Scales

[Phil-osopher10]

Hello, I'm pretty useless when it comes to music theory and I was wondering if anyone could help me out... How many scales are there on a bass guitar? is this a silly question? What do I need to do to improve my theory and be able to put that into practice?

[Doddy]

It depends how deep you want to go. I'm sure there are a lot of people that play who struggle with just a major scale,but if you want to get into them,there are alot of scales to use. Don't look at them as bass specific either-they are the same for all instruments. Find a good theory book or website and you will find plenty to study. Start with the major scale and the main minor scales (natural,melodic,harmonic) and then take it from there.

[purpleblob]

There are lots of different scales - checkout [url="http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php"]http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php[/url] on the right is a list of scales (some better known than others). Have fun with those

I'm not as well qualified as others on this site (I basically taught myself theory by reading books and writing literally hundreds of rolodex types cards out to show me scales, the intervals the notes etc). But what I'd suggest is that you start of with the major scale and then look into modes. From practising these you'll learn to hear what different sounds are like when combined as well as improve your technique etc. Once you feel confident playing the major scale and the modes, then I'd suggest moving onto chord theory (at least at a basic level of understanding) and then branch out into the wide world of the more exotic scales.

As Doddy mentioned, don't look at this as solely bass oriented, music theory is music theory whatever instrument you are using.

Good luck

[Bilbo]

Major
Minor
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Diminished
Augmented
Major Pentatonic (relates to Major Scale)
Minor Pentatonic (relates to Minor Scale)
Blues Scale.

Pretty much everything else comes out of those.

[dan670844]

[quote name='Phil-osopher10' post='1006147' date='Oct 30 2010, 11:06 AM']Hello, I'm pretty useless when it comes to music theory and I was wondering if anyone could help me out... How many scales are there on a bass guitar? is this a silly question? What do I need to do to improve my theory and be able to put that into practice?[/quote]


+1 to what doddy says but here is my crappy advice for scales on the bass!

I would start with the major scale, you must know it, the modal scales are made from it and its a reference point.

from a playing point of view the pentatonic major (playing over major chords) and minor scale (minor chords) are the most usual for fills and twiddly bits after that mixolydian and dorian

I have prob cofused the hell out of you........

but heres a secret of learning the scales and modes on a bass

1. Learn the C major scale on the 8th fret
2. all the modal scales dorian, phygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolin, locrian modes are made from the same notes i.e c d e f g a b c just in a different order.
3. the next mode to learn is dorian which begins with D on the 10th fret.
4. then Phygian E you can play it on the 12 th or the open strings.
5. next lydian mode begins with F on 1st fret or 13th fret
4 mixolydian 3rd fret on G
5 Aeolian mode or natural minor on the 5th begins with A
6 locrian mode B on the 7th
7. then back to C

SEE HOW THEY ALL FIT TOGETHER ONE FOLLOWS THE OTHER

These are interesting as they will help you to learn the fret board

The most common scales however that I use and for that matter most bass dudes

are

Pentatonic major (its your c major scale above but only using note 1 2 3 5 6 of the scale) you can move it up and down the neck the first note is the root, `i use this for fills and twiddly bits over major chords
Pentatonic minor (its like the A aeolian scale above but only using the 1 3 4 5 7 and the octave this is used for twiddlys over minor, minor 7th chords.
Dorian mode this is the D scale above use this over minor chords and minor 7th chords a more rocky sound
mixolydian the G scale mentioned above, i play over dominant 7th chords

the above represents my playing style there are many possibilities, of using certain scales over certain chords to make your groove. for example chris squire often uses the lydian mode over major chords for fills etc creates a bright melodic sound. Thats not me I am more forceful! play with it at rehearsals. Learn the chords of your songs "the changes"


cheers

D

PStwo scales i fogot that are important, which i dont use are the blues scale like the A aeolian mode i meantioned above but with a b5 and b7 added notes.
and the mixo blues scale with is the combined notes of the blues scale and the mixolydian

You are probably very confused, but the most useful book you can ever get is HAL LEONARD "bass scales finder" get it if they still print it, all will become clear

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1006752' date='Oct 30 2010, 09:04 PM']+1 to what doddy says but here is my crappy advice for scales on the bass!

