i chose the easy route to start, i learnt to play on tab. then i learnt by playting by ear and then went back to tabs when i got stuck.

Standard notation cant teach you rhythm or timing you have to learn it through practice or listening to a recording to get it or metronome.
But i still dont know my scales outside the major and minor ones, and i should and this should be your goal before sight reading imho then you know your way around a bit then learn more scales. and get the fret notes in your head then sight reading can be a little less daunting.

but do you NEED it, no you dont.
Though in my opinion i learnt the most by playing in a band, i had to step up, i had to get it right as if i didnt it all sounds bad.

[blind pilot]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1003994' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:22 PM']If you can't read,how do you know that it offers no benefit at all?[/quote]

Ok maybe i should have typed - It has not hindered me so far.........................There has not been one point were my playing has been "compromised" by not being able to understand the dots and squiggles!

[AndyTravis]

Not that worried really, was just an example of one of the gigs i missed out on, and some of the oppertunities that can arise from being a confident reader.

Soon after that me and the missus got engaged and decided to start a family.

And the littlun is telling me to put my hat on now...

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004019' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:41 PM']... What on earth do you want the chord names for? ...[/quote]
For communication.

The song ends...
Me to guitarist: 'That final chord you play, the G chord, try playing a G6 it would sound much better I think.'
Guitarist: 'Which chord?'
Me: 'The final chord, you're playing a G major, try playing G6.'
Guitarist: 'What is G6?
Me: 'Put the sixth note of the scale into the chord, it's an E note.'
Guitarist stares at me.
Me: 'You see your ring finger on the high E string? Just take it off the G note at the third fret and let the open E sound.'
Guitarist: 'OK' ... 'That sounds great.'

[Wil]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1004060' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:58 PM']For communication.

The song ends...
Me to guitarist: 'That final chord you play, the G chord, try playing a G6 it would sound much better I think.'
Guitarist: 'Which chord?'
Me: 'The final chord, you're playing a G major, try playing G6.'
Guitarist: 'What is G6?
Me: 'Put the sixth note of the scale into the chord, it's an E note.'
Guitarist stares at me.
Me: 'You see your ring finger on the high E string? Just take it off the G note at the third fret and let the open E sound.'
Guitarist: 'OK' ... 'That sounds great.'[/quote]

Western music theory is not a universal language among musicians though, as this thread shows. You may as well have asked him to play a chord in Esperanto. If I want to get something like that across to my guitarist, I pick up the guitar and show him. The only universal language of music is music itself.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be easier for you if he did know the chord names, but IME most hobby musicians don't focus as much on that side.

I'm not really sure what my point is here.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Wil

[bh2]

I can't read notation and I struggle with tabs... I can have the chords to the bars written down..

Dm/Bb/A/A/ ect... fine for jazz and stuff...

I would like to be able to sightread though.

[Marvin]

Depends on the band.

However, no one I know who plays, and are in bands, can read the squiggles and it doesn't stop them performing some top notch entertainment.

[stingrayPete1977]

I think this is getting a bit OT and was answered in the first post, The question was "do you need to read to be in a band?" The answer is [b]no[/b] as many of us can prove by not being able to read and playing in many bands without a problem. Anything after that is just fuelling the debate which we had last week about musicians who can and cant read the dots.

Any suggestion that learning anything new is a waste of time is just stupid more strings to your bow etc although some creation can be found by having to work things out that the readers would not of had to do so its never a simple arguement for me but as I said that was not the question.

Some of my favourite experiences playing have been jamming with other people who dont speak the same language as me or each other, No tabs, No dots, Nothing. At best a point to say the fifth fret or something and a nodding action to suggest the tempo! Thats how I roll baby....

Edited October 28, 2010 by stingrayPete1977

[Bilbo]

No. Just as you do not have to be able to read to act in a play. It would help if you could but, as long as you can learn the material/create original lines without the dots, noone will think any less of you for not being able to read.

