Is Your Singer Not Up To It?

[webby]

Hi,

I began playing in a band a few months ago. No gigs yet, just rehearsals, and while I admit I'm some way off being 100% on the bass, I AM getting there and will get there with more practice.

However, I am less than impressed with the singer. He obviously thinks he's great, but he's not imo.

What to do?

Stick with it and soak up the experience and use it to improve? Or pack it in now while it's still early days?

I guess the same question applies if you've ever worked with a crap drummer/guitarist/keyboard player.

[Low End Bee]

Is he any good as a frontman?

[Bilbo]

Its what got me into jazz

Series of teenage rock bands w bad singers (no real prospect of 'making it') so

Got into listening to instrumental rock bands then

Got into fusion etc then

Got into Jazz

Now know loads of singers....

[wateroftyne]

IMO, it's something unique to singers and drummers. If they can't sing or drum, the band is doomed.

Joe Public will tolerate mediocrity when it comes to most other band members. Again, IMO.

Edited November 10, 2010 by wateroftyne

[xilddx]

[quote name='webby' post='1018489' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:30 AM']Hi,

I began playing in a band a few months ago. No gigs yet, just rehearsals, and while I admit I'm some way off being 100% on the bass, I AM getting there and will get there with more practice.

However, I am less than impressed with the singer. He obviously thinks he's great, but he's not imo.

What to do?

Stick with it and soak up the experience and use it to improve? Or pack it in now while it's still early days?

I guess the same question applies if you've ever worked with a crap drummer/guitarist/keyboard player.[/quote]
You don't say what level of experience the band is at, but you need to see what the gigs are like first. Record them and make sure the whole band know you are going to record it.

Most singers will not perform at gig strength in a rehearsal. They may be experimenting here and there, so the voice may swing off pitch a bit and have no conviction. But the main reason is that pop and rock singers are often not trained so they need to hold back so as not to wear out their voices in a three or four hour rehearsal. An untrained voice is usually not up to that level of stamina.

Other than that, it's possible he's just a self-deluded w***er with no talent. But give him a chance to do a few gigs first, then decide. It's all good experience unless you're getting very depressed about it.

[icastle]

[quote name='Johnston' post='1018512' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:41 AM']We used to get told the instruments were too loud couldn't hear the vocals. Tell the drummer to take it easy so you can all turn down etc etc.

then they heard the singer.

now I know why your loud [/quote]

A singer in a band I was with many years ago had a go at the guitarist for drowning him out.
With a totally deadpan face the guitarist listened to the rant and replied very calmly and quietly... "it was self defence"

[Wolverinebass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1018496' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:34 AM']IMO, it's something unique to singers and drummers. If they can't sing or drum, the band is doomed.

Joe Public will tolerate mediocrity when it comes to most other band members. Again, IMO.[/quote]


I agree completely with this. If your drummer or singer is gash, then you might as well not bother. I've been in bands where the singer has been mediocre and it's really showed and vice versa of course. However, by the same token if the guitarist was a bit mince and your rythym section are great the bloke will be able to get away with murder.

On a personal note, I can't deal with drummers that aren't good as you just can't experiment with the placing of beats and stuff if they're just going to play like a tool. It sucks all the energy out of my playing when someone plays completely straight all the time. I can only imagine it's what John Entwistle thought in 1982 when Kenney Jones was playing with the Who - "Soooo, Kenney, you're going to play 1-2-3 -hit snare for 2 hours? There was me thinking I was going to be able to have some fun on this tour...."

Sometimes you can get away with a mediocre singer if he/she has great stage presence. They may very well be holding back for a gig during rehearsal. If you're unhappy there is probably a very good reason though. If you're contibuting writing material for this band, how would you feel about this person singing your stuff? That is the acid test question for me and the minute you say "you're not" you might as well leave as it'll only start to annoy you more and every little thing the singer does wrong will build up and annoy you more and more over time. Especially if he has delusions of granduer.

[JTUK]

agree about singers and drummers, pretty much.

Ask this..how can that singer improve..? if he just doesn't have a voice or can carry a tune...that is pretty much it on a stick..!!

There is nowhere he can go.

unless he brings loads of women to the show..is a very good frontman etc etc tec ..

[thisnameistaken]

[webby]

Thanks for the input.

Well, I've only had 5 rehearsals with the band (drums, guitar, bass, singer). I don't know how long they've played together. I think since around april, with a couple of different bassists. I'm still a novice really. I don't know about him as a frontman, but I don't think he's holding anything back to be honest.

I think I should maybe stick with it for the experience as this is my first foray into playing bass with a band.

[xilddx]

[quote name='webby' post='1018675' date='Nov 10 2010, 12:38 PM']Thanks for the input.

Well, I've only had 5 rehearsals with the band (drums, guitar, bass, singer). I don't know how long they've played together. I think since around april, with a couple of different bassists. I'm still a novice really. I don't know about him as a frontman, but I don't think he's holding anything back to be honest.

I think I should maybe stick with it for the experience as this is my first foray into playing bass with a band.[/quote]

I agree you should stick with it. A problem with inexperienced bands sometimes is that the members don't give eachother a chance to become confident. Once the confidence kicks in then you can tell what's what more easily. Of course some people are never truly confident, but the may make up for that with talent.

Good luck.

