Basses as Potential Investments

[tom1946]

I watch out for stuff coming on ebay, like the rest of this forum probably
I recently bought a Squier Protone for half of what a dealer is selling one, for but only found it 1hour after it had been listed with a BIN because I was up at stupid oclock in the morning.

A lot of it is being in the right place at the right time.

[LukeFRC]

I think vibrating G string makes a good point.
There are basses that you think will only get more desirable as time goes on and the price go up.
The T-40 being an example,

Also thought of....
JV squier- a large fender logo 57 p bass sold on ebay the other day for over a grand! I have one!
Pre EB stingray
pre 93 warwick, i also have one!

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1006067' date='Oct 30 2010, 01:16 AM']Also thought of....
JV squier-[/quote]
Ooh, I'd like to change my no Fender advice. The Japanese squiers from the '80s have gone way up in price. Back in the '80's they were known as the secret Fender bargain. Now there's a few Squiers that are getting raved about for quality and tone. They're dirt cheap and plentiful enough that in 10 or 15 year lots of people will be saying they wish they never sold theirs. The people buying them now are often in there teens and twenties and will be moving into disposable income in the coming years while the current rage of pre cbs guitars may be coming to an end like their expensive predecessors, accordions and clarinets.

And I bought my T40 for $100 in 1986. I modded it so much I literally only had the neck left in the end which will hurt the collector value.

I once saw a post, on talkbass I think, where someone compared buying vintage fenders new versus putting that money in the S&P 500 in the stock market and the stocks did much better.

[Schnozzalee]

Just play the crap out of em all I say, what will be will be but at least you got your moneys worth.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1006089' date='Oct 30 2010, 09:56 AM']I once saw a post, on talkbass I think, where someone compared buying vintage fenders new versus putting that money in the S&P 500 in the stock market and the stocks did much better.[/quote]

not recently i guess!!!

you take a punt I guess. You know your stuff and take a gamble. The JV I have was my dream bass (well I actually wanted one with the large squire logo, to be counter cool, oh well) and I spent more than I really had at the time on it to get it, but with a hunch that it would be worth more in a year than I had. Turned out ok, I got an amazing bass and the seller got a good price for it!
Like warwicks and the early ones. At the moment you can pick up an 80's early 90's neck through warwick for about the price of a new meixican fender. Now are they worth that little, no of course not, warwick as a brand are still respected, the early stuff is so well made so you would have thought the price can only go up.
But again like the JV, I bought as it was the best bass I could get for the money- not because it was an investment.
If I had to sell and could only get £200 for it in ten years time, that would be fine as I bought it as an instrument not an investment.

[wateroftyne]

I got in there when the TV-era Fenders were the 'next big thing'. I'll probably do OK in the long run (at least doubled in value in six or seven years already), but if not it's not the end of the world. I bought them because I like them.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1006117' date='Oct 30 2010, 02:29 AM']not recently i guess!!![/quote]
No it was a while ago but judging from my investments and the prices of guitars going down I think the stock market is still outperforming guitars as an investment.

The average return for the S&P 500 since the 1950's is around 10.8%. That means the investment doubles around every 6 to 7 years or so. The average guitar collector has done much worse. Sure there's individual anecdotes of some doing much better but if you choose investments based on best case scenario then the lottery is your best bet

Yet another thing to consider with guitars as investments is you have to put in a lot of time. If you assign an hourly value to your time spent on the hobby you might see how little your time is actually generating.

When I look at the prices of my collection I see increases as simply reducing the cost of my hobby and not so much as income.

[Mr Fudge]

Yes ... I have had some major GAS the last few days and seriously thought about investing a few bob in a bass that would not depreciate. I suppose the ultimate would be a 70's Jazz with block inlays. Yes, I am a bit of a slut for that kind of thing. However after having a very pleasant 20 minutes with a Rick 4003 yesterday I'm thinking buy one or these new and keep it for years and play the thing most weeks as well.

Everybody will be happy.

[pantherairsoft]

I think you never know. When Ibanez released the Afirma as a limited edition it wasn't high priced, but unlike there other limited editions it now fetches more than it cost. Maybe because it was unusual. Ibanez's prestige stuff, made of luxury woods etc devalue quick… You never know. I think something mid-priced, and a little out of character, the kind of thing that might not take off and then disappear soon is a better bet!

Thats one reason I just bought an Ibanez SR2010ASC Ashula. Unusual and a mid-priced limited edition.

[lojo]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1005859' date='Oct 29 2010, 09:38 PM']My issue would be keeping the instrument in a safe, secure and appropriate place. Temperature, humidity, risk of fire or theft; all of this would seriously concern me if I had potentially 1000s of pounds locked into one item.[/quote]


Same concerns applies to funds

[jjojjas]

I'd be more likely to buy less valuable items....but buy several of them. Not a huge fan of putting all your faith in one investment, particuarly such a fickle one like a vintage bass. Guitars seem to bring better cash (guess there are more guitarists?). I know a guy (husband of one of the women who works for me) who has 10 or 11 les Pauls. Whilst he plays them (occassionally...then polishes them) he does seem to have made a decent investment, even now they are worth more than the total outlay over the last 10 years of buying them, but he expects to cash in in another 30 years. Its a long term gamble, but I reckon its better than the single bass idea.
I'm doing something similar with old vespa's. But I tend to buy what I will use/play as well.
Good luck
Jas

[warwickhunt]

Buy something you like/love because at the end of the day it is a gamble, you may as well stick your money in Premium Bonds... not saying they are a good 'investment' but your money is still your money (less inflation) and you have a chance to win more money; in fact a chance to win a LOT more money that an investment instrument!