I would, however, recommend that you do because it is brill.....

[Cat Burrito]

As far as the OP is concerned, no. I've played since the 80s & always managed to walk into bands I've wanted to join. I've never failed an audition & I've done a fair few sessions, hundreds of gigs and had a blast doing it all.

However, all that said I wish I'd learnt to read when I was younger. You have an extra string to your bow if you can & it will increase your options in terms of going for some sessions / gigs. It doesn't have to be a major barrier but it can only be of benefit if you have an extra skill.

[skej21]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1003961' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:09 PM']I'll always recommend learning to read to anyone-There are absolutely no downsides to learning it.
You may never use it in your current band,but you never know what may happen down the line. Plus,it
opens up a whole new world of information.You'll benefit from being able to buy and understand many
books that are available,or even just the exercises that are printed in magazines.[/quote]


+ 1

The thing I like most about reading music is that you get to see what other musicians think that bass part should sound like.

Sometimes it's bad, but when they have an idea that's great (and that you may never have thought to do) you get something out of that.

Like Doddy says, there are no downsides and if worst comes to worst, just don't use it!

[oldslapper]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1003972' date='Oct 28 2010, 04:11 PM']In an originals scenario, I find being able to [i]write[/i] music down incredibly useful, especially if we've failed to record a rehearsal. If we jam out something pretty complicated, there's no danger of forgetting it because I can scribble it down in a few seconds.

And obviously it then helps to be able to read it again afterwards. [/quote]

This is a good point. The ability to write parts down has been enormously helpful at times.

In 35 years of playing in "bands" though, I have rarely been presented with a score, the most recent was on a small tour this summer when I had no time to rehearse. It was very useful to be able to read then.

If I was doing shows, or as someone else said, the rest of a band communicated as a whole with score, then not reading could be a handicap.
Although Nigel gets away with it!

Despite what I hear some people say.....reading music does NOT stifle your creativity maaaan...in my experience it enhances your vocabulary, and after all, are we not all trying to communicate......oooh, that was pretentious...get me!

[lojo]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1004090' date='Oct 28 2010, 05:18 PM']I think this is getting a bit OT and was answered in the first post, The question was "do you need to read to be in a band?" The answer is [b]no[/b][/quote]

True, but for me half the fun is talking b******s

Its worth noting that reading is a tool and apart from its ability to allow a musician to understand and play something instantly they have not heard before, nothing else it does cannot be achieved by other means, even if those other means are more long winded, which often they are

As a non reader, if there is anything else I don't realize in that comment id be keen to know

Its a tool I wish i had

[aceuggy]

Ok, thanks everyone for your input, some great advice there. The general consensus seems to be that it's not essetial to be able to read to be in a band, but it wouldn't do any harm. For me though I probably won't learn to read as I won't ever be playing in a pro band, but I will try to learn the notes on the fretboard so that I can at least noodle around in the correct key. Using my ears came up a few times and I think that is the most important piece of advice. I must get away from relying on tab and just try to play something that comes from me. Thanks again guys

Edited October 28, 2010 by aceuggy

[bh2]

Yes...

Your CV P looks nice with the covers btw.

[lojo]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='1004203' date='Oct 28 2010, 06:56 PM']Ok, thanks everyone for your input, some great advice there. The general consencus seems to be that it's not essetial to be able to read to be in a band, but it wouldn't do any harm. For me though I probably won't learn to read as I won't ever be playing in a pro band, but I will try to learn the notes on the fretboard so that I can at least noodle around in the correct key. Using my ears came up a few times and I think that is the most important piece of advice. I must get away from relying on tab and just try to play something that comes from me. Thanks again guys[/quote]


Forgive me, but due to the need to ask the original question and your statement about learning the fretboard, you are in a very fundamental position, perhaps a perfect starting point to learn "properly" reading an all

Im trying to say that if you are going to have to learn the notes etc anyway, why not combine it with reading

I think there are alot of guys on here like me, who have learned much as we have gone (like knowing where every note is throughout the fretboard) etc. but not learned to read, and given our time again would have combined it all

[xilddx]

The fact is, if you learn to read but don't have a situation where you can apply it often enough, you will just be semi-literate and be a musical chav. To be a decent sight reader you need to be in situations where you can apply it often. You'll need challenges to develop as a sight reader. Go for it if you want to play jazz or be a session musician, or play in a band full of readers.

