Getting a rig that suits all my needs

[Apeneck Sweeney]

Hi all,

I'm looking for a bit of advice on amplification.


I mainly play double bass, primarily on jazz gigs. I also play in salsa bands with a Clifton UEB. I have a Acoustic Image Clarus I, a Euphonic Audio iAmp500 and a GK MB112 combo (with

the speaker removed as I couldn't get rid of a very loud cabinet rattle). I also have a Harke kickback 12 which I was using with the UEB due to problems with the EA (more on that later).

The Hartke tends to stay at home for practice use with my Fender Jazz and Kala bass Uke. For speakers I have an EA 210 and a MBX GK extention cab for the combo.

I bought the EA while working on bigger gigs with UEB. I ran into problems with blowing drivers. I spent some time with Lawrence at Overwater with all the gear and we came to the

conclusion that due to me hitting the bass pretty hard I was sending some spikes to the speakers that they were having trouble dealing with. This just made me nervous using the EA with

the UEB, though it sounds fantastic with the double. This left me with using the Hartke which I don't much like but I figured I could live with if the speaker blew (well more than the EA

anyway).


I recently started playing with another salsa band and due to limitations in the PA wasn't getting enough bottom end with the Hartke. I'm now putting the Clifton through a Fishman

Platinum Pro with the compressor turned up (which hopefully will save my EA210) going into the Clarus running the GK MBX & the EA210. I'm getting a much better sound now but

would like to find a combination of gear that suits all my needs and that doesn't clog up the hallway making it hard to get a double buggy past.


I've been going back and forth between getting a 15 to add to the 210 or getting another 210 to beef the sound up when I'm doing bigger gigs. I'm starting to lean towards getting a getting

a markbass 12 (either new york 112 or traveller 112h). The MBX is only 100W so I'm really pushing it more than I feel comfortable doing. I feel that a 12 would be good to use on the

majority of jazz gigs and I can add the 210 for bigger venues. I'm still a bit unsure about the iAmp and have been thinking about getting a Little Mark 3. The Clarus has spent some time in

amp hospital and I'd rather just have it as back-up amp - with the MB112 as a secondary back-up...OK, I'm a hoarder


So this long preamble (thanks if you're still with me) is leading up to a few questions.


1) which of the 2 markbass 12s sounds better or is more suited to my needs?

2) Has anyone else had similar problems with the iAmp500? (I think the compression might have sorted this out but I'm still a bit nervous)

3) How is the LittleMark for double bass?


Thanks.

[chris_b]

Markbass 112 cabs would be good for double bass and EUB. But then so would Aguilar GS112 and DB112 cabs.

I would get the larger Markbass cabs. I think the small ones don't sound as full.

A 500 watt amp and 2 112 cabs would be good for any practice, rehearsal or gig.

[fatback]

I'm no engineer, I can't see why you would blow drivers under normal conditions unless the amp was faulty.

I've heard very good things about EA tech support, maybe you should get it checked out?

As for cabs, i'm besotted with my BF Midget 1X12. Haven't used it with DB live yet, but it sounbds very warm and clear. With electric it's very very loud and takes up no room at all on stage, a big consideration with DB (and my reason for getting it).

Edited November 3, 2010 by fatback

[Delberthot]

I was able to do practically any gig with my Shuttle 6.0 and Schroeder 1212L with or without PA support. It was the ultimate compact, loud rig

[Apeneck Sweeney]

Thanks for the replies.

The Aguilars look good as do the Barefaced Midgets. I'm not sure if the Aguilar will be right as they're 300W. If I use them with the 210 then the EA will be running at 4 Ohm and hence 500W. I am a bit of an amp dullard so I may be getting this wrong

As for the drivers blowing under normal conditions....perhaps they weren't normal. The band I was working with were very loud on stage. I was having to compete with a guitarist, a Fender Rhodes player and a Hammond Organ player (with lesley speaker), drums, percussion, trumpet and 2 singers. I was lucky if I got to share a monitor. It was a bit of a nightmare being able to hear my intonation. I probably just over worked the amp. I recently sent the power amp to EA in the states as it had overheated when I did a gig and didn't notice they'd switched underfloor heaters on right below the amp They repaired it and checked it over so I guess i should try it again. I didn't think to mention the driver problem I'd had as I hadn't been using it for anything apart from double bass for a while.


edit: took so long writing reply that I missed Delberthot's post. I'd not heard of the Schroeders before but have now read some good reviews.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Apeneck Sweeney

[chris_b]

If your amp is rated at 500 watts at 4 ohm and you connect 2 8 ohm cabs (2 x 8 ohm = 4 ohm) then you'll be safe and, at full volume, each cab will get 250 watts.

