Basses as Potential Investments

[TheGreek]

I was made redundant recently and have some money tucked away which is earning me 0.5% interest currently. I was thinking that it may be better invested by buying something and tucking it away for a few years. I did this recently with a Wal but this didn't go as well as I'd liked - I'm convinced I paid too much..so I'm looking at other potential purchases. The obvious answer would be to buy the oldest Fender I could afford and stick it in the loft. However since collectable Fenders are already expensive I was wondering what others would buy and tuck away as an investment.

[Cat Burrito]

Personally I'd always go for a Fender as I'd play it at home. I don't think the market is as stable as people think & there is no guarentee these basses will rise much more....never say never though

[Marcus]

Old Chinese Proverb.

The best time to plant a tree was 10 years ago... the next best time is today

Buy an old Fender 60's if ya can but 70's versions seem to have rocketed in the last 5 years, I knocked back a mint Ash / Maple 78 P for £500 5 years ago... damm !!

[OliverBlackman]

fenders arn't going to get younger so they probably will still go up in value as they become rarer. I think the difficulty is to find something thats both iconic, not mass produced and cheep. Wal's arn't incredibly iconic as an instrument, i think Alembic's and Fodera's are already to expensive. I would invest in pre CBS fender personally, but as a collectable it could do with being all original

[Wil]

If I were going to buy an instrument as an investment, I'd probably try and track down a really good 50s Les Paul. Guitarists seem to care slightly more about the vintage tone mojo stuff.

[mxm]

Marshall AFD100 (guitar head) - according to a guitarist friend, buy it and hide it away.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='TheGreek' post='1005479' date='Oct 29 2010, 05:13 PM']I was thinking that it may be better invested by buying something and tucking it away for a few years.[/quote]
You're absolutely right. It [b]may[/b] be. Your bet, because that's all it is really.

[Happy Jack]

It depends, mate, it depends.

[b]Geography[/b]

For very obvious reasons, the really good-quality vintage Fenders / Gibsons / Alembics will always be cheaper in the USA, just as the really good-quality vintage Wals / Goodfellows / Celinders will always be cheaper in Europe.

If you're planning to visit the States any time in the next year or so, buy a mint 70's Alembic while you're over and see if you can bring it back below the radar. If not, try and buy a mint 70's Wal but at a more competitive price.

[b]Cash[/b]

You must have noticed the number of really gorgeous basses sitting in the For Sale section. If you have cash, then it's a buyer's market. In most cases, "10% off for cash" is a realistic proposal, and the worst that can happen is that the vendor says "No".

That's especially true (IMHO and IME) on higher-end basses.

[b]Timing[/b]

All the indications are that 2011 will be the worst year of this recession, with no real signs of recovery before next Summer at the earliest. Xmas will leave a lot of people short of cash.

If you're going to buy one really superb vintage bass, do it next Feb/Mar.

[size=1][b]Terms and Conditions[/b]

The value of investments can go down as well as up. You should seek independent advice from an IFA before making any investment. Your marriage may be at risk if you don't keep up with the payments. Don't bother quoting me on any of this if it all goes horribly wrong later. I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove anything. My brother is bigger than your brother.
[/size]

[essexbasscat]

Just a thought. If you do stash a bass away, avoid the loft ! the temperature and humidity goes up, down and every which way, which can turn a nice playing neck into a twisted banana. Investment then = loss

[Musicman20]

60s Fender...with all the trimmings (case and documents). Hide it away and play it on Sundays

Mind you, personally despite the fact I have yearned for a 60s Fender for years, Id never pay the asking price purely because im so fussy and id never find one im happy with!

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1005562' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:18 PM']Just a thought. If you do stash a bass away, avoid the loft ! the temperature and humidity goes up, down and every which way, which can turn a nice playing neck into a twisted banana. Investment then = loss [/quote]

+1
I'd go for Musicman20's theory of a 'Sunday best' bass along the lines of a late 50's/early to mid 60's Fender bass.

Good luck!
Jon

[lojo]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1005574' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:22 PM']60s Fender...with all the trimmings (case and documents). Hide it away and play it on Sundays

Mind you, personally despite the fact I have yearned for a 60s Fender for years, Id never pay the asking price purely because im so fussy and id never find one im happy with![/quote]

Id love to own a fender from my year of birth (69), what would that cost me ?

[wesfinn]

buy a few really good condition early JV squiers.

