Is Your Singer Not Up To It?

[webby]

Here's a rehearsal clip:

[icastle]

[quote name='webby' post='1038896' date='Nov 27 2010, 03:55 PM']Here's a rehearsal clip:[/quote]

Flat with a capital F I'm afraid

[webby]

[quote name='icastle' post='1038909' date='Nov 27 2010, 04:06 PM']Flat with a capital F I'm afraid [/quote]


Indeed.

[icastle]

[quote name='webby' post='1038911' date='Nov 27 2010, 04:08 PM']Indeed.[/quote]

Is he like that across the entire range or is it just the key chosen to play the song in causing difficulties?

[ThomBassmonkey]

Has the singer seen that clip? What did he say if so? It's not really avoidable that he's pretty badly out of key.

It does sound like it could be that he's not really going for it though, maybe he's still unsure of his voice if it's his first band too. You should do another video in the same way, but tell everyone to imagine it's a gig, so get everyone to dance about a bit and put on their gurns, then he might get into it a bit more and go for it a bit better.

If he's in total denial and thinks he's brilliant after hearing that, get shot of him. He's clearly not very good if that's his best effort and it'll just make you look bad if you're part of "that crap U2 covers band" (which is what people will think, most people will judge based purely on the vocals).

[webby]

There are 2 other clips. Most are played tuned down to Eb, but that one was played in an even lower key.

[KK Jale]

He's not great, but mostly he just can't handle that key. Not many could.

IMO you shouldn't dream of going on stage with that song in Bb. Rehearse it right down in G or even F, and record it again, and compare.

If it's better, then give him a chance and go ahead and have fun and do a few shows and get some experience. Many bands implode after three gigs anyway so you don't have to worry about commitment...

[webby]

[quote name='KK Jale' post='1038959' date='Nov 27 2010, 04:50 PM']He's not great, but mostly he just can't handle that key. Not many could.

IMO you shouldn't dream of going on stage with that song in Bb. Rehearse it right down in G or even F, and record it again, and compare.

If it's better, then give him a chance and go ahead and have fun and do a few shows and get some experience. Many bands implode after three gigs anyway so you don't have to worry about commitment...[/quote]


But it's a U2 tribute act. We'd have to then do everything lower keys, and some, if not most, of the songs would suffer by doing that.


p.s, the original is in C# !!

Edited November 27, 2010 by webby

[lojo]

[quote name='webby' post='1038979' date='Nov 27 2010, 04:59 PM']But it's a U2 tribute act. We'd have to then do everything lower keys, and some, if not most, of the songs would suffer by doing that.


p.s, the original is in C# !![/quote]


To be honest, its gonna be difficult being a tribute act with that guy fronting, you'll have to all d tune or something, to try to keep the guitar playing what he should

If your keen to give it a go with this singer, perhaps find some songs that suit his voice regardless if they are U2 or something else, and have pop at gigging a varied basic covers set, then if perhaps you can evolve from there

[hitchy64]

O dear. You are the weekest link, by by!!

[webby]

[quote name='hitchy64' post='1039119' date='Nov 27 2010, 06:35 PM']O dear. You are the weekest link, by by!![/quote]

Sorry, me? Or the singer? Just checking.

At the end of the day, it's the singer's band, he got it together as far as I know.

[SteveO]

Looking at that clip the first thing that springs to mind is whether the singer can hear himself. Some notes are in key, some are wandering a lot. Our front-girl was pretty hit and miss until we worked out that she had crap monitoring and was struggling to hear herself.

The second thing that springs to mind is how he's the only one who seems to care about the music. Get up, get in there, get a bit of eye contact with each other and make it look as if you are loving every second of it. Its amazing how much better everyone plays when there's a buzz going on. Sitting at the back looking bored is not going to inspire anyone. This is not personal to you btw, your drummer looks like he's thinking of last nights eastenders and the guitarist seems to be wondering if he's brought enough fx.