You’ll probably get a better sound running 2 112 cabs rather than using the EA and another.

I doubt if you'll ever run a 500 watt amp any where near full. I play in some loud bands and I've never been close to half way on the volume.

[algmusic]

its sounds like you need the markbass 1x12 combo and an additional 12 for the bigger stuff.

If you're using PA the 1x12 should be fine, if not add it after you have a few gigs..

12's are made for DB's.. the 10's lack the warmth you get from the Db.. a 12 is on my list

Also of my friends use them..

[LawrenceH]

Blowing speakers repetitively is unusual if they're good quality and you're not putting too much heat through them in terms of watts. What were the speakers you blew, and how did they blow - was it mechanical damage or voicecoil burnout? I suspect that if it's one bass specifically that does it, then you have problems with EQ - too much low bass will shred speaker drivers. Perhaps the EUB has a bit of a frequency spike in it's output, maybe in an area where the EA is also a bit 'hot'?

I know this doesn't really answer the question you asked, but since you have the EA it seems annoying not to get to use it when it should do a perfectly OK job!

[Apeneck Sweeney]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1011543' date='Nov 4 2010, 12:48 AM']If your amp is rated at 500 watts at 4 ohm and you connect 2 8 ohm cabs (2 x 8 ohm = 4 ohm) then you'll be safe and, at full volume, each cab will get 250 watts.

You’ll probably get a better sound running 2 112 cabs rather than using the EA and another.

I doubt if you'll ever run a 500 watt amp any where near full. I play in some loud bands and I've never been close to half way on the volume.[/quote]

This answers a lot of questions that I really should have known considering how long I've been playing. Many thanks.

[Apeneck Sweeney]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1011554' date='Nov 4 2010, 01:29 AM']Blowing speakers repetitively is unusual if they're good quality and you're not putting too much heat through them in terms of watts. What were the speakers you blew, and how did they blow - was it mechanical damage or voicecoil burnout? I suspect that if it's one bass specifically that does it, then you have problems with EQ - too much low bass will shred speaker drivers. Perhaps the EUB has a bit of a frequency spike in it's output, maybe in an area where the EA is also a bit 'hot'?

I know this doesn't really answer the question you asked, but since you have the EA it seems annoying not to get to use it when it should do a perfectly OK job![/quote]

The speakers were the EA 210. I think I did 2 of them but not at the same time. I had one replaced then the other went. I can't answer the question about what kind of damage as I'm a bit clueless when it comes to the technical side of gear. Each time it wasn't major damage just a slight buzzyness (I think.......I had to get a second opinion and play my amp through a friends EA210 to compare).....a bit like when you're driving your car without the stereo on full for a change and you have a 'is that a new noise?' moment.

I think the freq spike on the Clifton was what we thought might be the problem. (just realized the common acronym is EUB and not UEB) I'm hoping the compression on the Fishman Plat Pro will sort that problem out.

[Apeneck Sweeney]

[quote name='algmusic' post='1011552' date='Nov 4 2010, 01:28 AM']its sounds like you need the markbass 1x12 combo and an additional 12 for the bigger stuff.

If you're using PA the 1x12 should be fine, if not add it after you have a few gigs..

12's are made for DB's.. the 10's lack the warmth you get from the Db.. a 12 is on my list

Also of my friends use them..[/quote]

I think I'm going to persist with the iAmp. I've been playing around with it this evening and it's such a nice sounding amp. Two 1x12s is getting a lot of support. Unfortunately my wallet isn't in a happy place at the moment. I think trying one and seeing how I get on with running it with the 210 on louder gigs until i can afford a second may be the way to go.

Thanks a lot for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

[fatback]

[quote name='Apeneck Sweeney' post='1011568' date='Nov 4 2010, 02:27 AM']I think I'm going to persist with the iAmp. I've been playing around with it this evening and it's such a nice sounding amp. Two 1x12s is getting a lot of support. Unfortunately my wallet isn't in a happy place at the moment. I think trying one and seeing how I get on with running it with the 210 on louder gigs until i can afford a second may be the way to go.

Thanks a lot for all the replies. I really appreciate it.[/quote]

If you go for the midget, you might not even need a second 12 apart from the loudest gigs. Mine with my EA Doubler is seriously loud. I'm gassing for a BF Compact 1X15 to go with mine, but I honestly don't know when I might really need it, if ever.