[lee650]

[quote name='wesfinn' post='1005617' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:59 PM']buy a few really good condition early JV squiers.[/quote]

+1 these are fantastic basses, i will keep mine forever, probably wont be worth anything though as ive messed about with it too much

[tino]

[quote name='TheGreek' post='1005479' date='Oct 29 2010, 05:13 PM']I was made redundant recently and have some money tucked away which is earning me 0.5% interest currently. I was thinking that it may be better invested by buying something and tucking it away for a few years. I did this recently with a Wal but this didn't go as well as I'd liked - I'm convinced I paid too much..so I'm looking at other potential purchases. The obvious answer would be to buy the oldest Fender I could afford and stick it in the loft. However since collectable Fenders are already expensive I was wondering what others would buy and tuck away as an investment.[/quote]
Dont hang me BUT

A bas is not you best bet

A nice early 70's LP custom is going to appreciate faster than a 70's Fender bass...................and its a buyers market....especialy if you are willing to import from the States..
Just bought a 1934 Gretsch acoustic in VGC with original hardcase...USA $900.......whats it worth in the UK...possibly double and a bit A 66 Mosrite for $600 again in fine condition......these make silly money here....Why I have no Idea

Gibbos are a Safe bet.....can I sell you one maybe????lol

[purpleblob]

Sorry to hear about your redundancy. I'm sorry but I'm going to repeat something I wrote on a previous, similar thread.

Bass guitars do not generally offer a good return on your investment. Certainly not in the long term, unless...

1. You can get an old Fender (and I'm no expert of Fenders so don't ask me which model or which year ) at a really good price or
2. If you come by some very special bass, i.e. the equivalent of a Hendrix strat. again at a good price, then there's potential for making some good profits from the sale.
3. Or finally if you can find a make (like a Wal) that you can pick up at a good price now, that has relatively small production runs and that will become highly sought after in 10 years time - and no, I don't have the answer to which instrument might match this criteria sadly

Ofcourse the other alternative is simply buying and selling instruments, i.e. picking up a bass (any bass) for a price lower than you think you can sell it, then selling it asap to make a small return quickly. Problem with this is that you need to know what's a good price and what's going to sell and in the current climate it might not be so easy to offload. Obviously the longer you're stuck with an instrument which isn't appreciating in price the less your profits over time.

(Disclaimer: I am not an investment expert so everything I've said could be rubbish ).

Edited October 29, 2010 by purpleblob

[DanOwens]

My issue would be keeping the instrument in a safe, secure and appropriate place. Temperature, humidity, risk of fire or theft; all of this would seriously concern me if I had potentially 1000s of pounds locked into one item.

If it was any other investment, you'd keep it safe somewhere other than your loft / living room.

Dan

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='Wil' post='1005498' date='Oct 29 2010, 05:26 PM']If I were going to buy an instrument as an investment, I'd probably try and track down a really good 50s Les Paul. Guitarists seem to care slightly more about the vintage tone mojo stuff.[/quote]

50's les pauls are more of a collection item than players guitar, the cost of them are already rediculous especially a goldtop.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='1005547' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:05 PM']It depends, mate, it depends.

[b]Geography[/b]

For very obvious reasons, the really good-quality vintage Fenders / Gibsons / Alembics will always be cheaper in the USA, just as the really good-quality vintage Wals / Goodfellows / Celinders will always be cheaper in Europe.[/quote]
70's fenders are reasonably priced in the states but the early 60's fenders are a lot more expensive there than here.

[quote name='wesfinn' post='1005617' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:59 PM']buy a few really good condition early JV squiers.[/quote]

Yes they will be more collectable but the room for profit will be a lot less compared to that of a 60's fender. Of course the more you invest the higher the risk

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='blackmn90' post='1005866' date='Oct 29 2010, 10:42 PM']70's fenders are reasonably priced in the states but the early 60's fenders are a lot more expensive there than here.[/quote]

I didn't know that (obviously).

Can't think of a good reason for that to be the case ... do you have any idea?

[OliverBlackman]

Sorry didnt mean to come across offensively i don't know actually, i just spend too much time looking at old fenders (n)

[bassbloke]

I would agree with the comments suggesting you invest in some vintage les pauls. Twice in the past few years I've been in a music shop and seen a middle aged father and son walk into the shop, ask to have a quick play on a very expensive Les Paul and, within 5 minutes, whip out a credit card and buy it, without haggling on price or extras.