Anyway, hopefully he will get a wake up call from seeing that, realise that there is a major problem and work on his pitch training.

[webby]

[quote name='SteveO' post='1039193' date='Nov 27 2010, 07:29 PM']Looking at that clip the first thing that springs to mind is whether the singer can hear himself. Some notes are in key, some are wandering a lot. Our front-girl was pretty hit and miss until we worked out that she had crap monitoring and was struggling to hear herself.

The second thing that springs to mind is how he's the only one who seems to care about the music. Get up, get in there, get a bit of eye contact with each other and make it look as if you are loving every second of it. Its amazing how much better everyone plays when there's a buzz going on. Sitting at the back looking bored is not going to inspire anyone. This is not personal to you btw, your drummer looks like he's thinking of last nights eastenders and the guitarist seems to be wondering if he's brought enough fx.

Anyway, hopefully he will get a wake up call from seeing that, realise that there is a major problem and work on his pitch training.[/quote]

It's funny, we video'd quite a few songs, and my back was killing me, so i sat down for that one as it was a bit of a laid back song, and that's the one that gets put up on YT!!

But, you may well be right about the monitoring. The sound was sh*t that night.

Edited November 27, 2010 by webby

[kirk]

In my experience playing in and watching bands are such subjective and complex experiences that there are few hard and fast rules that one can attach to them. Whereas I can certainly see where some other people in the thread are coming from when they say a bad drummer or singer inevitably ruins a band, I don't agree; in fact I'm more likely to take a dislike to bands that are overly muso than to ones that are made up of less than able musicians. This does of course depend to an extent on the type of music that's being played (or attempted).

The rules do change when it comes to covers bands though! Unless you're setting out to be some kind of comedy act (and I doubt this is the case) you need to be competent and able to do the original material justice. And even though Bono is by no means a great singer, the last time I checked (about 1994?) he could carry a tune.

If you're enjoying it and you all get along then why not stick with it and see where it goes? If by the time you get to thinking about playing out he still sucks then you can sack it off.

Anyway, if he comes across this thread the decision will prolly be made for you!

[JTUK]

Only played the 1st verse and chorus and I was expecting worse.

The general tone quality of his voice isn't bad...and if he could get the pitch right would be ok to listen to.
This is important as some voices are 'interesting'enough and some never ever will be..
He isn't massively off-key from what I listened to, but he is not on it either.
If this is a new band and the experience levels are about the same then I would expect the band to stick at this and see if he improves.
My feeling is that, atm, he isn't good enough but if he can get past these wobbles, then he may be ok. It may well be a confidence thing, mostly.

I don't think he or the band will get that much work as a U2 tribute band, but he may be ok on other covers if his confidence rises
and he can pitch better. If it doesn't and he can't, there is no way forward

[Mog]

there is an ok voice in there, its just held back by a very narrow range. i'm not even sure if he has a whole octave in him from what i've heard. lessons are a must for the lad.

[webby]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1039594' date='Nov 28 2010, 07:34 AM']I don't think he or the band will get that much work as a U2 tribute band[/quote]
My confidence needs a lift after that!

[Mog]

i wouldnt worry too much, our singer aint all that neither and we get more than enough gigs. like i said earlier, the voice is there. he just needs to expand his range. singers need to practice too.

[Bassassin]

Just had a listen, and to me it sounds like his problem's control rather than lack of range - he can hit the notes, just not every time. He needs some lessons, and some structured practice.

He does have a decent voice & the rest of the band are on the case. If you (as a band) intend gigging, you will have to learn to be very self-critical and this is as good a place as any to start. I wouldn't be too bothered about rocking the boat or denting his ego either - if you were playing bum notes in every bar, I'm sure somebody would be quick enough to point it out to you.

Jon.

