Do I need to read music

[skej21]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004615' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:35 AM']

Then go back to bed.[/quote]

Or stay up a bit later, expand your skills by researching polysomnography and become a more "complete" sleeper

[xilddx]

[quote name='skej21' post='1004618' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:39 AM']Or stay up a bit later, expand your skills by researching polysomnography and become a more "complete" sleeper [/quote]

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1004529' date='Oct 28 2010, 11:04 PM']be able to speak their language, whatever it is, IMO.[/quote]
"A facility for languages is a useful talent in head-waiters." [Otto von. Bismarck].

The value of an acquired skill is dependent upon context and circumstance. That is all.

[xilddx]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='1004624' date='Oct 29 2010, 12:47 AM']"A facility for languages is a useful talent in head-waiters." [Otto von. Bismarck].

The value of an acquired skill is dependent upon context and circumstance. That is all.[/quote]
I wish I had your skill with brevity and distillation, Skank. How could one say better what I have tried to say all along. Thank you!

[risingson]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004502' date='Oct 28 2010, 10:39 PM']Christ, it's like being in the military for some of you isn't it. I can't believe some of this regimented attitude to the arts.[/quote]

Why not? Fine, if you don't want to be a serious player then maybe it doesn't apply but understanding your role in EVERY possible outcome as a musician is surely a helpful thing, no? You can't suddenly reject education just because it seems too conventional, music to me is serious as well as enjoyable and it will do more harm not addressing barriers that hinder your playing, e.g. not being able to read. You seem to be almost actively discouraging it, which is just a terrible idea.

[xgsjx]

I've read the OP & a couple of answers, skipped all the pages to this one & read it so I don't know if this has been said (I'll get a read at work if I'm not busy).

My opinion is that whilst you don't need to be able to read, it can come in useful to help understand music itself. Getting knowledge in theory (with or without being able to read score) is one of the most valuable assets you can have for songwriting. Simple things like knowing time signatures, what the scale is you're playing & what key the song you're writing is in make it so much easier to write.
I could write you a song without picking up an instrument & have done in the past (such as on long train journeys & whether they're good or not is another Q).

In both my bands, all the members can read music & understand theory (how much is debatable ) & we never read or write music when composing together but rely on theory to help understand what each other is doing.

[lojo]

A teenage band I support just did there first gig, rage against the machine, some ACDC, that sort of thing

It was truly really good, if you closed your eyes, you would have not known how young they where

Yes, they have been fully supported with the use of a rehearsal room each week and borrowing plenty of gear


Point is, no reading music, just MP3s and hours in front of YouTube at the weekends by all the lads


Now the issue is, do we encourage them as they are, because they really have something as a unit?

Or

Tell them, well thats great, but really you should forget metal and whats cool in your pier group and go an learn real music theory (which is not cool to them)

Either way, we could be right or wrong in the future

[aceuggy]

Gentlemen, I think this thread has got a little out of control. I never intended it to become a slanging match between those that think reading is good and those that don't. I merely asked if it was essential to read to play in a band. Just a pub rock and blues band. I think somewhere in there there was talk of horns and stuff!! The answer to my question I take it is no, not essential, but useful. I am relatively inexperienced as a bass player and have a lot to learn, but I am looking forward to that process however far it takes me.

Edited October 29, 2010 by aceuggy

[xilddx]

[quote name='risingson' post='1004681' date='Oct 29 2010, 03:26 AM']Why not? Fine, if you don't want to be a serious player then maybe it doesn't apply but understanding your role in EVERY possible outcome as a musician is surely a helpful thing, no? You can't suddenly reject education just because it seems too conventional, music to me is serious as well as enjoyable and it will do more harm not addressing barriers that hinder your playing, e.g. not being able to read. You seem to be almost actively discouraging it, which is just a terrible idea.[/quote]
You clearly have not read my post/s so it is pointless me reiterating with great voracity that I AM NOT DISCOURAGING ANYONE FROM READING MUSIC!!

[i]"understanding your role in EVERY possible outcome as a musician is surely a helpful thing, no?"[/i] Ridiculous. Do you? Are you really saying anyone is actually capable of that? I would suggest it is impossible and stupidly idealistic. It is also one of the most soulless things I have ever heard a musician say.