[chris_b]

If cash is short and you want to move on, try the Aguilar GS112 that's in the For Sale section. In my opinion they are the cheapest good 112 cab out there. You can save up for amother later.

[BobVbass]

I'm using an iAmp 800 and a barefaced super twelve these days for my DB and Bass Guitar through a platinum pro and (bloody) loud volumes - no problems at all - Alex uses the same eminence drivers in all his 12" Barefaced cabs so I don't think you'll have a problem.

[fretmeister]

Pod Pro XT; Powersoft power amp. Tecamp M212 cab

Everything you need.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='fatback' post='1011747' date='Nov 4 2010, 10:03 AM']If you go for the midget, you might not even need a second 12 apart from the loudest gigs.[/quote]

I'm intrigued by the idea of using a Midget for jazz and salsa gigs. Not that I (can) play either jazz or salsa, you understand.

To me (playing classic rock through an Orange Terror Bass head into a Midget) it just sounds so "rock" that it's never really occurred to me that it could sound suitable for other, gentler music styles.

That's my lack of imagination, rather than a criticism of either the cab or the suggestion.

[BassBod]

I've used the EA500, with Clifton EUB (Realist fitted) and EA cabs for about 6-7 years - no problems. The Clifton does have a wallop to the low end, but I hardly use any eq and I certainly never use the "deep" preset button.

My best guess is that you are boosting the lows and running the input gain fairly low and the output high? Maybe try upping the input and running the output as low as you can? The EA amps have a much more gradual approach to gain settings - I usually run the input around 75% and the output rarely goes beyond 50% (until recently I was using one / a pair of EA CXL 1x10's). But, as you increase the output beyond 50% it does really carry on getting louder...unlike most other amps I've used, which turn into fuzz boxes and heaters instead of getting any louder.

I thought I had blown the speaker on my CXL 112...but I used it again recently and it sounds fine. I was very disappointed that EA can't repair or replace the driver in those cabs any longer, so I went Barefaced midget. Early days, but so far its working well.

Another cab I'm very impressed with is the Bag End 1x15. Old fashioned and heavy(ish) but small and very musical. Used it on a loud bass guitar gig last week and it coped remarkably well.

[Apeneck Sweeney]

Thanks for the input everyone.

It's interesting to hear from someone with the same set up, Bassbod. I tend to steer clear of the deep button unless I'm playing very quietly and haven't used it with the Clifton since the first driver went (I'm not sure whether I was using it then or not. It was a while ago........no I remember, I did use it when I first got it
). It's good to hear you've not had any trouble. I'm gradually feeling happier using it. I do try to have the input highish and then bring the master up.

I had sort of leant towards the Bergantino 112 (poss the AE112 as it's lighter than the HT112) but hearing that the Barefaced sound good with DB as well has made me unsure again. (I must have spent 20+ hrs reading reviews and opinions on the various 12s out there) I wish the Midgets weren't so ugly (I know this is shallow and the least important characteristic but I was looking for any reason to narrow the field.)

[deepbass5]

People worry about overloading speakers with big Amps but over running a small amp into clipping will send square waves into a speaker. Your EA 2x10 can handle good clean power but not dirty square waves which have probably fried the coil. I would stick with the EA cab and Amp or a Markbass amp with the EA 2x 10. I wouldn't recommend mixing speakers of different makes. As they are ported differently and have different characteristics so you may find it difficult to eradicate annoying room frequency's on a gig. EA design cabs to get the best results science can reasonably allow and stay portable Mark Bass use rear Ports in their smaller cabs and these work in a totally different way, that’s why they are so small. Mark Bass front ported Cabs are Large just Like Eden for example and are heavy.
Hope that helps explain some things but sounds like you need two identical 12" cabs to use alone or together. Whatever your decide you can’t get away from the science that Bass usually means Big heavy boxes and lots of horse power to drive it. Mark Bass started a revolution in small amps and the Neo speakers are changing our lives now. so good luck.
I also love the EA sound for Jazz and small gigs, but love my LMK for most gigs as it fits my bass sound and is easy to set and play with no fuss.

[Apeneck Sweeney]

Thanks for your post deepbass.

I finally made a decision and took the plunge just before Christmas and drove down to Bass Direct in Warwick and bought myself a Bergantino HT112. I'm really happy with it and will try and get the money together for the Bergantino Ex112 to go with it....will then prob sell the EA 210.

Thanks again to everyone who offered their advice.