[JTUK]

[quote name='webby' post='1039843' date='Nov 28 2010, 12:34 PM']My confidence needs a lift after that! [/quote]


ok...I'll rephase that, better. Bono, like him or not, has a decent voice and they are songs that are made for him, of course.
His songs, his keys, his chosen vocal line which ALL suits him and to hardly any disadvantage at all...he may have spot tuned it in the studio as well, over a zillion takes etc etc
The vocalist is your central point and connection to the audience and the band music is secondary . If the gtr can make a passable nod to the Edge's sound and playing, that is what most will concentrate on after the vocals. The gtr is hamstrung if he has to play out of key....but that itself may or may not be something you can get around.

Dropping the songs by 2 tones may well undo them as versions...that remains to be seen, but you will stand or fall on the success of the singer to be able cut it.

I don't think he is too bad..in that I think he lacks confidence rather than a decent vocal sound...if he can up his game by whatever means, then you may then be in business.

Us musos can be a picky bunch and hard to please, so I was commenting more on that aspect really.
call it arrogance or whatever, but I KNOW that if our band can be pleased with a version, the opinions of the punters/audience is virtually a given. The only thing they can have to complain about is that they just don't like that tune...which I can live with, they wouldn't be able to say it wasn't well done...in 99% of cases.

In rehearsal, I don't care how rough it may have sounded and what means we had to go to to achieve the decent end result, but the song needs to work and connect when done live.. that is the final arbiter..fave song and girlfriends love song etc etc ..all out of the window if it sucks when you play it...and then it doesn't make it into the set.

Your limitation is that as a U2 cover band...you can't pick anything but a U2 song and that may just not suit his voice the most favourably.

[webby]

[quote name='JTUK' post='1040030' date='Nov 28 2010, 03:52 PM']ok...I'll rephase that, better. Bono, like him or not, has a decent voice and they are songs that are made for him, of course.
His songs, his keys, his chosen vocal line which ALL suits him and to hardly any disadvantage at all...he may have spot tuned it in the studio as well, over a zillion takes etc etc
The vocalist is your central point and connection to the audience and the band music is secondary . If the gtr can make a passable nod to the Edge's sound and playing, that is what most will concentrate on after the vocals. The gtr is hamstrung if he has to play out of key....but that itself may or may not be something you can get around.

Dropping the songs by 2 tones may well undo them as versions...that remains to be seen, but you will stand or fall on the success of the singer to be able cut it.

I don't think he is too bad..in that I think he lacks confidence rather than a decent vocal sound...if he can up his game by whatever means, then you may then be in business.

Us musos can be a picky bunch and hard to please, so I was commenting more on that aspect really.
call it arrogance or whatever, but I KNOW that if our band can be pleased with a version, the opinions of the punters/audience is virtually a given. The only thing they can have to complain about is that they just don't like that tune...which I can live with, they wouldn't be able to say it wasn't well done...in 99% of cases.

In rehearsal, I don't care how rough it may have sounded and what means we had to go to to achieve the decent end result, but the song needs to work and connect when done live.. that is the final arbiter..fave song and girlfriends love song etc etc ..all out of the window if it sucks when you play it...and then it doesn't make it into the set.

Your limitation is that as a U2 cover band...you can't pick anything but a U2 song and that may just not suit his voice the most favourably.[/quote]

All fair comment mate, and I agree.

However, the fact that it's a U2 act is down to him as he's a U2 fan, as I am too, and that's what he wanted to do. I only joined about 6 weeks ago. We have a gig in early Jan. I don't think we're ready to take bookings yet, and the next few weeks are a busy time for everyone. That and any bad weather that comes our way may result in a rehearsal or 2 being cancelled.

[Jam]

Initially the singer in my band was a bit iffy, but that was only because he needed practice and a bit of confidence. Now he is a fantastic frontman, he wobbles now and then (don't we all!) but give the guy a chance, you never know what he might turn into!

[Marvin]

Are you enjoying it?
If so, I'd keep going and see how things pan out.

[GrayBoy]

Hi All, thought I'd chip in - 'Edge' here!

