Drummers with no kick

[flyfisher]

A priceless comment from our drummer at rehearsal last night when asked to set the right time by providing a lead-in using the kick drum: "[i]I don't usually use the bass drum[/i]".

The ensuing silence was no doubt the combined diplomatic restraint of the rest of us resisting the temptation to shout "[i]yes, we know, that's the f*cking problem[/i]".

Oh dear - bands and mates. Can the two ever happily coexist?

[daz]

He will be telling you he doesnt do drum solo's next. Get rid of him hes obviously a pod person who has taken over your usual drummer.

Edited October 29, 2010 by daz

[Spoombung]

Oh c'mon guys.

You absolutely [i]do not[/i] need a kick drum in a drum kit! Latin music's done without it for decades. It's a monumentally useless, unnecessary drum.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='1005649' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:22 PM']Oh c'mon guys.

You absolutely [i]do not[/i] need a kick drum in a drum kit! Latin music's done without it for decades. It's a monumentally useless, unnecessary drum.[/quote]

very funny. I remember at one band practice I didn't bother playing the kick drum, just to see if anyone would notice. I actually don't think they did...

Edited October 29, 2010 by EdwardHimself

[skej21]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='1005649' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:22 PM']Oh c'mon guys.

You absolutely [i]do not[/i] need a kick drum in a drum kit! Latin music's done without it for decades. It's a monumentally useless, unnecessary drum.[/quote]


And if he isn't playing the bass drum, you won't have the classic problem of trying to tie-in with a continually changing bass drum rhythm! Hurray!

Tell him never to play it and provide that THUD with your fingers

Edited October 29, 2010 by skej21

[risingson]

Honestly I'm lost for words. It's like a bass player saying 'oh sorry, I don't really use my E string that much'.

[lojo]

Well it saves 2 trips to the car park each gig

[mep]

Don't drummers usually use their sticks to give a lead in?

[JTUK]

Call me old fashoned..I couldn't be doing with that.

[thodrik]

[quote name='risingson' post='1005660' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:38 PM']Honestly I'm lost for words. It's like a bass player saying 'oh sorry, I don't really use my E string that much'.[/quote]

Peter Hook?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='lojo' post='1005668' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:50 PM']Well it saves 2 trips to the car park each gig [/quote]
Oh no, he has got a bass drum, just doesn't seem to use it. I suppose he needs it for fixing the toms.

[crez5150]

[quote name='thodrik' post='1005683' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:02 PM']Peter Hook?[/quote]

[TimR]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1005612' date='Oct 29 2010, 06:51 PM']A priceless comment from our drummer at rehearsal last night when asked to set the right time by providing a lead-in using the kick drum: "[i]I don't usually use the bass drum[/i]".

The ensuing silence was no doubt the combined diplomatic restraint of the rest of us resisting the temptation to shout "[i]yes, we know, that's the f*cking problem[/i]".

Oh dear - bands and mates. Can the two ever happily coexist?[/quote]

Is this the same drummer you wrote about that had no stamina?

[flyfisher]

[quote name='skej21' post='1005655' date='Oct 29 2010, 07:30 PM']And if he isn't playing the bass drum, you won't have the classic problem of trying to tie-in with a continually changing bass drum rhythm! Hurray![/quote]

Yep, 'locking on' is not a problem.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive. I used to play drums (still have a kit set-up at home for the occasional thrash) but I never considered myself good enough to play in a band. I could maintain a good rhythm but my fills were not 100% reliable and I was paranoid about not getting back spot-on the beat. Obviously I was worrying far too much.

Again, it might just be me, but even when I drum along to CDs I find it takes a fair bit of concentration to keep really tight, whereas our drummer seems far too relaxed to me and I get the impression he's just following everyone else, which means things drift.

There surely has to be a single point of rhythm reference and I've always thought of that as being the kick drum. That's the drummer's key responsibility isn't it? Not that I'd ever claim to have a lot of live experience, but 4 bands spread over 6 playing years (excluding the schooldays) with a reasonable number of gigs ought to have taught me something I reckon.

I recall an old joke or anecdote about a British wartime bomber aircraft (a Wellington?) being described as 5,000 rivets flying in a loose formation and I reckon that's a good simile for the band in question. Not so much one band as five individuals playing the same songs.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='TimR' post='1005697' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:15 PM']Is this the same drummer you wrote about that had no stamina?[/quote]
I have mentioned it before, but I don't recall stamina being a problem as such. Being a bit too relaxed perhaps.

And yes, like many things we tend to avoid confronting, I know what the ultimate answer is but the 'mates' angle complicates things and the gigs we do play seem to go down well enough for us to be asked back. But it's becoming increasingly frustrating and I know we could do better.

[skej21]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1005715' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:27 PM']Yep, 'locking on' is not a problem.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-sensitive. I used to play drums (still have a kit set-up at home for the occasional thrash) but I never considered myself good enough to play in a band. I could maintain a good rhythm but my fills were not 100% reliable and I was paranoid about not getting back spot-on the beat. Obviously I was worrying far too much.

Again, it might just be me, but even when I drum along to CDs I find it takes a fair bit of concentration to keep really tight, whereas our drummer seems far too relaxed to me and I get the impression he's just following everyone else, which means things drift.

