Learning Covers

[Marvin]

I'm not a very good player, but 6 weeks is a looooooooong time in anyone's book, especially if it's straightforward.

I had first practice last night, and I know for a fact that the other member of the rhythm section didn't put in much practice before hand. Must admit it threw me a little.

[EssentialTension]

At six weeks per song, it would take about three years before you had enough material for a common pub type two 45 minute sets. So the band would definitely split up before any gigs were done, wouldn't it?

[Wally]

Is it/they worth the aggro? You've stuck with them so far so maybe.

Video a rehearsal or two. invite em over, play it back to them. Diplomatically get them to analyze the performance standards to see if they can be self critical. If they see nothing wrong and don't feel the need to improve you have an answer.

If they see and desire the need to change then maybe quietly assume band leader role. The Bass player is often the bands glue even if they don't see it.

Take charge of distributing tabs if you can. (Try Guitar pro software with shareware tabs, the tab quality is easy to evaluate and song learning is quicker and easier). Be diplomatic and try get them to learn songs right before taking any artistic license. Artistic license should be by band consensus and an amount does need to happen (its a fine line though). Solo's don't need to be perfect but without the signature licks you’re on a loser (unless your lead is Hendrix reincarnated).

Add an extra regular rehearsal of just bass and guitars, minimal volume, practice amps on clean only and run through the weak songs. Insist upon doing this against the original a fair few times before doing it without. Get a song as good as possible before taking it to the drummer and singer for the polish.

Build set list from simple songs to more complex. Ditch songs that aren't improving quickly. You can revisit them later if wanted. Goal is get the band preforming a bunch of songs songs tightly and powerfully as quickly as possible coz the buzz of that really aids the motivation and sets a standard within the band.

Good luck fella. There is a valid experiance is hanging with a bad band and trying to improve them, but not for too long mind. P.S if anyone walks out in a hissy fit cos they won't join the team then once their gone, their gone. Do not invite them back. They have to plead. If it ends up with just you and the drummer say well thats plenty to build the new band from.

[lojo]

In one band I play with we have started to specify version

Often whoever chooses the song (its a very democratic band) may prefer the structure from a live version (some great ones on you tube) or parts which are not part of the radio version

So a specific version or structure sheet is needed to save time at run through and can be emailed


Example

Recently we did Blondie, Atomic

The versions on the original greatest hits has much less vocals than later edited versions and large instrumental and small breakdown/bass part

We combined the 2, to keep the breakdown, but increase the singing



Email is great and you can agree loads before spending money on rehearsal room time

[Lozz196]

In my last band it would be abt 6 weeks before it got to the point where I wasn`t embarrassed by what we were doing.

In my current band, 3 times round the song and its generally nailed.

I agree completely with those that have said you don`t learn songs at practice. You learn your own part prior, then you all practice the song together. Was a real eye-opener joining my current band, and seeing how quickly songs were picked up, really made me up my game.

[gjones]

Any new song should be learned (i.e. chord changes, stops starts, your part) before you get to the rehearsal stage. My advice is to make sure everybody (who needs it) has a chord chart in front of them so they have no excuses for mucking it up and wasting your time.

Playing music is fun but it's serious fun and you do need to put work and commitment into it. With a new band I always recommend having a gig booked so that there is a deadline to aim for. The nightmare of making a ballsup in front of an audience baying for blood because you haven't learnt the song properly is usuallly enough to concentrate the mind of the laziest musician.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1006790' date='Oct 30 2010, 10:02 PM']No probs about the thread hijack -all feedback is appreciated.

It looks like I'm not on my own regarding my predicament. We also have a situation where the smokers in the group go outside for extended breaks!! Our singer has to carry a folder full of lyrics even when gigging due to lack of trying to remember them.

What I really, really hate (apart from over loud drummers and guitarists) is when we're going over and over a song and there is nothing but guitarists hitting bum chords and notes right in my ear 'oles - it is nothing short of amateur. Plus when I am trying to sing backing vocals it is really annoying. Anyway, rant just about over!!