First off, can see where Webby is coming from. He's not the greatest singer in the world, but he doesn't really act like it either. I've definitely seen worse singers with a worse attitude. He's a pretty good frontman who will easily banter with the audience in a good natured way even he cops some stick for his singing. He was in quite a successful band in the midlands a few years ago doing the same thing (under the same name) and he often does guest spots in Classic Rock/Blues bands in the Bourenmouth/Poole area. Not perfect, but when everyone is wasted at 10pm and wants to shout along to Streets then we'd probably get away with it. We're not charging people £15 for a show - we want to make a noise in a pub.

We've been practising since May and Webby is our third bassist. He's doing a good job and we're happy how he's doing. He's getting there with the songs we're trying and he'll give songs a go he's not practised so much and he pulls them off pretty well. A few more practices and jobs a goodun.

The aim has always been to get out gigging asap - we had hoped for some beer festivals or pub gardens in the summer. Obviously with our bassist leaving we had to start from scratch with Webby, but at the rate he was going we were confident the new year was a good bet. I put the vids up on YouTube so bookers could have a look at us before getting us in and the first one I tried (at a club in Bournemouth) booked us in for a Friday night. They put a lot of bands on so maybe they consider anything, but we were expecting either a support slot or a Monday or Sunday night playing to any friends that could be bothered to come out. So the vids can't be that bad.

I agree with the comment that as Musos we're probably a bit too critical, and also recognise that we're not that great either, but we were always meant to be a pub band, knocking out U2 songs - hence the name - as opposed to a polished, backing track/look a like type band. It's supposed to be a laugh and any cash we get is by the by. If I were going for a respectable outfit and charging for it, I wouldn't be doing covers.

Just from my own point of view, despite our flaws, I think it's worth sticking with. I've been looking to get out gigging for over a year and this has looked the best bet. I really don't want to play Blues, Classic Rock or Metal. I'm not a very good guitarist (in the video, I'm not checking my FX as one post suggested - I'm looking at my fingers!) and to be sole guitar in a band with riffs I can cope with is a big plus. I wasn't even a U2 fan when I started. I downloaded some tracks and learnt them from scratch. Apart from the rehearsals which have happened on average every fortnight since May at a fiver a pop, I've spent loads of cash on guitars, effects, amps as well as countless hours poring over tab practising, looking at dvds, reading forums on delay settings and twiddling knobs. So you could say I'm somewhat invested! However, now I'm a U2 fan - take that whichever way you like. Therefore...

[quote]Stick with it and soak up the experience and use it to improve?[/quote]



Please don't do this. We want to get out gigging not spend another 8 months fiddling about only for you to realise that actually you can't get past the singing issue and leave us back where we were in September. This is costing us time and money. We were happy to give you a go, but it seems like it'd be better to let us find someone who recognises the band for what it is and let us get on with it.

That said, anyone fancy it? Will save me bumping this thread:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=84114"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=84114[/url]

[leschirons]

My opinion, for what it's worth is that your vocalist can get there with a little bit of work. If, as you say, he connects with the audience, you are not going out as an out and out trib band, but a pub band doing possibly only, or a majority of U2 numbers, I think you should all stick with it. Musically, it works very well.

He may be a huge U2 fan but maybe he's not actually sung any of these songs in previous bands. Like him or not, Bono's a hard act to follow, but not impossible. It's only anal musos that are going to smirk about a song being a semitone or two down. Fair enough if you're charging £25 for a trib ticket, but you're not.

He's actually got some quality to his voice on lower registers with a nicely controlled vibrato. All he needs is to go for it with confidence on this stuff. If you have to change keys, it doesn't necessarily mean that you'll kill the song due to not having use of open strings etc on guitar. I used to do some Police stuff in another band. The guitarist would use a capo when we needed to change keys due to vocals. Won't work 100% of the time but it's another weapon in the arsenal.

Most pub punters will enjoy the performance due to the songs you're playing. And of course, no one wants 8 months of hard work down the pan.