What would be louder

[Who's Who]

Ok, if I had a 500 watt head rated at 4ohm, would their be much differance in volume between running the following two options:

One 4x10 cab rated at 4ohm.

Or a 2x10 cab and a 1x15 cab, both rated at 8ohm (making it a 4ohm load).

Lets presume all kit is from the same range, and all the cabs would have planty enough power handling for the head.

Thanks

[xgsjx]

Been answered many times.

2 2x10 8 ohm cabs will be considerably louder & better quality than 1 4x10 4 ohm.

Have a look in the Impedance sticky, especially the last couple of pages.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1011274' date='Nov 3 2010, 03:53 PM']Been answered many times.

2 2x10 8 ohm cabs will be considerably louder & better quality than 1 4x10 4 ohm.

Have a look in the Impedance sticky, especially the last couple of pages.[/quote]Assuming the same drivers, same cab volume per driver and same tuning two 8 ohm 2x10 will be identical in output to one 4 ohm 4x10. The only difference is dispersion. If the two 2x10s are vertically stacked they will have twice the dispersion angle as one 4x10.
But the OP asked about one 2x10 plus one 1x15 compared to one 4x10. The answer is that one can't say, insufficient data. It would likely be close.

[keeponehandloose]

A single 15 pushes more air than 2x10s ,as it has more surface area,so 2x10 + 1x15 should seem louder

[Ian Savage]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1011306' date='Nov 3 2010, 08:22 PM']A single 15 pushes more air than 2x10s ,as it has more surface area,so 2x10 + 1x15 should seem louder[/quote]

I'd agree with this, and the mix of speakers SHOULD also give you a better balance of sound, but that'll depend to a large degree on what kind of sound you're after.

You've also then got the option of only lugging one cab to smaller gigs

[Protium]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1011306' date='Nov 3 2010, 08:22 PM']A single 15 pushes more air than 2x10s[/quote]

Not necessarily, a pair of 10" speakers with a high amount of excursion will push more air than a single 15" with poorer excursion.

[Dood]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1011306' date='Nov 3 2010, 08:22 PM']A single 15 pushes more air than 2x10s ,as it has more surface area,so 2x10 + 1x15 should seem louder[/quote]


[quote name='Ian Savage' post='1011308' date='Nov 3 2010, 08:28 PM']I'd agree with this, and the mix of speakers SHOULD also give you a better balance of sound, but that'll depend to a large degree on what kind of sound you're after.[/quote]

If the 2x10's sensitivity is much higher than the single 15, then 2x2*10's will be far more effective, because the 15 simply won't be loud enough. I found this with mixing a Hartke 4.5XL with a single 115XL. It was actually pointless using the 15, because the 4x10 tranched it in every way [i]especially[/i] bottom end. Two 4.5XLs though a very different story ;o) = a very nice one too!

[Noisyjon]

Depending on what type of music you play a pair of modern, sensitive and well tuned 15" cabs may be the ticket.
I do that and can honestly say the volume and power is breath taking from my setup.
The setup is MarkBass SA450>Barefaced Compact x2.

Good luck on your quest!
Jon

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' post='1011306' date='Nov 3 2010, 04:22 PM']A single 15 pushes more air than 2x10s ,as it has more surface area,so 2x10 + 1x15 should seem louder[/quote]
Surface area is a two dimensional measurement. Drivers operate in three dimensions.
The other comments by various posters all have some merit, but none are definitive as, to repeat, driver size alone is insufficient data. But if it was me I'd run a pair of 2x10s, the drivers vertically arrayed.

[Lozz196]

I`ll throw a spanner in the works here. What about one 4x12 4ohm cab?

I used to have an amp that kicked out 450 watts at 2 ohms, and used it with a 4x10 & 2x10, both 4ohms. Amp volume usually on 4/5. Changed to my 4x12 at 4ohms, so the amp now kicking out 280 watts at 4 ohms, amp volume on 2/3.

Surface area of a 4x12 is virtually the same as 6x10 (its about 97% - there was a thread on here how to work it out somewhere).

I`m sure the db rating of my new cab is higher, but the performance is great, and I`ve still only one (heavy) cab to wheel about, rather than two.

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1011435' date='Nov 3 2010, 10:16 PM']... But if it was me I'd run a pair of 2x10s, the drivers vertically arrayed.[/quote]

I'd seriously listen to this advice. Bill knows his stuff and it makes me wonder about my setup now...

[Conan]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='1011633' date='Nov 4 2010, 08:05 AM']I'd seriously listen to this advice. Bill knows his stuff and it makes me wonder about my setup now...[/quote]

Why? If you like the sound "and presumably the lightness) of your set-up, why change it?