There surely has to be a single point of rhythm reference and I've always thought of that as being the kick drum. That's the drummer's key responsibility isn't it? Not that I'd ever claim to have a lot of live experience, but 4 bands spread over 6 playing years (excluding the schooldays) with a reasonable number of gigs ought to have taught me something I reckon.

I recall an old joke or anecdote about a British wartime bomber aircraft (a Wellington?) being described as 5,000 rivets flying in a loose formation and I reckon that's a good simile for the band in question. Not so much one band as five individuals playing the same songs.[/quote]

Most of the really good drummers I play with have some form of metronome ticking over in their ear... even at live gigs which means they're always tight and things don't drift.

The good drummers I play with also don't change their drum bass rhythms. Fair enough, someof them make it complex/interesting, but it's consistent which is the important thing.

As for drummer jokes...

How do you know when the stage is level? The drummer drools from both sides of his mouth

[lojo]

[quote name='TimR' post='1005697' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:15 PM']Is this the same drummer you wrote about that had no stamina?[/quote]

Better not look at what he is writing about you on the drummers forum then

[JTUK]

[quote name='skej21' post='1005729' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:36 PM']Most of the really good drummers I play with have some form of metronome ticking over in their ear... even at live gigs which means they're always tight and things don't drift.

The good drummers I play with [b]also don't change their drum bass rhythms[/b]. Fair enough, someof them make it complex/interesting, but it's consistent which is the important thing.[/quote]


Can't be doing with that either..

If we have agreed the way something goes beforehand, I don't like someone to forget or go off on one just for the sake of it. I make
the disctinction between that and trying something on the hoof to make it work better...but only if it works better...ha ha !!

Fine line, admittedly.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='lojo' post='1005732' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:37 PM']Better not look at what he is writing about you on the drummers forum then[/quote]

[skej21]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1005748' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:45 PM']Can't be doing with that either..

If we have agreed the way something goes beforehand, I don't like someone to forget or go off on one just for the sake of it. I make
the disctinction between that and trying something on the hoof to make it work better...but only if it works better...ha ha !!

Fine line, admittedly.[/quote]

I think you may have misread my last post.

I said most of the good drummers I know DO NOT change their drum beat rhythms, making them easy to predict and lock in with. As in, they keep bar 1-4 the same as bar 4-8... Instead of the poorer drummers I've played with who change their mind every four bars and make it impossible to lock in with!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='skej21' post='1005729' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:36 PM']Most of the really good drummers I play with have some form of metronome ticking over in their ear... even at live gigs which means they're always tight and things don't drift.[/quote]
Funny you should mention that - I've thought about suggesting it but was worried it would be a bit controversial. I've even wondered about programming my drum machine with a bass only beat and feeding it into the PA. Both might work and would also be a good way of being more consitent with the BPMs we actually play to.

I've heard of recording studios using click-tracks, but never in a live context. Is it really that widespread? It would certainly help soften the task of raising the issue

Edited October 29, 2010 by flyfisher

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='skej21' post='1005729' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:36 PM']Most of the really good drummers I play with have some form of metronome ticking over in their ear... even at live gigs which means they're always tight and things don't drift.

The good drummers I play with also don't change their drum bass rhythms. Fair enough, someof them make it complex/interesting, but it's consistent which is the important thing.

As for drummer jokes...

How do you know when the stage is level? The drummer drools from both sides of his mouth [/quote]

I think if you practice along with a metronome enough you can get to the point where you don't need a click, unless you're playing with backing tracks or midi operated synths or sound/lighting effects live.

[JTUK]

ok.....guys who do that ( change it around ), don't last that long on the gig.

[skej21]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1005756' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:51 PM']Funny you should mention that - I've thought about suggesting it but was worried it would be a bit controversial. I've even wondered about programming my drum machine with a bass only beat and feeding it into the PA. Both might work and would also be a good way of being more consitent with the BPMs we actually play to.

I've heard of recording studios using click-tracks, but never in a live context. Is it really that widespread? It would certainly help soften the task of raising the issue[/quote]

My brother in law is a session drummer and has just come back from a European stadium tour as he plays with quite a famous band. He swears by his metronome because he is the first to admit that at live gigs (especially on such a large scale) the adreneline rush you get inevitably pushes you into speeding things up. It's a natural reaction that we all have, but when you're playing live gigs (particularly such important/large scale gigs) you want to sound as professional as possible.

This is where the metronome helps, as it overrides the drummer's adreneline and stops him/her from naturally speeding.
He uses this and mixes it into his in-ear monitors; [url="http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/DB-88/"]http://www.bosscorp.co.jp/products/en/DB-88/[/url]

It also helps to make the track lengths/set list duration consistant so you can plan sets more easily

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1005756' date='Oct 29 2010, 08:51 PM']Funny you should mention that - I've thought about suggesting it but was worried it would be a bit controversial. I've even wondered about programming my drum machine with a bass only beat and feeding it into the PA. Both might work and would also be a good way of being more consitent with the BPMs we actually play to.[/quote]

I think a lot of metal bands do just this...