I would start with the major scale, you must know it, the modal scales are made from it and its a reference point.

from a playing point of view the pentatonic major (playing over major chords) and minor scale (minor chords) are the most usual for fills and twiddly bits after that mixolydian and dorian

I have prob cofused the hell out of you........

but heres a secret of learning the scales and modes on a bass

1. Learn the C major scale on the 8th fret
2. all the modal scales dorian, phygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolin, locrian modes are made from the same notes i.e c d e f g a b c just in a different order.
3. the next mode to learn is dorian which begins with D on the 10th fret.
4. then Phygian E you can play it on the 12 th or the open strings.
5. next lydian mode begins with F on 1st fret or 13th fret
4 mixolydian 3rd fret on G
5 Aeolian mode or natural minor on the 5th begins with A
6 locrian mode B on the 7th
7. then back to C

SEE HOW THEY ALL FIT TOGETHER ONE FOLLOWS THE OTHER

These are interesting as they will help you to learn the fret board

The most common scales however that I use and for that matter most bass dudes

are

Pentatonic major (its your c major scale above but only using note 1 2 3 5 6 of the scale) you can move it up and down the neck the first note is the root, `i use this for fills and twiddly bits over major chords
Pentatonic minor (its like the A aeolian scale above but only using the 1 3 4 5 7 and the octave this is used for twiddlys over minor, minor 7th chords.
Dorian mode this is the D scale above use this over minor chords and minor 7th chords a more rocky sound
mixolydian the G scale mentioned above, i play over dominant 7th chords

the above represents my playing style there are many possibilities, of using certain scales over certain chords to make your groove. for example chris squire often uses the lydian mode over major chords for fills etc creates a bright melodic sound. Thats not me I am more forceful! play with it at rehearsals. Learn the chords of your songs "the changes"


cheers

D

PStwo scales i fogot that are important, which i dont use are the blues scale like the A aeolian mode i meantioned above but with a b5 and b7 added notes.
and the mixo blues scale with is the combined notes of the blues scale and the mixolydian

You are probably very confused, but the most useful book you can ever get is HAL LEONARD "bass scales finder" get it if they still print it, all will become clear[/quote]
cant add much except that book is really the place to start, which reminds me i should really start, daunting book as there are over 1000 scales but should cover everything.

[Stuart Clayton]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='1018817' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:18 PM']cant add much except that book is really the place to start, which reminds me i should really start, daunting book as there are over 1000 scales but should cover everything.[/quote]

I'm currently writing a book on scales and modes and what I consider to be the best way to go about learning them. This is a method that I've used in my own teaching for many years, and continue to follow with my classes at BIMM.

The best thing to do is to focus on the major scales. Start with C major - this is the easiest as it contains all the white notes on the keyboard - no sharps or flats. Learn this scale on one string, starting from lots of different places on the neck. Say the notes out loud as you do so. Then work on playing it over one octave in as many ways as you can find using all strings. Do not memorise fretboard patterns. The idea here is that you learn the CONTENT of the scale, not a pattern. Work on this until you're happy with it, then expand to two octaves.

In doing the C major scale you'll also have covered A minor as they are related - they contain the same notes.

Once you have C major and A minor covered, you can work on the next key, G major/Eminor. The order of keys is dictated by The Circle of Fifths.

Modes, harmonic and melodic minors, pentatonics, blues scales etc are ALL derived from the major and natural minor scale. If you learn these in detail first you will be off to a great start.