[Bassnut62]

I would suggest don't try an be too clever about it. Firstly the big attraction in buying a beautiful instrument is to enjoy it right, i.e. play it? If it happens to be a good investment too, so much the better. Obviously sticking with well-appreciated names like Fender and Gibson will help for resale.

Personally I would rather own a good bass than some stocks or shares. Shares can evaporate before your eyes, but like property, a bass will still be a bass whatever the investment world does.

My own examples are buying a pre EB StingRay in about 83 for a fair price then, because I loved it. I have put stacks of mojo on it since. It is probably worth around 4 times what I paid for it now. I did the same with a pre CBS Precision in the mid 90s for a fair price back then, because it was a great bass and I have loved playing it. It is also probably worth 4 times what I paid for it now. My most recent purchase for love that is probably going the same way is an early G&L Asat Bass about 6 years ago for about £500. Turns out mine is a signature model too - didn't realise! I just thought it was a great bass from a class A designer (Leo Fender). This is already moving well in the right direction as an investment. Seriously though I bought none of these basses as investments and I don't think of them as such either.

I would say that any bass that you want to see appreciate well would have to be all original, in desirable colours and woods and be a top of the line model, ie. US built for American instruments, preferably with original case and tags if poss.

So my current tip for a good investment is G&L. A lot of people don't know that they are basically the best ever Fenders and therefore their second hand prices are still relatively low. I reckon that in 10 years time the rest of the market will have caught up and realised what great instruments they are and their prices will rocket. If poss get one made before Leo Fender died in his workshop at G&L I believe in about 93.

[Vibrating G String]

If you want to invest in instruments and make money buy wholesale and sell retail. For the price of a good pre cbs bass you could buy 200 of your own design from China. Mark it up like a KSD or Skyline and see your profit right away. Call now operators are standing by.

But buying your favorite toys and calling them investments is just kidding yourself. A good index fund like SPY or MDY will give you a better chance of a good return with out a miracle needing to be fulfilled for a profit to be realized.

An instrument means you have to profit more than the cost of storage, probably shipping twice, insurance, maybe an appraisal. That could be 1/3 of the instrument price just to break even and you have to hold it a long long time. You can be seriously burned if down the road someone points out it's had a refret or someone changed the capacitor. Since every transaction includes the risk of losing everything in shipping you have to factor that in.

But if you insist on instruments what kind of return in what timeframe do you hope to achieve? You have to rule out any new bass and only buy used. Don't buy anything that's already expensive which means no Fenders. Buying a Fender is buying high in the market hoping it goes super high. A bass that has increased in value in the 400% range over the last few years was the Peavey T40 beating any Fender. Another plus side to buying cheap basses is you're not going to be burned by fakes.

Buying a consumer item that in general devalues and hoping to get one that defies the norm is a bet stacked against you.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Bassnut62' post='1006029' date='Oct 29 2010, 11:44 PM']Personally I would rather own a good bass than some stocks or shares. Shares can evaporate before your eyes, but like property, a bass will still be a bass whatever the investment world does.[/quote]It's funny how we give completely contradictory advice That says something about the value of free internet financial advice.
[quote]I would say that any bass that you want to see appreciate well would have to be all original, in desirable colours and woods and be a top of the line model, ie. US built for American instruments, preferably with original case and tags if poss.[/quote]
I feel you should buy the bottom of the line line as the greatest increase in Fender prices has been seen on the entry level models like teles and strats and not the top of the line jaguars and jazzmasters. It's the peoples instruments that inspire nostalgia.

[FlatEric]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1006040' date='Oct 30 2010, 08:07 AM']Don't buy anything that's already expensive which means no Fenders. Buying a Fender is buying high in the market hoping it goes super high.
A bass that has increased in value in the 400% range over the last few years was the Peavey T40 beating any Fender. Another plus side to
buying cheap basses is you're not going to be burned by fakes.[/quote]

Aha, at last - recognition for the once forgotten T-40.

One of the first I bought was £180 - still got it - and as mentioned above, a lot of time and money goes into
making fake Classic Fenders, with genuine buyers being caught out.
I have never seen a fake T-40!

Just look at them - how could you not like them?

Purely a matter of taste, I guess - if we all loved the same thing, what a dull place it would be.

[attachment=62520:T_40Sun.jpg]

[attachment=62521:T_40Sun1.jpg]

If you could find a sub £200 T-40, these days, it wouldn't look anything like these two - times have moved on.


Cheers.