At least I know what we/they should be doing so I can now lay down some ground rules and work ethics and aim for a full set by Christmas![/quote]

Almost forgot, bloody guitarists "widdling" between songs, how much time does that waste, and how difficult does it make it to get any points across to the rest of the band?

[JTUK]

We normally make up a CD on potential songs that we may consider. We choose 4 or so to work on in our own time and then
rehearse them once just to check over sounds, key, BV's and general direction we want to take the song in.

If anything shows up in the rehearsal, we either fix it or ditch it as we will know by them if it is a song we can go with for the next gig.

We gig maybe 3 times a month and rehearse once a month maximum if we have any reason to.

For other gigs, I'll get the brief on the night and that is it.

[phil.mcglassup]

I too hate it when guitarists 'widdle' at high volume while I am discussing a point with the vocalist etc. Soooo amateur.

We had a rehearsal last night ready for the gig next weekend. What an abomination. Lots of time wasted plus the guitarists and vocalist will be taking their 'paperwork' with them on the night of the gig as they can't remember their parts!! They plan on taking a music stand to put their paperwork on during the gig. Even when rehearsing there were loads of 'bum' notes and chords being played loud in my lug 'oles even considering some of the songs have been worked on for the last six weeks or so.

Like I said before, I'm not note perfect but that is mainly due to playing without looking at the fingerboard and trying to look more competent and professional even though I will concentrate more on my left hand fingerwork on the night!!

Like has been suggested before, I'm now considering calling it a day with these clowns!! Would you?

[thepurpleblob]

It depends on the song - but a couple of rehearsals to nail it usually. I think there's a certain attitude/discipline to playing covers. Most players that are any good at it eventually get used to nailing a whole set in a couple of evenings. It's a skill in itself - spotting the bits that matter I suppose. It's only vaguely related to playing skill.

[phil.mcglassup]

The worst bit was explaining to one of the guitarists how to play a D minor chord !! Why is it that when I point out that someone is playing their part wrong that it looks like I'm fussing too much!!

Oh dear

[thepurpleblob]

I am banned from sayig, "but that's not how it is on the record"

[Doddy]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1007756' date='Oct 31 2010, 07:59 PM']Like I said before, I'm not note perfect but that is mainly due to playing without looking at the fingerboard and trying to look more competent and professional even though I will concentrate more on my left hand fingerwork on the night!![/quote]

Slightly diverting things,but purposely not looking at the 'board to try and look more competent and professional isn't a good idea-especially if you screw up. Just play normally,and as you get comfortable you will naturally be able to look away from your instrument.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1007870' date='Oct 31 2010, 09:26 PM']Slightly diverting things,but purposely not looking at the 'board to try and look more competent and professional isn't a good idea-especially if you screw up. Just play normally,and as you get comfortable you will naturally be able to look away from your instrument.[/quote]

+1000!!!

[steantval]

[quote name='4-string-thing' date='Oct 30 2010, 09:07 PM' post='1006758']
This is a bit of a sore point for me too.

One of the guitarists spends sunday afternoons learning stuff with another guitarist friend but quite often they'll learn stuff that we (our band) don't even play! Quite annoying as he could be using that time to learn songs we need to get sorted. He's also very hung up on learning things note for note, which I feel shows no creativity or originality.

The other guitarist doesn't seem to practice at home much, he expects the first guitarist to learn both parts, then show him how to play one of them.

The singer has to have lyric sheets on stage (not very professional, is it?) even though he's been singing these songs for at least 2 years.

One last moan about rehearsals, we rent a room for 2 hours a week. The guitarist and singer almost always turn up about 10 minutes late, take 20 minutes to set up/gossip etc. Then after 45 minutes go outside for a 10 minute smoke which means we actually play for between 70 and 90 minutes a week.

[size=4]I would not waste my time and effort playing with these tossers.[/size]

[phil.mcglassup]

Well I think I'm wasting my time!!

At least I am still allowed to say, "That's not how it is on the record!!" -How many pop tunes have screaming distorted overdriven guitar solos over the top?