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='Conan' post='1011637' date='Nov 4 2010, 08:14 AM']Why? If you like the sound "and presumably the lightness) of your set-up, why change it? [/quote]

Just interested in what's best really. Probably won't change my amp setup but certainly food for thought

[dincz]

In short, it's not just how much air you push but also how far you push it!

[ThomBassmonkey]

All things being equal (in terms of sensitivity etc) and a 15" will produce more volume than 2 10". It's never that simple though.

I prefer 10" speakers though, so it's a no brainer for me, I'd rather have the sound I preferred than a tiny bit more volume.

[fingerz]

This is impossible to give a straight answer to. There are many factors at work in a cabinet that effect the sound and how the speaker tone gets into the room. One thing that is going to be apparent in this general comparison between 2 vs 1 cabs is the SPREAD of the sound into the room - as there is flexibility to arrange the two cabs in different ways. This is NOT to say that two would be necessarily louder than one.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1011719' date='Nov 4 2010, 05:42 AM']All things being equal (in terms of sensitivity etc) and a 15" will produce more volume than 2 10". It's never that simple though.

I prefer 10" speakers though, so it's a no brainer for me, I'd rather have the sound I preferred than a tiny bit more volume. [/quote]+1, and 'tiny bit' hits the nail on the head. Using a pair of tens versus one fifteen, with the same excursion and fed with the same power, the fifteen might go 1.5dB louder. That's inconsequential.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1011435' date='Nov 3 2010, 10:16 PM']if it was me I'd run a pair of 2x10s, the drivers vertically arrayed.[/quote]

You mean stacking the 2x10s on their narrow ends? Anyone ever done this and not worried a bit about how wobbly it looked?

[Rich]

I used to run 1x15 + 2x10. I swapped the 2x10 for a second 1x15 and now the sound is bigger, louder, more everything. Far better.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1012860' date='Nov 5 2010, 03:19 AM']You mean stacking the 2x10s on their narrow ends? Anyone ever done this and not worried a bit about how wobbly it looked?[/quote]
It depends on how skinny your 2x10 (or 2x12) cabs are. TC cabs appear to be rather skinny & yet designed to stand on their end where as MarkBass cabs are almost square (there's only @ 4" difference between W, D & H).

Some extra heavy duty velcro would see no movement in your cabs & amp on top & you could velcro to a Gramma Pad.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Rich' post='1012899' date='Nov 5 2010, 03:48 AM']I used to run 1x15 + 2x10. I swapped the 2x10 for a second 1x15 and now the sound is bigger, louder, more everything. Far better.[/quote]If you'd swapped the 1x15 for a second identical 2x10 you might have had the same result. Some mixed cab combinations work well together, some don't, and there's no way to predict it. Identical cabs will always get along well. OTOH some cabs are crap to begin with, so using two is still crap, just more of it.

[quote]You mean stacking the 2x10s on their narrow ends? Anyone ever done this and not worried a bit about how wobbly it looked?[/quote] Drivers should always be vertically arrayed. It might not have a conventional look, but what looks best and what sounds best seldom coincides. Manufacturers concentrate on creating what sells best, and that's what looks best.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Protium]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1013283' date='Nov 5 2010, 01:32 PM']If you'd swapped the 1x15 for a second identical 2x10 you might have had the same result. Some mixed cab combinations work well together, some don't, and there's no way to predict it. Identical cabs will always get along well. OTOH some cabs are crap to begin with, so using two is still crap, just more of it.

Drivers should always be vertically arrayed. It might not have a conventional look, but what looks best and what sounds best seldom coincides. Manufacturers concentrate on creating what sells best, and that's what looks best.[/quote]

Or because no one has space to store or transport a seven foot tall 8x10

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Protium' post='1013803' date='Nov 5 2010, 06:08 PM']Or because no one has space to store or transport a seven foot tall 8x10 [/quote]
Modern driver technology allows for a vertical 4x10 to perform as well as an 8x10. No one makes one because 'it wouldn't look right'. A pair of good vertical 2x10s is very much the same thing anyway, but note the comment by the previous poster being concerned about how they look without a word mentioned about how they'd sound.
Ask Alex about the sales resistance he gets because his cabs don't look like they came from the same cookie-cutter mold that most cabs have since 1959.

[ThomBassmonkey]

In all fairness, I don't think it's that a vertical 4x10 would look strange (though it would, but only because we're not used to them) but why make a vertical 4x10 which would stuggle to be transported when most people (myself included) would go for 2 2x10s (which I had until recently). Most of the people who have the right (i.e. big enough) transport to move cabs as tall as a vertical 4x10 would probably be using 8x10s or 2 ("normal") 4x10s anyway, given the choice.

Edited November 6, 2010 by ThomBassmonkey

[xgsjx]

But the downside to standard 4x10s & 8x10s is that the drivers are on the horizontal plane next to each other & frequencies could cancel each other out, causing a narrower dispertion.