[KERMITNT]

three singers that i had the chance to play with were awful thats a part that sucks you know when you r in rock band with voice singer must be the frontman an if is not the band is dust

three bands i left because of the singer that is not random that is a fact

[lojo]

If your all fairly new to being in band then give him a chance, singers, unlike most instrument players, wont have had hours spent jamming to records in their bedroom, so given time and a gig may come into his own

What would worry me though is the fact that he thinks he his great, which may mean he wont take any input from others or even seek to self assess his performance, in which case it might be doomed

It may also be a case of figuring out what songs suit the singer and what does not, although this may require some humble acceptance of reality

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='lojo' post='1018813' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:14 PM']What would worry me though is the fact that he thinks he his great,[/quote]

Name me one that doesn't

[Mog]

What exactly is the singer doing wrong? Covers or original? Have the band checked what key he is most comfortable in or his range. The guitars and bass may not suit him. Its very easy to point the finger and say someone else isn't up to scratch but the cause may be closer to home.

[webby]

[quote name='Mog' post='1018843' date='Nov 10 2010, 02:49 PM']What exactly is the singer doing wrong? Covers or original? Have the band checked what key he is most comfortable in or his range. The guitars and bass may not suit him. Its very easy to point the finger and say someone else isn't up to scratch but the cause may be closer to home.[/quote]

It's a U2 covers band. It's his band. He got it together cos he loves U2. We're playing everything tuned down to Eb.

[goblin]

Problem I had is that the singer in my old band was dire, but he thought he was God's gift, and he also formed the band. Therefore, he refused to take criticism, and even media reviews were coming out with stuff such as "The drummer and bassist were in a completely different league as the vocals seriously need addressing" but he still wasn't having it. It's a shame because he was a nice enough guy, and had just stepped back and accepted we needed a frontman, he could have been a much better guitarist as well. But over time he got worse and worse, until I was too embarassed to play with them, so I left.

I now know and work with miles better guitarists and singers now I'm available!

[Mog]

[quote name='webby' post='1018943' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:19 PM']It's a U2 covers band. It's his band. He got it together cos he loves U2. We're playing everything tuned down to Eb.[/quote]

Hmmmm, Is that you Adam?????
Fairly standard stuff then, I'd suggest you all talk it out. Point out where you feel he can improve. Lessons/training always help. I've always found its the later U2 songs that are trickiest to sing. Bono actually had a good voice IMO at one stage but it seemed to go in the mid 90's.

I reckon quitting should not be an option unless theres a falling out. If he refuses to work on his vocals then sod him.

[goblin]

[quote name='webby' post='1018943' date='Nov 10 2010, 04:19 PM']We're playing everything tuned down to Eb.[/quote]

We were doing that as well, and were still struggling. Confused my teacher a bit when i forgot to retune for a lesson

[JTUK]

I can recall a guy ages ago being in his first band and he sang flat a lot.. This was a confidence/nerve thing and he got much better after that.
If this is your first band..I would stick with it and use it as a learning curve...for the time being.

[mrtcat]

When we started my current band two years ago we took on a singer who had only ever done a bit of karaoke before. He was ok at best and rehearsals worried me a bit. In the end I started recording rehearsals on a Zoom mp3 recorder and emailing them out weekly to the rest of the band. It seemed to help everyone with their own playing but especially helped us pick out which songs would need to be played in a different key to help the singer. It also meant he could not hide away and had to confront his own ability and be honest about his limitations.

Before our first gig he was really nervous but it was like a total Jekyl and Hyde scenario when the lights went down. Two years on he's the star now. People regularly say he sounds like Rod Stewart and I'm so chuffed to be in a band with him.

As stated by others tho, the concern is his temperament. If he's prepared to take criticism onboard you stand a fair chance of seeing improvement. If not then forget it, you'll all be tripping over yourselves to push him off the front of the stage eventually.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Low End Bee' post='1018492' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:32 AM']Is he any good as a frontman?[/quote]
+1 to that.

In one of my previous bands, the singer wasn`t the best singer in the world - he could hold a tune no worries, but wasn`t too great at creating vocal melodies. He sounded very much like Mike Monroe from Hanoi Rocks. However, he was the best frontman you could think of, and would have the audience in the palm of his hand.

Many well known singers aren`t necessarily great singers - LeBon, Rotten, Jagger to name a few - but they all have that frontman aspect that makes them right for the job.

I`d say wait til you`ve done a few gigs with him to really get the measure of his suitability.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Lozz196

[thunderbird13]

just a thought but when you rehearse is the PA set up properly - its amazing what a bit of reverb help the vocals

[Chris2112]

The singer is the most noticeable member of the band on stage, and if they're not up to scratch it's a disaster. Especially since we live in the X Factor age and everyone is now a de facto expert on singing. It is also true that good singers are the hardest band members to find and generally the hardest to get on with, simply because they don't have the same musical bond as everyone else who likes messing around with their instruments etc etc.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='1018496' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:34 AM']IMO, it's something unique to singers and drummers. If they can't sing or drum, the band is doomed.

Joe Public will tolerate mediocrity when it comes to most other band members. Again, IMO.[/quote]
I'm 100% with WoT here. You can always hide or turn down a rhythm guitarist.

It depends on the genre too. It's worse with covers bands and some genres lend themselves more to performance than technical ability. A folk band or a loud rock band can have slightly wayward vocals but with soul music it doesn't work. I try to only work with good singers and drummers personally. I'm not afriad of working with musicians who are worse than me but generally I try and work with people who are of a similar or higher standard so I can push myself.