And why oh why do guitarists 'widdle' the same old cliched riff from a an old classic that has been played to death, -the sort of riff that is banned from musical instrument shops? Maybe 'cos they can't play anything else!!

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1008148' date='Nov 1 2010, 08:48 AM']Well I think I'm wasting my time!!

And why oh why do guitarists 'widdle' the same old cliched riff from a an old classic that has been played to death, -the sort of riff that is banned from musical instrument shops? Maybe 'cos they can't play anything else!![/quote]

The laws that govern the universe say that they must!!

Edited November 1, 2010 by thepurpleblob

[neepheid]

The last time I was at this caper it was 24 songs in about 3 weeks and I know some people are faster but we didn't even manage to get the whole band together until the day of the gig. Everyone else in the band was way more experienced than I and was probably winging it. I kept my end up by obtaining an acoustic bass so I could practice in my lunch hour at work and at home was plonking away every spare minute I could grab.

Gig went great

I need to know that I've done my best. It reminds me of a time back at school when I was in recorder group. There was this one song I couldn't get my head round when practising at home, so when it came to the song I asked to be excused to go to the loo and waited outside until they were finished! What a coward! That's fine when you're in a group of people all playing the same thing, but obviously that won't wash in a band situation. I promised myself I would try my damnedest not to be in such a situation again

[Adrenochrome]

I'll admit that it can take my main band up to 6 weeks to nail a new song. However, we'll usually be learning about 3 new songs at a time, and they're not always that straightforward, eg how are we going to do the keyboard solos in Deep Purple's "Burn" when we're 2x guitar, bass and drums? Also all 4 of us can sing lead or backing vox, so we spend a fair amount of time on arrangements, particularly on who's actually gonna sing!

Of course learning should be done at home, and the bare bones of a song should be ready within a week.

[lojo]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='1008239' date='Nov 1 2010, 10:03 AM']The laws that govern the universe say that they must!![/quote]


Yes, they are programmed to fill any space that they find with noise, a break between songs is often mistaken for space that needs filling



re: the 6 weeks, yes we can nail a song with homework and one run through, but often this then takes a few gigs and more rehearsals to really become great, others get worse with time I guess also

Edited November 1, 2010 by lojo

[sk8]

We learn it off line an dwill pretty much nail a new song in 15 minutes. Not had that before but in my current band thats the stats. On a good night we can have 5 - 6 new songs pretty much there in 30 - 45 minutes

[fatback]

[quote name='Wally' post='1006832' date='Oct 30 2010, 10:47 PM']Is it/they worth the aggro? You've stuck with them so far so maybe.

Video a rehearsal or two. invite em over, play it back to them. Diplomatically get them to analyze the performance standards to see if they can be self critical. If they see nothing wrong and don't feel the need to improve you have an answer.

If they see and desire the need to change then maybe quietly assume band leader role. The Bass player is often the bands glue even if they don't see it.

Take charge of distributing tabs if you can. (Try Guitar pro software with shareware tabs, the tab quality is easy to evaluate and song learning is quicker and easier). Be diplomatic and try get them to learn songs right before taking any artistic license. Artistic license should be by band consensus and an amount does need to happen (its a fine line though). Solo's don't need to be perfect but without the signature licks you’re on a loser (unless your lead is Hendrix reincarnated).

Add an extra regular rehearsal of just bass and guitars, minimal volume, practice amps on clean only and run through the weak songs. Insist upon doing this against the original a fair few times before doing it without. Get a song as good as possible before taking it to the drummer and singer for the polish.

Build set list from simple songs to more complex. Ditch songs that aren't improving quickly. You can revisit them later if wanted. Goal is get the band preforming a bunch of songs songs tightly and powerfully as quickly as possible coz the buzz of that really aids the motivation and sets a standard within the band.

Good luck fella. There is a valid experiance is hanging with a bad band and trying to improve them, but not for too long mind. P.S if anyone walks out in a hissy fit cos they won't join the team then once their gone, their gone. Do not invite them back. They have to plead. If it ends up with just you and the drummer say well thats plenty to build the new band from.[/quote]

+1000 Very good advice there