Hope that helps,
Stuart

Edited November 10, 2010 by Stuart Clayton

[Doddy]

[quote name='dan670844' post='1006752' date='Oct 30 2010, 09:04 PM']The most common scales however that I use and for that matter most bass dudes

are

Pentatonic major (its your c major scale above but only using note 1 2 3 5 6 of the scale) you can move it up and down the neck the first note is the root, `i use this for fills and twiddly bits over major chords
Pentatonic minor (its like the A aeolian scale above but only using the 1 3 4 5 7 and the octave this is used for twiddlys over minor, minor 7th chords.
Dorian mode this is the D scale above use this over minor chords and minor 7th chords a more rocky sound
mixolydian the G scale mentioned above, i play over dominant 7th chords

the above represents my playing style there are many possibilities, of using certain scales over certain chords to make your groove. for example chris squire often uses the lydian mode over major chords for fills etc creates a bright melodic sound. Thats not me I am more forceful! play with it at rehearsals. Learn the chords of your songs "the changes"


cheers

D

PStwo scales i fogot that are important, which i dont use are the blues scale like the A aeolian mode i meantioned above but with a b5 and b7 added notes.
and the mixo blues scale with is the combined notes of the blues scale and the mixolydian[/quote]

I'd like to clarify a couple of points if you don't mind,because I got a bit confused
Just going off the 'most common' scales that Dan mentioned......

The Minor Pentatonic is taken from the minor scale and uses chord tones 1,b3,4,5,b7 (eg. C,Eb,F,G,Bb). The blues scale is the same but with
an added flat 5... 1,b3,4,b5,5,b7 (C,Eb,F,Gb,G,Bb)

The Dorian mode is a minor scale with a raised 6.... 1,2,b3,4,5,6,b7 (eg C,D,Eb,F,G,A,Bb,C)

The Mixolydian mode is a major scale with a flattened 7..... 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7 (C,D,E,F,G.A,Bb,C)

Hope this makes sense. Any questions,just ask.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1006717' date='Oct 30 2010, 08:25 PM']Major
Minor
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Diminished
Augmented
Major Pentatonic (relates to Major Scale)
Minor Pentatonic (relates to Minor Scale)
Blues Scale.

[b]Pretty much everything else comes out of those.[/b][/quote]

What about the Hungarian minor?

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='silddx' post='1018941' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:18 PM']What about the Hungarian minor?[/quote]
It's a harmonic minor with a sharp fourth, is it not?

[Bilbo]

Don't know it. But I think it is, in any event, unhelpful at the stage the OP is at to start throwing in obscure variations that are not common currency.

Just looked it up. This scale is obtainable from the Arabic scale by starting from the fourth of that scale. Said another way, the C Hungarian minor scale is equivalent to the G Arabic scale. That's clear, then

There's the Neopolitan Minor

The Welsh Minor (deep and dirty)

[xilddx]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1018953' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:30 PM']It's a harmonic minor with a sharp fourth, is it not?[/quote]
Ah thanks.

And the Chilean Minor?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1018953' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:30 PM']It's a harmonic minor with a sharp fourth, is it not?[/quote]

A kind of bastardized Harmonic Minor/Blues Scale hybrid.....

[xilddx]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='1018955' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:31 PM']Don't know it. But I think it is, in any event, unhelpful at the stage the OP is at to start throwing in obscure variations that are not common currency.

Just looked it up. This scale is obtainable from [b]the Arabic scale [/b]by starting from the fourth of that scale. Said another way, the C Hungarian minor scale is equivalent to the G Arabic scale. That's clear, then

There's the Neopolitan Minor

The Welsh Minor (deep and dirty)[/quote]
This is what is hilarious about the Western music system (that's really Greek), it thinks there is only a single Arabic scale. It's a bit like reading Escoffier who only had a single curry sauce in his massive book of French classical recipes.

Anyway, I think it's probably time I starting learning a little theory again, to what end I'm not sure at the moment but i have periods of really wanting to understand more.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='silddx' post='1018956' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:31 PM']Ah thanks.

And the Chilean Minor?[/quote]
All scale degrees are diminished by about 2,300 feet.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1018970' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:38 PM']All scale degrees are diminished by about 2,300 feet.[/quote]
Genius!!