It's also very good to learn carpentry, it does no harm and I don't know anyone who said they were worse off because they learnt it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='lojo' post='1004211' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:03 PM']Forgive me, but due to the need to ask the original question and your statement about learning the fretboard, you are in a very fundamental position, perhaps a perfect starting point to learn "properly" reading an all

Im trying to say that if you are going to have to learn the notes etc anyway, why not combine it with reading

[b]I think there are alot of guys on here like me, who have learned much as we have gone (like knowing where every note is throughout the fretboard) etc. but not learned to read, and given our time again would have combined it all[/b][/quote]
God, I've been playing for 30 years and other than the first five frets on the E and A strings, I have to work out what the notes are called. But I can improvise over stuff reasonably well and after a good while your fingers kind of develop eyes, as Steve Vai once said. You know what the notes are going to sound like before you hit them. I can usually sing a melody in my head and more or less play it straight away.

I made a nice spice rack last year with my carpentry skills

[Wil]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004245' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:31 PM']God, I've been playing for 30 years and other than the first five frets on the E and A strings, I have to work out what the notes are called.[/quote]

I'm glad it's not just me!

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004245' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:31 PM']God, I've been playing for 30 years and other than the first five frets on the E and A strings, I have to work out what the notes are called. But I can improvise over stuff reasonably well and after a good while your fingers kind of develop eyes, as Steve Vai once said. You know what the notes are going to sound like before you hit them. I can usually sing a melody in my head and more or less play it straight away.

I made a nice spice rack last year with my carpentry skills [/quote]

+1 All of this is correct but I have never made a spice rack! I can plaster though does that count?

[stingrayPete1977]

Oh and I have only been playing for 22 years, Other than that all of the above!

[aceuggy]

[quote name='lojo' post='1004211' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:03 PM']Forgive me, but due to the need to ask the original question and your statement about learning the fretboard, you are in a very fundamental position, perhaps a perfect starting point to learn "properly" reading an all

Im trying to say that if you are going to have to learn the notes etc anyway, why not combine it with reading

I think there are alot of guys on here like me, who have learned much as we have gone (like knowing where every note is throughout the fretboard) etc. but not learned to read, and given our time again would have combined it all[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but my original question was do I need to read to play in a band? The answer to that it appears is no. I think learning to read would be a nice thing for me to do, but not essential to play in a band. The thing is I don't aspire to any great musical standard. It would all just be a bit of fun really.

Edited October 28, 2010 by aceuggy

[aceuggy]

[quote name='bh2' post='1004209' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:01 PM']Yes...

Your CV P looks nice with the covers btw.[/quote]

Thanks for the compliment I am very happy with it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='1004258' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:38 PM']I understand what you are saying, but my original question was do I need to read to play in a band? The answer to that it appears is no. I think learning to read would be a nice thing for me to do, but not essential to play in a band. The thing is I don't aspire to any great musical standard. It would all just be a bit of fun really.[/quote]
Depends on the band.

It's a bit like saying do I need carpentry skills to work on a building site.

You haven't really said what sort of music you want to play in a band. If it's pop, rock, blues or whatever, the answer is normally no, you don't need to read music, you will learn the music by ear. I play in a prog-pop band and the only non-reader is me. Even the guitarist is a sight reading pianist, so is the drummer. The violinists hold masters degrees in music from posh music colleges. I've never had a problem because the singer/songwriter trusts my instincts to compose her bass lines and thankfully loves what I do. I have a good ears and can learn complex songs and arrangements by ear very quickly.