And what is the point of it? To get work? As a bass teacher? In an orchestra pit at Legally Blond? To get the Dido gig? If that's the sort of life you want as a musician, then by all means prepare yourself for many situations. But one other thing you should prepare for is failure to make a living as a musician. That and the fact you have dedicated so much time to something you will probably fail at, that you have no fallback and have to work for a cleaning company to make ends meet, or drive other (successful - but can't read) bands around, or work in a rehearsal studio taking bookings.

I think you are being led about by the nose by the musicians magazines and various people on here that if you become a great sight reader you will get work as a full time bassist and make a decent living. Do you realise how hard that is to achieve and how few opportunities there are? Most good gigs are got through networking and word of mouth, and boy, you had better also concentrate on your personal hygiene and communication skills because in the end, that's what will get you the gig.

Your point about not wanting to be a SERIOUS player makes me so angry on behalf of all serious players who don't read music notation. You are dismissing SO MUCH music as NOT serious simply because their creators cannot read music.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='lojo' post='1004737' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:43 AM']A teenage band I support just did there first gig, rage against the machine, some ACDC, that sort of thing

It was truly really good, if you closed your eyes, you would have not known how young they where

Yes, they have been fully supported with the use of a rehearsal room each week and borrowing plenty of gear


Point is, no reading music, just MP3s and hours in front of YouTube at the weekends by all the lads


Now the issue is, do we encourage them as they are, because they really have something as a unit?

Or

Tell them, well thats great, but really you should forget metal and whats cool in your pier group and go an learn real music theory (which is not cool to them)

Either way, we could be right or wrong in the future[/quote]
You should do both, encourage them as they are & let them know how great they sound & point out that as a band.
Theory would allow them to write songs (even theory in it's most basic form). You could point out that the bands that they cover use theory to write their songs.

When did theory become uncool?

[xilddx]

[quote name='aceuggy' post='1004825' date='Oct 29 2010, 09:46 AM']Gentlemen, I think this thread has got a little out of control. I never intended it to become a slanging match between those that think reading is good and those that don't. I merely asked if it was essential to read to play in a band. Just a pub rock and blues band. I think somewhere in there there was talk of horns and stuff!! The answer to my question I take it is no, not essential, but useful. I am relatively inexperienced as a bass player and have a lot to learn, but I am looking forward to that process however far it takes me.[/quote]
Don't worry about it mate

This happens three times a year on Basschat, it's the Battle of Britain with the sight-reading Spitfire pilots shooting the dirty and illiterate non-readers in their 109s. It's a good thing, everyone lets a bit of steam out their valves and it all calms down later and everyone is friends again, until four months later

[thunderbird13]

Its funny with these arguments that they seem to come down to a theory is good/bad discussion with the ear only purists “ implying “ that it is their own internal creativity which has taken them to where they are today ( its normally a good place). On the other hand the reading only purists “ imply “ that the ear only sect are lazy and holding themselves and others back, To them reading is seen as a gateway to a larger , perhaps more professional world where well educated musicians can converse with each other on the same level via reading and a discussion of theory. It is in itself an echo of the Barbarian Vs Civilised arguments of ancient Rome, one using logic and reason to impose order on their world whilst the other tries to harness the powers of nature for their own ends - and of course both sides of the arguments contain half-truths.
The way I see reading music (not sight reading which is a different skill) is of value to everyone as it allows you to read music books and magazines without listening to the CD first, you can see the rhythm visually and this helps fix it in your mind and teaches you to count bars properly. To the average player that’s it, no pit gigs, no playing dep gigs on the fly, no session work - that’s for players who are GOOD (and will have learnt how to read anyway). But the benefits of reading for the average player are still pretty useful and its ONLY BASS you have to learn – single notes written on one staff ! Try learning piano or guitar and see how hard chords can be to read. Compared to that bass isn’t hard and I think anyone with average intelligence could learn the basics it in a week using one hour an evening – I certainly did and believe me I am nothing more than a very very average player.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004839' date='Oct 29 2010, 09:57 AM']Don't worry about it mate

This happens three times a year on Basschat, it's the Battle of Britain with the sight-reading Spitfire pilots shooting the dirty and illiterate non-readers in their 109s. It's a good thing, everyone lets a bit of steam out their valves and it all calms down later and everyone is friends again, until four months later [/quote]



I guess I'm Douglas Bader in a Spitfires then.....none of my posts leave me with a leg to stand on.