To expand on the gamble analogy. Who knows what particular instrument will be worth more in years to come, maybe Fenders, Gibbos, Alembis, Warwicks, Squier CV's, who knows but the worst thing is that even if you buy the right instrument (i.e. vintage Fender), what happens if the body develops a split, it falls off a stand when you are admiring it, pick-ups corrode, the case you have it stored in has some epoxy resin/glue that reacts with the paint finish! Never mind investment, your initial savings are up the creek.

Just out of interest, what sort of return are you hoping for over what period of time? 5% would be pretty damn good I'd say; so if you bought a £3000 bass in a years time it'd be worth £3150 so you've made £150 profit... with the potential that your investment has gone down 5% and you've lost £150. In the meantime a bloke on eBay has bought a cheap Squier/Encore bass for £70, cleaned it and put a Fender sticker on it and sold it (as a declared fake) for £140... he's had a bit of fun messing about with guitars, made £70 in a week and with little real gamble made 100% profit from his investment. Which one makes more sense if you are talking 'investment' and 'profit'? Does anybody now want to start talking other ways of investing money; stocks and shares etc.

If you want to talk investment and profit rather than musical instruments for pleasure (as WoT has described his 'investment'), there are many and varied ways of making money.

Buy something you [u]want[/u]!

[NJE]

I never saw this thread first time around and it makes for some interesting reading.

I have been thinking about the whole 'investment' bass and what will retain or grow in value recently and I am looking around for what brands and instruments will keep their money and wondering what is the vintage Fender of the future?

The reason I ask is that I have been looking at the secondhand value of some of the high end custom guitars available like Sei, Overwater and GB and secondhand they make nowhere near their original price. I have an Overwater and have been looking to buy a GB Spitfire. I have seen one that was a show piece which would have been the best part of 3k new up for sale in immaculate condition for £1300 which to me is rediculous.

I would love a custom bass built to my spec but I know at some point I am liable to get into a financial situation or get bored and need to sell it at some point and the thought of losing over half the original price seems quite scary. Yes you should have an instrument you love and play and enjoy without doubt, but would I be better of investing in something like a limited run Fender Custom Shop? They seem to hold their value quite well and seem to be in demand. Similarly I have seen NYC Sadowskys go for high prices secondhand.

Are custom shop Fenders and Sadowskys more likely to hold value? is ther another brand like Alleva Coppollo that will be a future classic? I know Wal's go for silly money but are they likely to go up any more now that they are being built again?

Who knows but interesting to hear peoples point of views on the subject.

[BigRedX]

You've got to remember that in the 90s Wals went through a period where you could hardly give them away, so all those basses that you think are underpriced now could well get to a similar status in the next 20 years, if they become directly associated with a memorable musician or two and production has ceased.

What you do need though for this to happen is a consistency between the instruments of the same model. This is why I don't think that something like Sei will ever be as desirable from a collectors PoV as Wal, because each instrument is just too individual.

[Truckstop]

If I had a grand to invest in something, I'd buy a first edition book or two and then sell them on in 10 or 20 years. Books are guaranteed to improve in price.
Even better, live in a cupboard and keep a diary and then sell that on in 20 or 30 years!

Truckstop

[Rich]

I'm hoping my Wal Pro IIE will turn out to be a good investment. I paid £330 back in 1986, I think it might be worth a bit more than that by now

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='Rich' post='1026877' date='Nov 17 2010, 05:57 AM']I'm hoping my Wal Pro IIE will turn out to be a good investment. I paid £330 back in 1986, I think it might be worth a bit more than that by now [/quote]
A straight up investment in the S&P 500 of £330 in 1986 would be valued somewhere around £4500 now (quick math loosely based on averages) I feel when considering something an investment you can't compare it to what you paid for it but but the performance of another investment you could have made instead.

You'll often hear investment advice along the lines of invest in something you know, pick stocks of companies you deal with etc... I think you should never invest in things you can be emotionally involved with as it leads to bad financial decisions. That's how I see it.

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1027383' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:15 PM']I feel when considering something an investment you can't compare it to what you paid for it but but the performance of another investment you could have made instead.[/quote]

Definitely. If you really want a bass but think you might sell in future and fancy recouping your cash, then get an old Fender. Otherwise, your gamble will have better odds of a great return investing elsewhere. Having said that, if I could find a 1981 gold on gold jazz at a decent price and could afford it, they've got to be future classics! That one that's always on ebay is lovely but just too expensive. In ten years though, they'll be 'worth' the asking price.