[Twigman]

In 30+ years of playing in bands I've never once had to learn to read notation. I can read a treble clef but that's of little use to a bass player. LOL
I've found it useful to learn some of the theory and understand how intervals work (minor 3rd etc) and I'd have problems if I didn't understand my scales and be able to name all notes in a certain key (and find them on the fretboard) but not being able to read notation has never been an issue.

I'm not a Spitfire pilot but probably not quite me109 pilot....I think I'm flying a FW190


oh and whoever said they'd never met a non-reading horn player....I have - I worked with a sax player who could only blow 4 notes and didn't even know the notes' names - or even if they were 'legitimate notes' - he was great and recorded on some records! I also played once with a chap who had a cornet (I think he'd inherited it from his dead granddad) - he could blow a few notes, had no idea what he was doing but still played in a band.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Twigman

[Wil]

I think I might be in a Stuka.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Twigman' post='1004925' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:22 AM']In 30+ years of playing in bands I've never once had to learn to read notation. I can read a treble clef but that's of little use to a bass player. LOL
I've found it useful to learn some of the theory and understand how intervals work (minor 3rd etc) and I'd have problems if I didn't understand my scales and be able to name all notes in a certain key (and find them on the fretboard) but not being able to read notation has never been an issue.

I'm not a Spitfire pilot but probably not quite me109 pilot....I think I'm flying a FW190 [/quote]
So you are not a SERIOUS musician then

[Twigman]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004950' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:41 AM']So you are not a SERIOUS musician then [/quote]
SERIOUS?

No not me - I like to have fun when playing music - don't want to be getting all SERIOUS now do we?

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004233' date='Oct 28 2010, 07:22 PM']The fact is, if you learn to read but don't have a situation where you can apply it often enough, you will just be semi-literate and be a musical chav. To be a decent sight reader you need to be in situations where you can apply it often. You'll need challenges to develop as a sight reader. Go for it if you want to play jazz or be a session musician, or play in a band full of readers.

It's also very good to learn carpentry, it does no harm and I don't know anyone who said they were worse off because they learnt it.[/quote]

Musical chav? Perish the thought.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Twigman' post='1004955' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:43 AM']SERIOUS?

No not me - I like to have fun when playing music - don't want to be getting all SERIOUS now do we?[/quote]
Quite

It's just that we non-readers, or not well practiced readers, have been classified by the cognoscenti as "Non-SERIOUS" musicians, unprepared for EVERY possible musical situation we could POTENTIALLY become involved in. I just hope you don't have a trumpet player in your band, you could be in SERIOUS trouble if you can't read music.

[skej21]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1004964' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:48 AM']Musical chav? Perish the thought.[/quote]

One thinks that this forum is like the Chatsworth Estate (Shameless) for musical chavs...

Bloody commoners! My corgi can sightread better than thee, even on a full size bass!

*Whispers to guards - "orf with their heads"*

[xilddx]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1004964' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:48 AM']Musical chav? Perish the thought.[/quote]
Come on, you are a secret Burberry Bubinga Botherer

[Twigman]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004968' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:51 AM']I just hope you don't have a trumpet player in your band, you could be in SERIOUS trouble if you can't read music.[/quote]

Did you see my edit in my post above about the sax and the cornet players ?

[Pete Academy]

To the OP, no you obviously don't need to read music to be in a band.

I can't read a note but I have to admit that it's lost me some gigs, mainly cruise jobs.

It took me a fair while to learn our set, so it would have been useful to read music and have a written score to work from. But saying that, it improved my ear training no end. Our brass players are rteally the only musicians that follow a score, and I sometimes envy them being able to sit in with any musical situation at short notice.

I think it's more important to develop a good sense of time and groove. The best reader in the world won't get the job if he or she doesn't possess those qualities.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='silddx' post='1004974' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:53 AM']Come on, you are a secret Burberry Bubinga Botherer [/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='Twigman' post='1004978' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:54 AM']Did you see my edit in my post above about the sax and the cornet players ?[/quote]
Ha ha! No I hadn't, but I have now